[Smudger]

Going to build some trolley systems for a contract,  they will be 110 Litres capacity, I didn't really want to put a controller on because I think they will be exposed and get damaged.

For those who run flat out with no controller I know you can tee off the water before and after the pump so when the tap is off at the brush the water just loops round, of you can ' return to tank '

If I set up as above do you lose flow to the brush head as surely some of the flow loops or returns to tank ? So if my pump was 5 litres a min what would I get to the brush ? 50%  - so 2.5 litres per min or more ?

Thanks for your input and experience

Darran

[M & C Window Cleaning]

A friend of mine built his own 60 ltr trolley and originally used a flow controller. However, when it burnt out he just removed it and relied on the built in pressure switch on the pump. To the best of my knowledge he's been running it for over a year and has had no trouble with the built in pressure switch on the pump. I'm not sure what pump he is using though. All I know for certain, is it's not the Sureflo. He has recently made another one for his son and set it up the same way with no problems so far.

[Small but perfectley formed]

I think it would be to much flow use loads of water and the force would spray water all over.

[SeanK]

Tosh has a post on how to build a cheap flow controller, that what I use on mine and it works a treat.
 

[Don Kee]

Its basically the same principle as using two reels from one pump (one feed to pole, one feed back to barrel/tank) so you would lose flow yes.
Use an adjustable tap, like on a 4040 and you shoukd be able to set an optimum ratio for yourself, i.e 60/40, pump to tank

That or build one of these...
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=192847.0

[Spruce]

Darran
Peter Fogwill used to use that arrangement. He fitted a T piece after the pump. First branch went to the hose reel and the second branch to a ball valve that the operator could open and close to control the flow to the brush. He the looped this back into the pump inlet with another T piece.

The pump and this arrangement was in an enclosure, so he had an on/off toggle switch for the pump. The handle for the ball valve was mounted outside the box so the operator could control the flow.



Unfortunately I couldn't get the system to work for me and eventually bought a controller.

[Smudger]

Cheers for the input,

Believe me the flow will never be too much, concerns are not enough

Yes I could rely on the in built pressure switch, I've got about 3 weeks testing period so I could build it without the loop then introduce it if required, I can see the need for the tap/valve really that acts like a manual flow controller. 

The pumps in mind are 3.5 lpm because they are less bulky than shurflo models and quite frankly will be used for four days every six months

Darran

[Matt.]

I will speak to the lad who uses my trolley, he put a replacement pump on it a few months back, really small in size and only cost £15 - £20 not to sure, he got it off eBay. He runs the trolley using a metal switch he screwed into the frame.

[Don Kee]

http://www.johnhewitt.com/pumps.htm


Cheap pumps, decent enough for the usage you say you'll do
Just fit a toggle on off switch on the positive...

[chris turner]

You could wire a relay onto the pump to protect the pumps internal pressure switch.
I worked for a couple of months with no flow controller using aquatap, it killed the pressure switch very quickly indeed.
The relay sorted this and is very cheap and easy to install.
Also it's very small so easy to protect and at £2 a go, cheap to replace if damaged.

[Smudger]

Electrics is not my thing, usually end up getting a belt of something.

I like the sound of the relay - could you be kind enough to post a link to one for me

I'm starting with pumps off eBay at £15 quid each, I'll progress to Mr  hewitts if these prove totally inadequate for the job

Darran

[Spruce]

Cheers for the input,

Believe me the flow will never be too much, concerns are not enough

Yes I could rely on the in built pressure switch, I've got about 3 weeks testing period so I could build it without the loop then introduce it if required, I can see the need for the tap/valve really that acts like a manual flow controller. 

The pumps in mind are 3.5 lpm because they are less bulky than shurflo models and quite frankly will be used for four days every six months

Darran

In the days before the first Varistream controller was marketed, Williamson pumps suggested a 3.8 liter 100psi pump to replace the 5.2 liter 65psi Shurflo pump I was using due to pressure switch failures.

10 years later that Shurflo pump is still in daily operation, but we still had the problem of cycling, although not quite as much. We were using 1/2" garden hose and 3mm jets in those days before minibore became available to us wfpers.

As per chris turner's post, Peter Fogwill also had a wiring diagram up somewhere for a HD 12v relay.



He suggested this.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/12v-40a-dc-spno-automotive-relay-n02aw

This will also work and has a plug to make joining up easier.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-Bike-12V-40A-Changeover-RELAY-switch-Wiring-harness-with-Diode-/140742320864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20c4e562e0

These relays usually have wiring diagrams printed on their casing and the terminals are numbered so easy to wire up.

[Walter Mitty]

The trolley I used to work with just had the "return to tank" loop.  I also had a hoselock type fitting (with small tap attached) at the end of the hosereel and at the end of the hose piece coming out of the trolley (depending which I was using).  Flow rate was never an issue because the pump would pump more than needed.  Stop the flow to the pole and more water would circulate back into the main trolley.  This method wrecked a sureflo pump very quickly but the flojet has been fine with it.
The down side was that the battery runs down sooner when working with reel because the off switch is back on the trolley so possibly switched off less.

EDIT:  I still work like this but from a van mount.  No electric flow control - just a sturdy pump and a return to tank system.  However, due to the battery run-down issue, I have a split charge relay.  Take care if running this way from the van battery as it runs them down more quickly.

[lee_dewing]

Darran.

here is a post I did beginning of the year when my varistream broke.

fitted cheap motor regulator £7 like a dimmer light switch.

tosh was giving the advice a lot the guys cipped in with their advive too.

I`ve been using 6 ish month`s now no probs once you have setting dial right you could stick it in a tuper box to protect it.

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=191907.0;all

lee

[Rich Wilts]

A 5 litre pump won't deliver near 5 litres per minute, after hose resistance somewhere around 25-30% of the pumps rating is what comes out of the brush head.

[Matt.]

Them little caravan pumps at about £15 are all day especially if you need 4 or 5.

I spoke with the lad and he says the pump was sound for about 6 months, but found after a while that if he disconnected at the hose and let the pressure build up, the pump started to leak but still worked.

He says to solve this he no longer disconnects the hose end, but instead uses the switch he put on the trolley, to cut power.

Thing is if you buy 3 at about £50 u quids in as 1 shurflo will set you back £80

He says the pump 80 psi and he thinks it was 3.5 lpm

I liked your hose that you put on ibc tank for pressure washing...... got me thinking........ Am going to use 1 and fit a few of these pumps to it and see how it goes, nothing planned but would be nice to drop an ibc off at a job knowing you can run 3 or 4 pumps right off it.

[Matt.]

At the moment am running a vyair 10 lpm pmp direct from my battery, very basic set up. If you want pic let me know and will post, but 2 x crocodile clips, wires run through the floor into back of van through hole I drilled and into pump.

Simple and  basic.

[Smudger]

Cheers chaps all great info -, I'll post some pics of the finished trolleys

Spruce - that's easy for you to say, but all those squiggles and funny numbers mean nothing to me 

I like my electrics simple - connect red wire to a red wire, black wires are to earth 

Matthew which hose was that ??

Darran

[Matt.]

You had 1 coming out of a ibc tank to pressure wash,

So I thought I could do that also for big wfp jobs 

 

[Spruce]

Cheers chaps all great info -, I'll post some pics of the finished trolleys

Spruce - that's easy for you to say, but all those squiggles and funny numbers mean nothing to me 

I like my electrics simple - connect red wire to a red wire, black wires are to earth 

Matthew which hose was that ??

Darran

 

You've got a couple of guys working for you - could be one of them has more of an electrical aptitude.