[keyser soze]

I have hot if I want it (fogwash) but having shattered glass with it I rarely switch it on. I think additives help but don't perform miracles. I did a big first clean the other day, spent a long time on it and double rinsed/duble scrubbed - looked fantastic, customer was over the moon ........................... then I moved on to the insides, rubbish I thought.

i use to use hot but ditched the lpg boiler i didn't like it . i had one burst on me and another burst into flames . I'm thinking of an immersion heater for this winter . 2 reasons when i heat the water it will act like a rad and keep it all frost free and secondly the safety aspect

[8weekly]

I've never cleaned my tanks in eight years  Never washed a brush either.

Could explain your poor results? 

[Dave Willis]

Hardly 

[SeanK]

Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives  do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.

You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?

[Dave Willis]

I've never had a complaint in eight years, you don't seem capable of grasping what I've written.

[keyser soze]

Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives  do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.

You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?

ignorance is bliss . why not try it before going into one

[SeanK]

I've never had a complaint in eight years, you don't seem capable of grasping what I've written.

So you haven't had a complaint therefore I can assume you haven't lost a single customer either , I understand exactly what you are
saying which is you are trying to fix something that isn't broken.

[chris turner]

Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives  do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.

You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?

Oh please seank, reading your views on this subject is so frustrating.
We live in a very fast moving generation where people are always seeking more, to do better and to be better.
If we all shared your views then wfp would never have come on as far as it has today.
It is where it is through guys like Mr Willis and others, trying things out of the norm, pushing the boundaries and sharing there experiences. To criticise him for that is low.
Because of Dave iv been using gg4 in my tank recently and I like the results. Glass is noticeably shinier, brush glides better. That is enough in itself to warrent using gg4 because its better, if only slightly, then using pure alone.

[SeanK]

Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives  do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.

You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?

ignorance is bliss . why not try it before going into one

Have tried both it and Vision not because I thought it would clean better but that it might make the water more gloopy
and help with problem openers.
Failed on all scores even with higher concentrations than I would have been comfortable using for fear of spotting.

[Dave Willis]

I'm always trying to get better results - most of us do that's why we try different brushes, vision or whatever - always looking to make the job easier - the results better. Customers are happy it seems - I'm not. 

[keyser soze]

Nope, I don't think anything works miracles. I am interested in changing the properties of pure a little though. Doesn't matter if nothing works because pure on its own is adequate (just). I've always said wfp with pure is a poor method of cleaning, perfect results are very rare and first cleans can be a lottery. Grease on glass from barbecues doesn't shift if you look closely and pollen marks are hopeless. If you clean the insides too it doesn't take long to realise pure water cleaning isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So, if I can get one more step to perfection cheaply I don't mind playing about with stuff. Also these additives  do actually make a difference to the way the water behaves even at such small doses - you'd be surprised. A lot of it is in the users head I'm sure but not all.

You have just confirmed what I said which is you lack confidence in the method, in all the years I have been using wfp with cold pure I can honestly say Iv never had a quality problem that wasn't down to a problem frame or me just being a little too splash and dash.
How many complaints did you get Dave and how much custom did you lose before you decided that an additive was needed ?
I assume your reputation wasn't the best going by the results you where getting before the additive days has this recovered
any ?

ignorance is bliss . why not try it before going into one

Have tried both it and Vision not because I thought it would clean better but that it might make the water more gloopy
and help with problem openers.
Failed on all scores even with higher concentrations than I would have been comfortable using for fear of spotting.

i feared it would spot tbh thats why  i tried it on a round i knew i could check the results , now i have complete trust in the product

[ChumBucket]

en Joy di' vision as love will tear you apart.

[Phil J]

Can gg3/4 be used with the injector? Bought one for vision and it works  a treat.
Thanks, Phil.

[Smudger]

With all your experience seank I would have thought you would have at least noticed by now that on many surfaces after using pure water it dries dull, some surfaces are more apparent than others.

Over the years, I had several customers comment ( not complain ) that the windows didn't have that zing they used to have, I couldn't agree the time understand it, but checking out these windows and frames closely showed that the upvc had definitely got a lustre finish and not glossy - the glass was great.
These frames I treated like a first clean with a g101 solution and pure water clean the frames dried and shone ( just like a first clean!!) then up popped vision, brill, I added it to the pure, yes the results are subtle but they were there, since that day not one single customer ( and I have a few ) has ever said the Windows have lost that bright zing of the first clean

Of course, you can argue it's just coinsidence, it's  something to boost my confidence, I don't really know or understand how WFP works, but the science is clear, water (even pure) can only do so much, and to have, embrace  and use pure water on steroids is the right way forward.

To me it sounds like you may have a few confidence problems with respect to cleaning and WFP, I Could be wrong but that's just the way you come across..

Darran

[chris turner]

With all your experience seank I would have thought you would have at least noticed by now that on many surfaces after using pure water it dries dull, some surfaces are more apparent than others.

Over the years, I had several customers comment ( not complain ) that the windows didn't have that zing they used to have, I couldn't agree the time understand it, but checking out these windows and frames closely showed that the upvc had definitely got a lustre finish and not glossy - the glass was great.
These frames I treated like a first clean with a g101 solution and pure water clean the frames dried and shone ( just like a first clean!!) then up popped vision, brill, I added it to the pure, yes the results are subtle but they were there, since that day not one single customer ( and I have a few ) has ever said the Windows have lost that bright zing of the first clean

Of course, you can argue it's just coinsidence, it's  something to boost my confidence, I don't really know or understand how WFP works, but the science is clear, water (even pure) can only do so much, and to have, embrace  and use pure water on steroids is the right way forward.

To me it sounds like you may have a few confidence problems with respect to cleaning and WFP, I Could be wrong but that's just the way you come across..

Darran

Good post..

[Jonny 87]

Seank you used to do my head in when I was part of the vision team. 

Now I just find it quite funny to be honest, and at least now I don't have to worry about sounding professional in my answers (not that I managed that anyway). 

You say that using additives  is pointless because they are used in such a small amount that it has no effect what so ever...........

That can be proved wrong straight away by anyone who has tried vision. The first thing you notice is the glide of the brush head on the glass. 

Now if 1mill per 100 litres of pure can make the bristles glide more on a surface, it would be reasonable to deduce that it's also possible that an additive at that ratio could also help with the clean or shine?

Surely your not that narrow minded?

[Dave Willis]

You and me should go into business Johnny - ever fancied selling additives?

[Jonny 87]

You and me should go into business Johnny - ever fancied selling additives?

 

It's too much fun being on this side of the glass.

Kempy is the man now.

He's doing a grand job.

[Dave Willis]

Shame, I always thought you were the sensible one. 

[Jonny 87]

Shame, I always thought you were the sensible one. 

You must be joking.

Wife says I'm as mad as a bag of frogs. I just type well.