[♠Winp®oClean♠]

My van has run on nothing but supermarket fuel from new, as does the wifes car. Had my van for 6 1/2 years, her car for four. Both run fine,no issues.
How many hundreds of thousands get supermarket fuel every day, and how many issues are anumptyst these?
Just my opinion though...

.. and I'm sure there won't be an issue. I usually alternate between Asda and Shell.

The important thing is to have a fuel free from contamination, so its important to always make sure your diesel fuel filter is changed regularily, usually with every service, no matter what fuel you choose.

The Hdi engine that is now the joint venture with PSA and Ford have to be built (detuned) to allow for a poorer quality of fuel than what we get in Europe. Some of the fuels that they get in Central Africa, India and South America are nowhere near the quality we get, often being mixed with other stuff to reduce that country's oil cost. (Ethanol in petrol is a good example.)

Apparently this is why ECU remaps are so popular, to reinstate the engine characteristics to what they should have always been- in this country with good fuel quality?

[PoleKing]

I've wondered about this AdBlue.
Can someone (Spruce or Andy I'd imagine  ) explain it please?

The best explaination is this one;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdBlue

A lot of the lorries up and down the motorway are successfully using this simple, cost effective technology to get their emissions right, so why the smaller vehicles don't use this same system is beyond me.

Cheers Spruce.
So, can I add a drop to my diesel tank to do the same job?
Does it just lower emissions or will it help clean the engine or whatever?

[Spruce]

My van has run on nothing but supermarket fuel from new, as does the wifes car. Had my van for 6 1/2 years, her car for four. Both run fine,no issues.
How many hundreds of thousands get supermarket fuel every day, and how many issues are anumptyst these?
Just my opinion though...

.. and I'm sure there won't be an issue. I usually alternate between Asda and Shell.

The important thing is to have a fuel free from contamination, so its important to always make sure your diesel fuel filter is changed regularily, usually with every service, no matter what fuel you choose.

The Hdi engine that is now the joint venture with PSA and Ford have to be built (detuned) to allow for a poorer quality of fuel than what we get in Europe. Some of the fuels that they get in Central Africa, India and South America are nowhere near the quality we get, often being mixed with other stuff to reduce that country's oil cost. (Ethanol in petrol is a good example.)

Apparently this is why ECU remaps are so popular, to reinstate the engine characteristics to what they should have always been- in this country with good fuel quality?

In a nutshell - yes!

[Spruce]

I've wondered about this AdBlue.
Can someone (Spruce or Andy I'd imagine  ) explain it please?

The best explaination is this one;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdBlue

A lot of the lorries up and down the motorway are successfully using this simple, cost effective technology to get their emissions right, so why the smaller vehicles don't use this same system is beyond me.

Cheers Spruce.
So, can I add a drop to my diesel tank to do the same job?
Does it just lower emissions or will it help clean the engine or whatever?

No you can not. It can only be used in an engine that has been designed for it's use.

Ad Blue requires a separate tank and system to spray this mixture into the exhaust gas after it has left the engine. The heat from the exhaust reacts with the harmful gasses caused during combustion to turn them into nitrogen and water, both harmless to the atmosphere. The engine itself can be tuned to run on 'lean burn' which uses all the fuel leaving no soot. But running a diesel in this mode increases harmful gasses, so this is where the AdBlue comes in.

This is a system example;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Night-Heater-Fuel-Tank-Webasto-Fuel-Pump-Ad-Blue-Tank-Scr-Treatment-/251520085844?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3a8fc3ef54#ht_291wt_1399

but it has to be linked into the ecu as the amount of Adblue sprayed into the exhaust needs to be in proportion to the amount of diesel being used at the time. If your diesel car is doing 40 MPG then you will use around a gallon of AdBlue every 1500 to 2000 miles. The idea is that everytime you fill up with diesel you top up the AdBlue tank from your 5 litre container you carry in the boot of the car.

IMHO the manufacturers of diesel engines are being forced to progressively clean up diesel exhaust fumes with EU directives, so they are leaving a bit of technology on the proverbial table for the next round of emission cuts.

The other issue is a car buyers perception of the new vehicle they are buying or considering buying. Will they want to raise the bonnet of their car and top up the AdBlue tank at the same time they are refueling? The manufacturers would expect a long distance lorry driver to do that, but how often do you see a motorist checking the oil in the engine on a forecourt these days?

The first dpf filters were fitted to the Citroen C5 with the 2.2 hdi engine followed by Peugeot, Fiat and Ford. BMW and Mercedes also climbed on the dpf bandwagon. The main dealers charged a fortune to replenish the fluid and reset the ecu to say the service had been done. So it was a very lucurative job when a car came into the workshop. It took a while before outside dealers learnt/developed the skill to sort these filters out themselves. Once they got the hang of it and the equipment to get into the engine management system, costs to service these units fell with competition.

[PoleKing]

Thanks Spruce.
Very comprehensive, as ever.

They are dirty gits.
I get the AdBlue 'neutralising' the fumes.
But just a regular DPF, saves up the soot then poofs it out every now & then rather than slowly but all the time.
What a crock.

Lesson learned (t?) for me though, no more Sainsbury's diesel going in my car!
Van-I'm undecided yet.

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

I am soupy! Fuel cards are a nonsense mate......

I have been using fuel cards for some time. It saves me 5ppl.

let the haters get on with it mate , most on here never see real miles , or even buy a new van more then once in there life yet know it all ........ 

when we were running our fleet in at dhl n city link we saved a massive amount on fuel with fuel cards , our 4 weekly bill was always the wrong side or 6k 

but you have to have two cards and on a Monday morning my job was to find out which card we were using that week we still have them now even those were down to 4 vans

[GmeisterW]

Idk if this is all In ya head as my mates says.

but always used shell v power deisel in my car, and my car runs better then it did when I first got it.
Once put tesco fuel in and I know my car didnt like ran somewhat slower.

[PoleKing]

I put shell v power in the car las ill up.
A bit skewed as she's done more A road driving than normal this week but we usually get around 400 miles to a tank and tonight i drove it and it's projecting 505 miles.
Yup, definitely the last time i'll be mixing audi & sainsbury's. Still take the van though.

[Spruce]

Thanks Spruce.
Very comprehensive, as ever.

They are dirty gits.
I get the AdBlue 'neutralising' the fumes.
But just a regular DPF, saves up the soot then poofs it out every now & then rather than slowly but all the time.
What a crock.

Lesson learned (t?) for me though, no more Sainsbury's diesel going in my car!
Van-I'm undecided yet.

It's not quite that way in practice. 

The dpf filter traps the soot particles that would normally be exhausted into the atmosphere and the air we breath. Just look at the inside of your tailpipe and see how sooty it is. The dpf filter acts as a trap and stops these particles. When the trap becomes full of soot the idea is to set fire to it at a very high burn temperature, thus turning the soot to ash, which isn't as harmful to the environment (well until another study is done.)

To comment on your last post - I have found repeatedly that I will average around 28 MPG with Shell and around 22 MPG with supermarket fuel. These figures have come from 4 years of records and this is the trend. My son has found the same with his Peugeot Partner Hdi van.

We have a Morrisons & Tesco garage about 6 miles from us. For us the only time we fill up there is if it's convenient. Price wise they have little competition so price their fuel within a few pence of Shell and Esso. From time to time a £40.00 spend in the supermarket will qualify for a 12 pence per litre saving on diesel which saved me £9 on a full tank, so I will take advantage of that. Otherwise, it works out cheaper for me to run the van on Shell or Esso as the increased fuel economy more than compensates for the slightly higher purchase price.
 

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Apparently the supermarket & brand fuel is the same stuff, only difference is additives.

Try some diesel additive, you'll see instant MPG increase- however, the cost of the additive outweighs the benefit in MPG. That's all "superfuel" is, normal fuel with additive.

Wynnes DPF cleaner gives a very good MPG increase & slight increased response too- pretty pointless though.

[Spruce]

Apparently the supermarket & brand fuel is the same stuff, only difference is additives.

Try some diesel additive, you'll see instant MPG increase- however, the cost of the additive outweighs the benefit in MPG. That's all "superfuel" is, normal fuel with additive.

Wynnes DPF cleaner gives a very good MPG increase & slight increased response too- pretty pointless though.

this was a comment attached to an 'Honest John' topic regarding the difference between supermarket and branded fuels a few years ago;

"Use Shell.

Much higher cetane rating which means the fuel ignites easier. When a fuel is essentially more flamible it burns more completely. As oppossed to a supermarket fuel which has no/low amounts of cetane booster (2-EthylHexylNitrate) which has a lower cetane rating, UK spec 51.

When our diesel cars re-circulate exhaust gasses, NOX, this burns cooler in the combustion chamber and the fuel burn's incompletely, forming carbon, soot.

A higher cetane fuel like Shell fuelsave or bp ultimate has a centane of around 56/57. More fuel is therefore ignited at any air/nox mix and leaves less soot.

I'm sure you are aware, carbon in the internals will eventually lead to component failure, the first stop, DPF"


So where does red diesel fit into this picture? Is it the same fuel with additives (colourant) that makes the diesel burn with so much soot. Why do Webasto heaters love a clean burning (branded) road diesel as opposed to red diesel which soots up the internals and creates premature internal component failure?

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Apparently the supermarket & brand fuel is the same stuff, only difference is additives.

Try some diesel additive, you'll see instant MPG increase- however, the cost of the additive outweighs the benefit in MPG. That's all "superfuel" is, normal fuel with additive.

Wynnes DPF cleaner gives a very good MPG increase & slight increased response too- pretty pointless though.

this was a comment attached to an 'Honest John' topic regarding the difference between supermarket and branded fuels a few years ago;

"Use Shell.

Much higher cetane rating which means the fuel ignites easier. When a fuel is essentially more flamible it burns more completely. As oppossed to a supermarket fuel which has no/low amounts of cetane booster (2-EthylHexylNitrate) which has a lower cetane rating, UK spec 51.

When our diesel cars re-circulate exhaust gasses, NOX, this burns cooler in the combustion chamber and the fuel burn's incompletely, forming carbon, soot.

A higher cetane fuel like Shell fuelsave or bp ultimate has a centane of around 56/57. More fuel is therefore ignited at any air/nox mix and leaves less soot.

I'm sure you are aware, carbon in the internals will eventually lead to component failure, the first stop, DPF"


So where does red diesel fit into this picture? Is it the same fuel with additives (colourant) that makes the diesel burn with so much soot. Why do Webasto heaters love a clean burning (branded) road diesel as opposed to red diesel which soots up the internals and creates premature internal component failure?

Yep, these additives boost cetane giving a more economical burn thus improved MPG. Add the cost of the additive though & the extra MPG is meaningless. However, it be overall a better solution for the engine.

[J.D]

I am soupy! Fuel cards are a nonsense mate......

I have been using fuel cards for some time. It saves me 5ppl.

let the haters get on with it mate , most on here never see real miles , or even buy a new van more then once in there life yet know it all ........ 

when we were running our fleet in at dhl n city link we saved a massive amount on fuel with fuel cards , our 4 weekly bill was always the wrong side or 6k 

but you have to have two cards and on a Monday morning my job was to find out which card we were using that week we still have them now even those were down to 4 vans

Oh ain't I the special one! Its all in your big empty heads! Supermarket fuel is always the cheapest for a reason! I'd never put it in any of my six vans! Oh how big am I, six vans and all ! 

[Soupy]

I pay no attention to where I buy my fuel, accepting as to whether it takes the fuel card or not. I get an email on Friday saying: fuel next week will be xx pence per litre. I use many different petrol stations, some supermarket, some shell. I see no difference in mpg from either. It may well be different but it I get around 20mpg full of water and 28mpg empty. That is fairly consistent with either supermarket or shell.

I save 5ppl compared to the price at our local Morrisons, it's usually more than 5ppl if I fill up at shell but it's further away so I only use it when passing. I won't be going out of my way for "better" diesel. If there is any difference between the fuels it makes a negligible difference to td5 engines.

[PoleKing]

I pay no attention to where I buy my fuel, accepting as to whether it takes the fuel card or not. I get an email on Friday saying: fuel next week will be xx pence per litre. I use many different petrol stations, some supermarket, some shell. I see no difference in mpg from either. It may well be different but it I get around 20mpg full of water and 28mpg empty. That is fairly consistent with either supermarket or shell.

I save 5ppl compared to the price at our local Morrisons, it's usually more than 5ppl if I fill up at shell but it's further away so I only use it when passing. I won't be going out of my way for "better" diesel. If there is any difference between the fuels it makes a negligible difference to td5 engines.

That's 'cause a TD5 would run on Gin Soupy.
I hear good things about them.

[Soupy]

"interestingly" if I get fuel from Tesco it costs me 1ppl MORE than if I get it elsewhere, including shell. According to the people that issues the card Tesco surcharge 1ppl to get you to use their card instead.

[Soupy]

Oh ain't I the special one! Its all in your big empty heads! Supermarket fuel is always the cheapest for a reason! I'd never put it in any of my six vans! Oh how big am I, six vans and all !  

With 6 vans on the road fuel cards are something you should maybe reconsider, handled in the correct manner you can save yourself quite a bit of cash. I have used many over the past couple of years. Some are just supermarkets, some are branded to distributers, some manufacturers. Everyone I have used have been charlatans, but, if you keep on top of them i.e. check every invoice and regularly compare the prices they offer you can save around 5ppl. No matter where you buy your fuel.
 
The first one I used tried to charge me £12 per card per year. I told them no, and that was the end of that. Others have charged more than they claimed. If they start to muck you about just change cards. I am happy with the one I'm using at the moment but I have another set of cards ready and waiting.

Although money saving is my main priority there are other benefits too. Weekly invoices are much easier to account than 1/2 a dozen receipts every few days. Most cards also have on line analysers that you can use to see exactly which van/driver uses most fuel, differences (if any) in mpg from one station to the next and besides you get 30 days credit. Good for cash flow, not that window cleaning has cash flow issues.

[Soupy]

I pay no attention to where I buy my fuel, accepting as to whether it takes the fuel card or not. I get an email on Friday saying: fuel next week will be xx pence per litre. I use many different petrol stations, some supermarket, some shell. I see no difference in mpg from either. It may well be different but it I get around 20mpg full of water and 28mpg empty. That is fairly consistent with either supermarket or shell.

I save 5ppl compared to the price at our local Morrisons, it's usually more than 5ppl if I fill up at shell but it's further away so I only use it when passing. I won't be going out of my way for "better" diesel. If there is any difference between the fuels it makes a negligible difference to td5 engines.

That's 'cause a TD5 would run on Gin Soupy.
I hear good things about them.

Never tried gin. How much is it per litre?