[Nick M]

Hi all,

Was asked to clean this floor in a Primary School toilet. Rather minging to say the least!

I cleaned it twice by the following method;

Pre swept floor

Flooded floor with 'Jangro Heavy Duty Cleaner' which has a ph of 13.1 at a dilution of 1:25 and allowed to dwell for 20 mins

Scrubbed with a black pad on a slow speed rotary

Wet Vac'd off

Rinsed with Hot water

Repeated twice.

The result was an improvement but wasn't fantastic by any means. Has anyone any suggestions to improve some more? A better product that they've used in a similar situation or some better kit for cleaning hard floors?

Any suggestions welcomed and appreciated!

Nick

[Jamie Pearson]

You may want to try a test patch with an acid side cleaner in case you have hard water deposits.

On this type of floor softer pads can work better as they get into the pits better.

These floors are high susceptible to discolouration from detergents that contain pine oil like a lot of disinfectants and pine gel / lemon gel cleaners. This discolouration cannot be removed.

[Kev Martin]

That looks like Altro flooring to me.  If so because the surface is riven we find a soft to medium brush works better usi g HDT&G coupled with honing powder.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean at least he same time. Jamie is bang on in his post above deep staining is caused by chemical reaction or UV is a pain.

Kev

[Nick M]

Thanks Jamie/Kev,

I was doing some research yesterday and came across 'melamine floor pads'

I take it they're of similar construction to the 'magic sponges' that work well on removing marks from walls etc with just water.

Have either of you used/supply them?

Nick

[Kev Martin]

Thanks Jamie/Kev,

I was doing some research yesterday and came across 'melamine floor pads'

I take it they're of similar construction to the 'magic sponges' that work well on removing marks from walls etc with just water.

Have either of you used/supply them?

Nick

I sell them!  I have used them as well with very mixed results.  I tried them on a floor that was mildly stained and they worked reasonably well with decent results and I tried them on a Mechanics Workshop and went through three of them in about 15M2 so went back to Brush, HDT&G and Honing Powder otherwise they would have cost me a fortune for 400M2.

A little like Microfibre really they mechanically remove but become clogged very quickly if the contamination is very heavy.

Now I need to go and put my Crash Helmet on and wait for the Nuclear Fallout from Tadgh

Kev

[Jamie Pearson]

Melamine pads are great but dont last long when used on a single disk rotary as the movement of the machine causes uneven loading which wears them quickly. On this type of floor I have seen 20m2 use before they are done. On scrubber dryers there isnt the same issue as they have more even loading and high m2 is possible.

Honing powder and a brush as Kevin suggests is something I would also have at my disposal for this type of work. I also carry Prochem QMT (recommended by Altro) for use on wet areas where there may be body fats and limescale.

We always take a picture of the slurry on these before picking up and rinsing to show the client how much dirt was removed. The main reason being in case we are challenged about the appearance and we can then show them the qualification in the quote re-discoloration and the proof of what was removed from the floor.

[Nick M]

Thanks guys,

One more quick question!;

Does honing powder effectively work like a skin exfoliator? adding a bit of abrasion???

Nick

[Jamie Pearson]

Yes

[Neil Jones]

Id say altro, I seem to get a lot of that stuff.

I use a brush and honing powder with high alkaline cleaner and they come up well. Fairly simple to clean IMO.

Not slating jangro but can't imagine that stuff is good enough for this floor.

With these floors I always find after cleaning the wear marks/traffic lanes are enhanced massively and always clarify this with the customer beforehand.

[Tadgh O Shea]

That looks like Altro flooring to me.  If so because the surface is riven we find a soft to medium brush works better usi g HDT&G coupled with honing powder.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean at least he same time. Jamie is bang on in his post above deep staining is caused by chemical reaction or UV is a pain.

Kev

Kevin, you state above that deep staining is caused by chemical reaction, is it not fair to point out to Nick M, that if he uses a high alkaline based chemical especially one that contains sodium hydroxide chances are these harsh chemicals will chemically burn the floor, once the Altro safety floor becomes damaged from these harsh chemicals there is no solution to sort the problem.

[Kev Martin]

That looks like Altro flooring to me.  If so because the surface is riven we find a soft to medium brush works better usi g HDT&G coupled with honing powder.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean at least he same time. Jamie is bang on in his post above deep staining is caused by chemical reaction or UV is a pain.

Kev

Kevin, you state above that deep staining is caused by chemical reaction, is it not fair to point out to Nick M, that if he uses a high alkaline based chemical especially one that contains sodium hydroxide chances are these harsh chemicals will chemically burn the floor, once the Altro safety floor becomes damaged from these harsh chemicals there is no solution to sort the problem.

Tadgh

We have been over this time and time again and I am not going to keep repeating myself.  If High Alkaline cleaners are used correctly with the correct dilutions, correct dwell time, extracted, rinsed and extracted again they do no damage to floors.

I was agreeing with Jamie that if there was damage done by chemicals or UV of any sort and it is usually the gels that do the most damage then they were usually difficult (Not always impossible) to get back regardless of what you use.

I have tried your method with your pads and have posted above I got reasonable results but I also posted above that if the floor is absolutely filthy you go through your pads like they are going out of fashion.

Kev

[Tadgh O Shea]

That looks like Altro flooring to me.  If so because the surface is riven we find a soft to medium brush works better usi g HDT&G coupled with honing powder.  This gives you a chemical and mechanical clean at least he same time. Jamie is bang on in his post above deep staining is caused by chemical reaction or UV is a pain.

Kev

Kevin, you state above that deep staining is caused by chemical reaction, is it not fair to point out to Nick M, that if he uses a high alkaline based chemical especially one that contains sodium hydroxide chances are these harsh chemicals will chemically burn the floor, once the Altro safety floor becomes damaged from these harsh chemicals there is no solution to sort the problem.

Tadgh

We have been over this time and time again and I am not going to keep repeating myself.  If High Alkaline cleaners are used correctly with the correct dilutions, correct dwell time, extracted, rinsed and extracted again they do no damage to floors.

I was agreeing with Jamie that if there was damage done by chemicals or UV of any sort and it is usually the gels that do the most damage then they were usually difficult (Not always impossible) to get back regardless of what you use.

I have tried your method with your pads and have posted above I got reasonable results but I also posted above that if the floor is absolutely filthy you go through your pads like they are going out of fashion.

Kev

Hi Kevin, yes its quite clear you don't understand microcleaning pad technology and their potential for deep cleaning hard floors, if your melamine floor pads are not lasting long enough you need to use compressed melamine floor pads which can handle these problems and also can outlast standard melamine floor pads by up to 10 times depending on which weight melamine pad you choose.
if you are using high alkaline based chemicals especially ones that contain sodium hydroxide to clean the likes of Altro safety flooring you are just asking for trouble as its a known fact they will cause chemical burning to these type surfaces, once the yellow staining appears on these floors from using harsh chemicals containing sodium hydroxide there is no coming back to sorting these chemical burn stains.

[Kev Martin]

Tadgh

Strange then that I have cleaned 1000's M2 of Altro Flooring (all grades) and have never once had an issue using a correctly diluted High Alkaline,  Correct Dwell time, a Mono Rotary Machine fitted with Soft to Medium Brush,  Honing Powder and finally rinsing and extracting properly?

Kevin

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh

Strange then that I have cleaned 1000's M2 of Altro Flooring (all grades) and have never once had an issue using a correctly diluted High Alkaline,  Correct Dwell time, a Mono Rotary Machine fitted with Soft to Medium Brush,  Honing Powder and finally rinsing and extracting properly?

Kevin

Kevin, you usually recommend people to dilute HDT&G 3-1 let it dwell scrub with a soft to medium brush allow more dwell time rinse and extract, with this method and using harsh chemicals containing sodium hydroxide its a recipe for damaging/chemical burning of safety floors, rather you than me for recommending this method. I have seen this damage to Altro safety flooring especially in staff canteen areas where its very popular so many times and have been asked is there anything we can do to remove the yellow chemical burn stains which as you know is just impossible. Its a big problem in the cleaning industry and i know for 100% its caused by high alkaline based chemicals which contain sodium metasilicate/sodium hydroxide, i had used these harsh chemicals myself for many years and could see first hand the detrimental damage they caused. I have seen and continue to see everyday detrimental damage caused by using chemicals containing sodium hydroxide in Dishwashers,Oven cleaners,Vehicle wash bays,and many other areas.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Kevin, If you have a solution to remove these yellow chemical burn stains from safety flooring, i would be more than happy to purchase it from you as there are huge amounts of it out there with this problem.

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh

Strange then that I have cleaned 1000's M2 of Altro Flooring (all grades) and have never once had an issue using a correctly diluted High Alkaline,  Correct Dwell time, a Mono Rotary Machine fitted with Soft to Medium Brush,  Honing Powder and finally rinsing and extracting properly?

Kevin

Strange that i have seen 1000's M2 of Altro safety flooring with detrimental damage caused to them from being  cleaned with high alkaline based cleaning chemicals, Kevin its not just  Aqua mix heavy duty tile and grout cleaner that i would never use on these type floors as its just way to aggressive, neither would i use Altro 44 plus  which is recommended by Altro themselves for deep cleaning their safety floors, it has a pH of 13 and contains some very corrosive ingredients just look at the safety data sheet.
My point being that there are safer alternatives available when it comes to cleaning safety flooring there is no need to use harsh chemicals. I realized many years ago now not to be taken in by the marketing strategies of the big chemical manufacturers as they are full of BS and couldn't give a rip about the damage their harsh chemicals will cause to surfaces,

[Kev Martin]

Tadgh

Why you are ressurecting this thread nearly 4 weeks later beats me.  I have already said on numerous occasions that I am prepared to try anything to clean a floor but I keep coming back to the same method.  Can we please leave it at that now!!!  I am not going to spend 2015 on here bickering with you!  You do it your way and I will do it appropriate to the soiling and surface which is what works for us.

Regarding the staining you cannot get out try Honing Powder as that is an abrasive depending on grit and will SOMETIMES remove the yellowing or at leat reduce it.  Recently we have been using Miracle Liquid Poultice A & B to remove or at the very least significantly reduce it.  Try them and let me know the results.

http://miraclesealants.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=132&Itemid=250

Happy New Year

Kevin

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh

Why you are ressurecting this thread nearly 4 weeks later beats me.  I have already said on numerous occasions that I am prepared to try anything to clean a floor but I keep coming back to the same method.  Can we please leave it at that now!!!  I am not going to spend 2015 on here bickering with you!  You do it your way and I will do it appropriate to the soiling and surface which is what works for us.

Regarding the staining you cannot get out try Honing Powder as that is an abrasive depending on grit and will SOMETIMES remove the yellowing or at leat reduce it.  Recently we have been using Miracle Liquid Poultice A & B to remove or at the very least significantly reduce it.  Try them and let me know the results.

http://miraclesealants.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=132&Itemid=250

Happy New Year

Kevin

  I have built up such an aversion to high alkaline based chemicals and it kills me to see someone recommending them for cleaning safety flooring when i know from years of experience that they can and will cause detrimental damage to this type of flooring, i can understand that you are probably sick of hearing it from me, so you might agree with what i am saying if you hear it from others, if you google ( Damage caused by using high alkaline based chemicals) there are many different discussions where experts talk about chemical burning,yellow staining,leaving high alkaline based chemicals dwell to long on surfaces, they state that these harsh chemicals are not recommended for vinyl type floors, they state that using high alkaline based chemicals can cause damage from regular use, they specifically mention high alkaline chemicals that contain sodium hydroxide to be one of the most damaging, they talk about pH value and explain that the higher ph value products are far more aggressive to surfaces. there is quite an amount of information available on these pages as to the damaging effects caused from using high alkaline based chemicals and i hope that it may be of benefit to others.

[Kev Martin]

Tadgh

Your last post about cleaners (in which you quote my post) goes on and on about the same old now boring information. Yet in my post I only answered your previous post about yellowing and have not even mentioned High Alkalines.  Which only proves to me that you didn't even bother to read what I had written!

Secondly and more importantly you keep mentioning Aqua Mix HDT& G cleaners.  We now use Miracle Products and that was the product I gave you the link to.  So read the MSDS and report back please.

Kevin

[Tadgh O Shea]

Tadgh

Your last post about cleaners (in which you quote my post) goes on and on about the same old now boring information. Yet in my post I only answered your previous post about yellowing and have not even mentioned High Alkalines.  Which only proves to me that you didn't even bother to read what I had written!

Secondly and more importantly you keep mentioning Aqua Mix HDT& G cleaners.  We now use Miracle Products and that was the product I gave you the link to.  So read the MSDS and report back please.

Kevin

I did bother to read your posts, thats what has me bothered, anyway as you say lets leave it at that.