[Andy Hogarth]

I don't want to start a mass debate here but after reading many posts and trying to research a little into microsplitters I'm still a little confused as to the comparison to detergents.

Is it merely that microsplitters are safer to use (is this safer to the customer or the carpet?) as I read that they contain no soaps fragrance or optical brightner or is there another purpose to microsplitters and fragrance and brightner etc is added seperatley if needed?

Again I might be totally off the mark with this question but it is certainly an issue that splits carpet cleaners so please could anyone give there views Why they are for it and why they are against it, It would be interesting to know rather than just hearing m/s is rubbish or m/s is great.

Cheers All
Andy

[spickandspan]

Hi Andy,
Good question this i have tried many M/S from many companys and i always get the same results............ rubbish.
i have always gone by the instructions but never got the same results with chemicals will be interested to hear other views.

[Andy Hogarth]

What prompted you to try microsplitters, How was the product marketed to you or did you just try it because it was a new product on the market?

Andy

[spickandspan]

Hi Andy
yes i like to try all new products some are very good but when you listern to others they think M/S is a magic fluid not by me it is not.
Have you tried any yet???

[Andy Hogarth]

No, I'm not even a carpet cleaner yet , I plan to start up early next year, just getting a feel now and plan to hit the training later this year.I'm Learning so much from this board and it members alone.

What is your view on this statement taken from the worldofclean product description for solution no.2, Question to everybody reading:

SOLUTION reacts until it is completely dry, which means in practice that the cleaning result may even improve until the cleaned surface is entirely dry. The small quantity of humidity necessary for cleaning reduces the drying time tremendously, which means an enormous advantage in time (for example for hotels/restaurants).

Andy

[therapist]

S & S

I have to wonder at your trialling of products & at your efforts to clean carpets ?

If you suggest something is rubbish, when it's been proven to be, quite the opposite by many experienced and professional users, you leave yourself open to question.

I was introduced to m/s about 8 years ago, when they were introduced to us by Franklins of Sheffield, the oldest c/c in the UK..........WELL OVER 100 YEARS..........and along with the full concept, which was......
prevac' / spray a mist of m/s over an area of around 10 sq metres / agitate with the excellent Klanz / rinse/extract with one of the CFR machines.

Franklin's were the distributors for all of these products and they complimented each other very well. What attracted me, initially, was the thought of only having to use a single product, for all carpet and upholstery cleaning, which turned out to be a bit ambitious.

Over 22 years in this business I've tried and tested hundreds of products and found a few to be outstanding, others to be good and some to be, less good.

Even the cheapest would get a result - with effort - and the ones I particularly disliked, were the ones which created too much foam and required defoamer to be added to the return tank.

Each of us has to decide whether we, like a product , but we have to be reasonable and accurate when judging.

have a nice life

rob m

Ps............there is no magic formula, but the individual approach to cleaning will have a bearing, sometimes, dramatic, on the outcome

[Alan_Kennedy]

Hi Spick & Span

Hi Andy,
Good question this i have tried many M/S from many companys and i always get the same results............ rubbish.
i have always gone by the instructions but never got the same results with chemicals will be interested to hear other views.

I use M/S with heavy (RGK) twin brush agitator and extract with CFR400 and always get what I (and my customers) think, are excellent results. I would be interested to hear what you use, to see if I can improve on my cleaning.
Regards Alan

[Andy Hogarth]

Thanks rob, always a pleasure to read your posts, I wasn't aware microsplitters had been around so long, I guess this for or against will just keep running as it always has, I was under the impression it was a relatively new product which some have taken to and some hadn't.
You say you particularly disliked products which needed a low foam, would these products be detergents as opposed to m/s??

Alan, What do you characterize as excellent results compared to detergents, Do you agree with the statement above regarding solution no.2.

Also do microsplitters depend on the machine been used, I'm looking to start with a twin vac hwe?? It's just a lot of posts where people praise m/s the operator seems to use cfr.

Thanks

Andy

[therapist]

They were introduced with the concept I've quoted and Alan Kennedy has just endorsed above. The m/s's hold the soil in suspension, rather than emulsify, which allows the CFR principle to work better than it would with detergents.

My dislike was for High Foaming detergents, which can cause chaos to the unwary and even the wary.

Microsplitters don't foam up.

M/s's depend on agitation rather than any particular machine ..........the product is suited to the machine, rather than dependent on it.

A powerful machine, in some peoples opinion, gives enough agitation through its jets to allow the effective use of m/s..........they could be right. Anyway, the application of a light mist , followed by vigorous agitation and rinse / extraction will give as good as and in some cases a superior clean to detergents, with the added benefit, of being less likely to re soil through leaving a residue.

rob m

[craigp]

i often use prochems powerburst with excellent results, not for use on wool though, it started off as a enzyme prespray and was called just that, then the name was changed then again to powerburst, now its enzyme free, i think its just alkaline now

why was enzyme removed? i belive enzyme is a living organism which digested proteins, grease.

appears to work as well now and in the same way, ie. left to dwell it seems to hold soil in suspension and then extracts with ease,

how does alkaline work?

why was enzyme dropped for alkaline?

[Alan_Kennedy]

Hi Andy
I have never used detergents, which is why I would like to compare m/s against whatever Spick & Span uses. I have always used One Step Woolsafe or Solutions No4, cleaning results being identical. I use the term excellent because I do a local caravan site and the amount of work I get is usually over a couple of days. I have inspected the carpets I have cleaned from the previous day when they are completely dry and they are often like new. (Customers description).
This is quite often the comment I get from other customers but I sometimes wonder if (after reading comments from other CC's) what a T/M would be like. I have only been in the business 3 years and having chosen the CFR (take note A&J), I am curious as to whether I could have bought better.
 Incidentally, having read on this forum that the secret to M/S is the agitation, I wonder if my heavy RGK scrubber IS the reason that I get satisfied customers. Quite often I have been told after the agitation stage that the carpet looks great. And this is before I have rinsed.
Still curious about detergents and T/M.
Regards Alan

[Art]

Alan,

 What's an RGK scrubber?

Arthur

[Alan_Kennedy]

Arthur,
You'll find it in RGK website. www.rgk.co.uk
Search the online catalogue for Rollerwash.
Its the red machine. Heavy little blighter.
Regards Alan

[John Kelly]

Alan

I would suspect you would achieve excellent results with whatever chemical you were using if you used the rollerwash to agitate. The rollerwash is designed as a cleaning machine in its own right and following on with HWE is going to give you ecellent results.

[Art]

Thanks Alan.

[Alan_Kennedy]

Hi John
I use the Rollerwash as a scrubber only, for agitation. I turn off the vacuum lift.
I also own a Rotowash which i feel has a better dirt pickup system. Its even heavier than the Rollerwash. Must give it a try. The only reason I have not tried it with M/S is that you cannot turn off the dirt pickup system with the Rotowash. I do'nt suppose it will make much difference if its followed with an extraction rinse.
Regards Alan

[therapist]

Alan

The reason you're achieving good results, is probably due to your hard work, as well as the equipment and chemical choice.

I have a Rotowash, which is an ideal machine for large areas, with the added  benefit of being, silent and having very rapid drying. Along with my trusty Ninja, the Rotowash and a couple of little Karchers is for sale, as I practically banned from all cleaning activities.

If I can put together an effective package, I might continue in a small way, but the weight of equipment is an issue, as I have pretty serious spinal problems.

ROB M

[Martin S]

I wonder how the 'Rollerwash' compares to the 'Enirodri E30'.  Especially as it's almost half the price!

Rollerwash:  Motor=650watt, weight=15kg, brush width=250mm

Anyone know the spec's for the Envirodri?

[Doug Holloway]

Craig,

To clarify re enzymes.

It is often said that they are living organisms , this is not true BUT because they are catalysts, which means they speed up /make possible a reaction , but are not themselves changed by the reaction , they can therefore continue to catalyse further reactions .

This means in practice that very small amounts of enzymes can cause big problems with sensitisation , particularly proteases with respect to asthma.

It is the dust formed when the carpet has dried which is the problem.

I believe prochem withdrew enzymes for this reason.

Cheers

Doug

[carpetclean]

martin if you want the environdri for half the price then i have one brand new with white and gold brushes  £650 with the brushes thrown in