[Perfect Windows]

As I've now been on here for five years, I thought I'd pop an idea out for discussion.

The way I've used this forum has changed over the years.

At first, I read through dozens of pages of posts looking for people who made sense. Then I searched through all of their posts for their ideas of how to run a window cleaning business.  I noted everything that appeared to make sense and that might make my business work.  I still have the notes - about forty pages of them.  Sometimes they contradicted one another and I had to make a choice.  The initial success of my business relied on people on here (some since gone) and, for that, I thank them.

Then, I started my business and my use of the forum changed.  I had a way that I did things that I felt was the right way, even though it was based on what other people had written on here.  However, I decided to take the approach of questioning and debating then, if the answers made sense, changing what we did. 

Some of them didn't work out.  Someone (now gone) was very persuasive on the subject of Vikan brushes (aka bricks).  I changed  and thought things were better then, when I went back, I realised that I'd been fooling myself.  I also made what I now consider to be a foolish (and very expensive) foray into gutter vacuuming (others will no doubt disagree).

Some did work out - rinsing on the glass made a big difference to the health of my shoulders and I thank the people who brought it to my attention.

Some of the discussions around these subjects were quite heated but they always ended with a decision, one way or another, often a decision that other people had better ideas than I could muster, so I changed how we worked.  I tried to debate and even argue with an open mind.

Again (I can't do it enough), I thank everyone who has improved my business through suggestions and comments on here.  Many of them I couldn't have come up with given a year of thought.  Many of those who helped me out know who they are.  Thanks to all the ones I haven't been able to thank personally.

Hopefully, some of the discussions about how I did things led to help flowing the other way; it'd be nice to know that other people benefited, however little.

So, that's one way to use this forum and it's one that's made me more successful than I would ever have dared to hope for.

My question:  Is this a more effective way to use the forum than just to tell other people who do things differently from you that they are idiots, bullsh!tters or liars?

Vin

[ChumBucket]

I would say that you use the forum in both of the ways that you describe. Your "know it all" approach to what you refer to as being "forensic debate" is irritating beyond belief! If the other debater disagrees then you tend to pull the old "look at my success card" . I can only hope for your sake that you are not as annoying in real life to the point where other human beings in your company lose the will to live!

Just being honest

[Matt.]

I suppose what you have done is good, and good luck as always.......

But

For me the forum is just something I enjoy reading and yes pick up some ideas on the way of course, share experiences and just pass on info to those that want it.

There is always goin to be someone sat at home earning £80 a week and claiming to be earning millions, and trying to knock anyone or thinks they know better,..... I mean  I can't remember which numpty wrote it the other day on He mans post " anyone who works through the night is desperate " haha
I do this all the time and I am not desperate, sometimes it's the only way we can keep up with the work load or jobs need doing out of hours,

Just another one to add to the list....... They know nothin

I been on here about 2 years, and think it is a sound little set up for those that want/ are happy to share bits.

I don't come on here to find or go up against other people who are in the same industry, I can't be bothered am to busy 

If I come across someone who I find repeatedly slates every idea or knows better I simply don't partake in any other there conversations or topics

[Smudger]

A bit harsh chummy.

I see the main problem being we all forget that there is a human being at the other end, it's like road rage, your in a safe bubble and can rage away in safety.

It's terribly difficult to express feelings, nuances and general jist of what you would like to say, this leads to people taking stuff the wrong way.

Lastly, as small businesses it can be lonely and leads you to believe that what you do this the greatest thing sliced bread and no body in the world ( never mind down the road ) so being subjective and understanding if difficult.
Generally the forum is beneficial - just need to make your own mind up who's worth taking notice of..

Darran

[AuRavelling79]

It's simply a forum at the end of the day. But folk on here have helped me no end. Just sort the wheat from the chaff. Some ideas are very good indeed and work for most; some work for the particular set of circumstances of the poster's situation. Others are dumb.

No-one of us is the best poster or the worst. We all have different takes, different days, different moods.

Sometimes I'm playful and daft. But I try to take a balanced view. I don't like seeing people taken for a ride by money-grabbing "cure-alls" and try to look out for the inexperienced. I respect those who have built better, more productive and profitable rounds but am wary of those that put money and work at the top of their reason for living. I respect those who are happy to plod along on part time pay but less so those who could do better by being a bit more sensible and firmer with their customers.

But it's all subjective isn't it?

[SeanK]

I think the forum has always been the same, I mean how much helpful advice can you give on the subject of
cleaning windows until each subject has been done to death.
I use the forum as a way of having a natter with guys who do the same thing as me for a living, but the wind ups, arguments
and the nonsense all help to make it what it is.

And every so often you get to read a post like the one above, excellent.

[Cookie]

The forum has been a great help to me I was a 'lurker' to start of with whilst I was thinking about going into window cleaning but I have based all my equipment purchases and some of my business strategy (ie; canvassing rather than leafleting etc... etc...) on what I've found on here.

[Phil J]

I think we should share our ideas, good  and bad. After all we are all in the same boat. Some people employing several, other's operating as one man bands for a easy lifestyle. There are millions of windows out there in need of cleaning. There is enough work for everybody and we need to educate each other and raise standards across the industry. This forum is a fantastic tool, especially when you are losing your mojo  and need a lift. Keep the faith 

[Mick Kent]

But Vin!! Whats better leaflets or canvassing?? 

[Rich Wilts]

I would say that you use the forum in both of the ways that you describe. Your "know it all" approach to what you refer to as being "forensic debate" is irritating beyond belief! If the other debater disagrees then you tend to pull the old "look at my success card" . I can only hope for your sake that you are not as annoying in real life to the point where other human beings in your company lose the will to live!

Just being honest

 

[Rich Wilts]

For a lot of guys on here they use the forum to vent their frustrations, you seem frustrated all the time, perhaps you're not using the forum in the manner that is most beneficial for you.

[rosskesava]

It's simple. Just read what is posted and if it seems a good idea give it a go or at least keep it in mind for when that situations crops up.

As for the wally's, braggers, £500 pound a day merchants, 3 minutes a house including driving time, etc, they add spice and entertainment value.

As for those heated debates, more please. People watch clap trap on tv like East Enders etc and the rest of the trash for entertainment then complain when it happens for real on here.

[Frankybadboy]

Can't believe anyone would read what I post or take advice lol

[Spruce]

I'm pinching this from Darran

Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great

Vin, I have always respected your take on business and you have been an inspiration to me to keep going.  As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and the results of your business speak for themselves. So I can say personally that I have much to thank you for.

On of the things that I will never forget is your take on the 'credit crunch' of 2008. It wasn't you who caused it, so get on and work around it. There is always a group of people who profit from a downturn in the economy - go find them as customers. At the tail end of the day history showed that the 'credit crunch' was more media hype than anything. We lost a few customers as a direct result of it, but we gained far more at the same time.

There was another time when you offered to help someone from south London with a day out to show him the window cleaning ropes. Despite encouragement from a few of us he felt it was too far to travel and so, as I understand it, he past up the offer. I often wonder if that moment was a lost opportunity, an open door, that that newbie lost out on forever. Was that the pivotal moment that meant the difference between success and failure?

Over the years there have been a lot of good people on here who are no longer posters. The forum isn't a better place without them. I learnt a lot from  many of them as well in those early wfp days.

You've had the balls to franchise; one day I'm going to have to grow some balls and do the same thing.

[Plankton]

A bit harsh chummy.

I see the main problem being we all forget that there is a human being at the other end, it's like road rage, your in a safe bubble and can rage away in safety.

It's terribly difficult to express feelings, nuances and general jist of what you would like to say, this leads to people taking stuff the wrong way.

Lastly, as small businesses it can be lonely and leads you to believe that what you do this the greatest thing sliced bread and no body in the world ( never mind down the road ) so being subjective and understanding if difficult.
Generally the forum is beneficial - just need to make your own mind up who's worth taking notice of..

Darran

What he said!

[Walter Mitty]

As I've now been on here for five years, I thought I'd pop an idea out for discussion.

The way I've used this forum has changed over the years.

At first, I read through dozens of pages of posts looking for people who made sense. Then I searched through all of their posts for their ideas of how to run a window cleaning business.  I noted everything that appeared to make sense and that might make my business work.  I still have the notes - about forty pages of them.  Sometimes they contradicted one another and I had to make a choice.  The initial success of my business relied on people on here (some since gone) and, for that, I thank them.

Then, I started my business and my use of the forum changed.  I had a way that I did things that I felt was the right way, even though it was based on what other people had written on here.  However, I decided to take the approach of questioning and debating then, if the answers made sense, changing what we did. 

Some of them didn't work out.  Someone (now gone) was very persuasive on the subject of Vikan brushes (aka bricks).  I changed  and thought things were better then, when I went back, I realised that I'd been fooling myself.  I also made what I now consider to be a foolish (and very expensive) foray into gutter vacuuming (others will no doubt disagree).

Some did work out - rinsing on the glass made a big difference to the health of my shoulders and I thank the people who brought it to my attention.

Some of the discussions around these subjects were quite heated but they always ended with a decision, one way or another, often a decision that other people had better ideas than I could muster, so I changed how we worked.  I tried to debate and even argue with an open mind.

Again (I can't do it enough), I thank everyone who has improved my business through suggestions and comments on here.  Many of them I couldn't have come up with given a year of thought.  Many of those who helped me out know who they are.  Thanks to all the ones I haven't been able to thank personally.

Hopefully, some of the discussions about how I did things led to help flowing the other way; it'd be nice to know that other people benefited, however little.

So, that's one way to use this forum and it's one that's made me more successful than I would ever have dared to hope for.

My question:  Is this a more effective way to use the forum than just to tell other people who do things differently from you that they are idiots, bullsh!tters or liars?

Vin

I only use the forum to insult people - but I do it in alphabetical order.  Anyone who uses the forum differently is an idiot.
I'm only up to "D" so your time is coming eventualy.

[Dave Willis]

Actually, there's more than two ways to use the forum. Posting crummy videos of render cleaning is popular with some, whilst advertising your products without paying is a popular pastime too. 
Don't forget driving people to your website, recruitment to your training courses is another way too.
Personally I prefer to just take the pee.

[C o z y]

Walter, I think you missed me    When's my turn? Hate missing out. 

[LT carpet cleaning]

It's simple. Just read what is posted and if it seems a good idea give it a go or at least keep it in mind for when that situations crops up.

As for the wally's, braggers, £500 pound a day merchants, 3 minutes a house including driving time, people so desperate for money they work through the night and claim it's because they are so busy, etc, they add spice and entertainment value.

As for those heated debates, more please. People watch clap trap on tv like East Enders etc and the rest of the trash for entertainment then complain when it happens for real on here.

FTFY

[Ian101]

5 years in with window cleaning and there is only so much you can learn from this board and probably after 3 months you have probably extracted as much as you can from the posts.

after that its all about getting out there and doing it consistently on a day to day basis.

Ive been taking advice via phone calls and emails over 2015 from 2 members on here who have much bigger businesses than mine - hugely grateful to these 2 guys who have taken the time to help me (they know who they are).

I try to help newbies these days as much as I can so kinda paying it forward.