[Fox]

This is the senario - you have a cleaner off on holiday and the replacement sets the building alarms off twice in a row.  The client complains that it costs £80 each time for the alarm company to come and reset it and says they want to invoice you for the costs.

So would you or wouldn't you pay and what reasons would you state for your decision?

Fox

 

[Phoenix]

Was the replacement cleaner trained in the use of the alarm system by your client, or is it your resposibility to inform the cleaner how the alarm system works.

If its the clients responsibility to train or show the replacement cleaner how the alarm system works, then you could say they are responsible for the call out charge.  If its your responsibility, then you pay. 

This all depends on how much the contract is worth.  It the job worth keeping?  Are they good payers?  Can you afford to lose the work if you refuse to pay for the call outs.

Just a couple of points to think about.

regards

Graham

[*Chris Browne]

Had this a couple of times over the years and im afraid we have had to pay out, if we take the responsablity of locking up then we must ensure it is done correctly if its not done properly its our fault

chris

[D woods]

Hi Fox
When we used to be involved in office cleaning , this used to happen to
us once a month. The problem was most of the cleaners spoke very poor
English and did not understand the instructions.

Sometimes the client would pay the alarm company, but usually we had to
pay.And every single time we refused to pay, we lost the job.

[Fox]

Hmmm - interesting - in all the years I have been in this business I have never before been asked this question and believe me cleaners have set off dozens of alarms!

I am very divided on this and feel that some liability lays with the client as they are the ones who want cleaning out of office hours so they must allow for human error.  On the other hand I also believe that the cleaner was not instructed properly by the person given responsibility to show him (even though he had three days to learn it!) so the Company has to hold some responsibility for that.

Difficult one this but a decision has to be made, just don't know what it should be yet!

Fox

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Depends if you want to keep the contract or not!?
I would pay it to keep good relations but make sure next time your comfortable that the cleaner has been properly trained etc Learn from the mistake and move on is my opinion.

regards rob.

[Fox]

Depends if you want to keep the contract or not!?

The contract will not be lost through not paying and I didn't ask what would happen if the decision was not to pay, just what reasons would be behind a decision.  (and I thank you for yours)  The question was to find out what others would do if they were in this situation.  I already know the pros and cons of paying or not paying in this particular case.

I feel this is an interesting topic and may help to get people thinking when becoming a keyholder.

Fox
 

[AJCleaningServices]

..I am very divided on this and feel that some liability lays with the client as they are the ones who want cleaning out of office hours...

I would disagree with this point.  Offices usually done before or after their working hours and houses done during the day.

...so they must allow for human error...

From your words they have let you get away with it for the first time, but two times in a row... would you not take some actions?

...I also believe that the cleaner was not instructed properly by the person given responsibility to show him (even though he had three days to learn it!) so the Company has to hold some responsibility for that.

Difficult one this but a decision has to be made, just don't know what it should be yet!...

We would to pay for the call out...

Just my thoughts,

Regards,

Arthur

[BSF]

Hi Fox and all,

It is a good subject, I personally wouldn’t pay it, I would point out what is in my t&c’s which were signed before the job started:

No liability will be held against the company for any loss or damage howsoever caused by the company’s employees, you the customer, its servants or agents omission to secure any windows, doors, fire exits or to commission security systems.

Regards

Paul

[BSF]

Any how  I believe this could be a bit of a trick question Fox, because it has happened to us more than a few times, I’d actually tell the person to get a new alarm system or provider, because, they (customer) would have an override code to reset/change the alarm system/code, if not they could call the alarm provider to get the code to reset.

No charge would be made…

Regards

Paul

[AJCleaningServices]

...I’d actually tell the person to get a new alarm system or provider, because, they (customer) would have an override code to reset/change the alarm system/code, if not they could call the alarm provider to get the code to reset…

Paul,

That's a good advice...

What if they (customers) advise you to get a new cleaner who can understand your instructions...

Regards,

Arthur

[BSF]

Sorry Arthur, if someone wants to employ a cleaner who cant enter an alarm code, thats up to them

My point is I wouldnt pay any money the question posted by Fox asked what would you do.

Mistakes do happen, as Ive wrote above, if an alarm go's off it's reset, either by entering the correct code or the reset code, no charge, if their was it's in our terms that we wont be liable.

Regards

Paul

[BSF]

Had this a couple of times over the years and im afraid we have had to pay out, if we take the responsablity of locking up then we must ensure it is done correctly if its not done properly its our fault

chris

No Chris it's not your fault, I wouldnt sleep at night if I thought I was going to be liable for my staff not setting alarms and locking doors, I suggest you and others have a really big think about your t & c's, what you need to add is posted above.

Regards

Paul

[AJCleaningServices]

Paul,

I run a small domestic cleaning company and for me very difficult to judg how to deal with BIG customers, but as far as my personal experience is conerned I should say that do treat others in the same way as you would like to be treated, so if it was my foult I would admit it  

But as I said your advice regarding changing "alarm" company was really good.

Regards,

Arthur

[BSF]

Ey up Arthur,

If you were a key holder to a domestic customer, one of your staff forgot to lock the door and/or set the alarm, then a nasty burglar robbed the house

do you mean to tell me that you'd admit being liable for any loss, if so, you shouldnt be in business.

People do forget to do things and make mistakes entering alarm code's, its normal, but i'm wise enough to protect myself from being sued from every angle.

You sound like a very honest man Arthur thats a good quality, but you must understand business is business.

Perhaps Fox and Chris will now sleep on my replys and let us all know what they think 2moz

Regards

Paul

[blacksheep]

hi fox, if it happened i would feel i should pay, now this may through a spanner in the works , my hubby was reading  /looking in to security and keyholders last week and we were discussing the point ,that a new law out now saying anyone who is a keyholder now is responable for sceruity so therefore needs to hold a badge for secutiry, there is a site for it but i cant seem to find it for you. even though i took out keyholders insurance i will have to ring them up to see am i covered because of this new law out, may not have anything to do with us lot but just a thought

[AJCleaningServices]

Paul,

Your T & C can protect you in an nasty event and that is very good, but sometimes it would be better to pay in order to retain a good relationship with your customer.  The Fox's case is one of where I would pay.  Just my view on this particular case.

Regards,

Arthur

------------------------------

Added later:

Paul, what about PL insurance should you not refer to it in case of "disaster" instead of relaying on your T & C?  My guess is that in same cases of loss caused by your membe of staff you could be taken to court and your T & C would not protect you.

Regards,

Arthur

[Prestige1]

I can't believe you asked the question. It’s your responsibility so you should pay simple as. surely if you are building a business that’s not only professional but reputable you can't get out of not paying, on the other hand if you take the stance of not paying not your problem, this to me just spells out cowboys to me, but then its just my opinion.

[Fox]

can't believe you asked the question. It’s your responsibility so you should pay simple as. surely if you are building a business that’s not only professional but reputable you can't get out of not paying, on the other hand if you take the stance of not paying not your problem, this to me just spells out cowboys to me, but then its just my opinion.

Hey tonto - pass me my lasso I have some cleaning to do!  lol - you obviously have no idea on how a large company runs with several key holders and alarms to deal with!  I think you would be bankrupt in a few weeks!  To admit liability would be very silly from a business point of view, what if there was a fault with the alarm that set it off through no ones fault but it was the cleaners fob that was at fault?  Would you pay each time?  (I have had this problem previously and the cleaner was blamed for 3 months as sometimes the fob worked other times it didn't, in the end it was found to be a fault in the system, I wouldn't have a business if I had paid then!).

B.S.F I have a clause in my contract covering me for employees stating that the contractor will not be liable for any loss or damage suffered by the customer and its servants etc etc by reason of dishonesty, destruction or any other action etc etc and could use this clause although it doesn't state alarms directly.

I know what action I am going to take and will let you all know shortly, I am finding your opinions very interesting although surprising!

Fox

[Prestige1]

This is the senario - you have a cleaner off on holiday and the replacement sets the building alarms off twice in a row.  The client complains that it costs £80 each time for the alarm company to come and reset it and says they want to invoice you for the costs.

So would you or wouldn't you pay and what reasons would you state for your decision?

Fox
Oh we've changed the story now have we, gone from the replacement set the alarm off to a faulty fob!!!! Get your story right and we all will have a chance at given you an accurate reply. My word I have seen companies like yours 10 a penny, it not me! I didn’t do it, honest!  I have seen your posts before, why do you bother to seek other peoples opinions and then slag them off when they pass there’s. And why do you presume I have no large contracts? Dear me we do have an attitude. Because I am honest and do the right thing I probably get paid a hell of a lot more then you do for my large contracts. Don’t bother to do a sarcastic reply because I promise I won't be bothered to read it a bit like your posts in the future. Regards Phil