[Window Lickers]

but when you socialise in them sort of circles in doesn't seem as bad as others see it till you step back and see so I have been living with blinkers on

Better change your friends Richy.

If you frequent a brothel often enough eventually you'll get what you went for.

[Perfect Windows]

That's why there is such a massive offending & re offending rate in this country, because there is no punishment! Loss of liberty alone is no longer a punishment in this wider society of today. If prison was the last place on earth anyone would want to go to & for good reason you would see crime drop from all but the most desperate of examples!

Er, crime is dropping.  Pretty drastically.

It's pretty much the same as it was in 1981!! not much progress there then eh?

So you can look at that graph and say that crime isn't dropping?  Well done you.

Vin

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

That's why there is such a massive offending & re offending rate in this country, because there is no punishment! Loss of liberty alone is no longer a punishment in this wider society of today. If prison was the last place on earth anyone would want to go to & for good reason you would see crime drop from all but the most desperate of examples!

Er, crime is dropping.  Pretty drastically.

It's pretty much the same as it was in 1981!! not much progress there then eh?

So you can look at that graph and say that crime isn't dropping?  Well done you.

Vin

Graphs will go up & down. Can you look at that graph & tell me that much has changed since 1981 in overall reported crime figures clever cloggs??

So, in the last 30 odd years there has been virtually no improvement in overall reported crime figures. So, where has this softly, softly approach got us 30 odd years down the line? Nowhere, in fact, it got MUCH worse before it got back to where it was to begin with- NO progress! 

[Perfect Windows]

"Is dropping".  Present tense.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

"Is dropping".  Present tense.

Is no progress 30 odd years down the line no progress 30 odd years down the line? Or, do you see a decline from a peak back down to where it was 30 odd years ago as 30 odd years worth of good crime prevention policies?

[Perfect Windows]

Crime is dropping and has been since it peaked in 1995.  Spin it as you wish.

Vin

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Crime is dropping and has been since it peaked in 1995.  Spin it as you wish.

Vin

Not me that's spinning, it's there in black & white. It went up between 2005 to 2007, up again between 2008 to 2009 & again between 10/11.

It went up, it came back down but we remain as we were donkey's ago- FACT!

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Ever thought of working for Alex Salmond Vin??

[Tom White]

That's why there is such a massive offending & re offending rate in this country, because there is no punishment!

At least Perfect Windows backs up his statement with evidence, unlike you who just seem to base it on your feelings.  

Feelings aren't facts, Win.  Have you any evidence to back up your points?  I can think of a few facts that show your feelings to be quite incorrect.  Over the water, for example, states that have capital punishment don't have lower crime figures for any type of crime, which really, just goes to prove you're talking rubbish.

[PoleKing]

That's why there is such a massive offending & re offending rate in this country, because there is no punishment!

At least Perfect Windows backs up his statement with evidence, unlike you who just seem to base it on your feelings.  

Feelings aren't facts, Win.  Have you any evidence to back up your points?  I can think of a few facts that show your feelings to be quite incorrect.  Over the water, for example, states that have capital punishment don't have lower crime figures for any type of crime, which really, just goes to prove you're talking rubbish.

Countries like the US, technically have capital punishment in some states.
But how often is it used? Rarely in reality.
Countries like UAE have laws where they chop your hands off for stealing.
I wonder what the figures are for theft over there?

[Tom White]

Countries like the US, technically have capital punishment in some states.
But how often is it used? Rarely in reality.

Are you basing this on your feelings or do you know the facts? 

The US also has a harsh prison system, really harsh in some states; and still there's no corroborating  difference in crime statistics with states with less harsh prison systems.

On Bastoy prison island in Norway, the prisoners, some of whom are murderers and rapists, live in conditions that critics brand 'cushy' and 'luxurious'. Yet it has by far the lowest reoffending rate in Europe

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

Simple minded people like simple minded solutions but in reality, things are more complex than they first appear.

[PoleKing]

Countries like the US, technically have capital punishment in some states.
But how often is it used? Rarely in reality.

Are you basing this on your feelings or do you know the facts? 


Tbh, based on what I've seen in documentaries. Maybe 4 or 5 different ones.
This topic really interests me because I am very pro extremely harsh sentencing and punishments for some and education for others.
In reality, an idea that would be nigh on impossible to implicate fairly.
The US also has a harsh prison system, really harsh in some states; and still there's no corroborating  difference in crime statistics with states with less harsh prison systems.

On Bastoy prison island in Norway, the prisoners, some of whom are murderers and rapists, live in conditions that critics brand 'cushy' and 'luxurious'. Yet it has by far the lowest reoffending rate in Europe

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

Simple minded people like simple minded solutions but in reality, things are more complex than they first appear.

[rosskesava]

A graph of recorded crime rates on it's own and without any detailed explanation of how those figures were obtained is pretty much meaningless.

[Tom White]

A graph of recorded crime rates on it's own and without any detailed explanation of how those figures were obtained is pretty much meaningless.

I disagree, it serves to give an indication that reported crime is falling, which may infer that actual crime rates are falling.

Here's some more info if you're interested:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales

[PoleKing]

A graph of recorded crime rates on it's own and without any detailed explanation of how those figures were obtained is pretty much meaningless.

I disagree, it serves to give an indication that reported crime is falling, which may infer that actual crime rates are falling.

Here's some more info if you're interested:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales

The collecting criteria may have changed though.
In 30 years it will have, without a doubt.

[Perfect Windows]

A graph of recorded crime rates on it's own and without any detailed explanation of how those figures were obtained is pretty much meaningless.

OK, here you go - and it's a more updated version of the graph on page 6 but there are another 131 pages detailing how the stats were created.  Tell me what you think once you've read it all.  http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_360216.pdf

Oh, and it shows that crime is (I use "is" as in currently, the present tense, the way most people use it) dropping.

Vin

[Perfect Windows]

The collecting criteria may have changed though.
In 30 years it will have, without a doubt.

Has it occurred to you that the changes (detailed in the graph) might make the decline look smaller than it is?  Not saying they do, just that it's entirely possible.  Your argument runs both ways.

Vin

[Tom White]

The collecting criteria may have changed though.
In 30 years it will have, without a doubt.

And?  You're inferring something, but not actually stating what you're inferring.  Are you saying that crime is getting worse, but that the figures are massaged in the way they're collected?

I'm unsure what your point is.  If you read the link it covers pretty much the whole subject in a nice bite-sized read.  It even covers how our perception of what crime rates are and how the reality of the situation may differ.

But if you look to the countries with the lowest re-offending rates, you'll see they're modern countries that treat their convicts with some degree of respect.  If you know of any examples where harsh prison regimes reduce re-offending, I'd be interested to read about it.

[Simon Spencer]

You should be banned from the forum! You are a convicted class A drug dealer!

Why is everybody treating him with respect?

[PoleKing]

You should be banned from the forum! You are a convicted class A drug dealer!

Why is everybody treating him with respect?

Your first post is this?!
Wind your neck in.