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Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 4334
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2014, 09:19:26 pm »
They probley come from china! But some people have found out how to cut the middle man out.



I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole.  Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.

So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable. 

What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China.  As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks.  I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.

Vin


H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2014, 09:23:08 pm »
They probley come from china! But some people have found out how to cut the middle man out.



I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole.  Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.

So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable. 

What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China.  As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks.  I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.

Vin



I have never bought one direct, and never will i dont mind paying for gardiners.

Im just saying the majority of things are made in them kindof country's then someone ships over in bulk and makes a profit, so i imagine someone outside of England is making the poles for Gardiners:)

David Kent @ KentKleen

  • Posts: 1712
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2014, 09:27:59 pm »
Its like having your glass cleaned by the local splash and dash or having all your frames cleaned along with your glass by the local well respected window cleaning company.
NO COMPARISON ! ;D

David Kent @ KentKleen

  • Posts: 1712
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2014, 09:31:21 pm »
Buying something made in china (or wherever) and having something made in china (or wherever) are 2 totally different processes.

David Kent @ KentKleen

  • Posts: 1712
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2014, 09:33:18 pm »
Anyway H2O shouldn't you have your eye patches on!!!  ;D

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2014, 09:37:06 pm »
I dont think your quite understanding.

These china poles people go on about could be massive over there like the gardiners in england?
My point is there is risks when ordering straight from china rather than going through a well known company such as gardiners.
I have not heard any bad stories of the poles which tells me they are probley made a similar way to Gardiners, however you have no comeback should there be a problem.

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2014, 09:37:54 pm »
Anyway H2O shouldn't you have your eye patches on!!!  ;D
Haha there not coming from boots there coming from china:( quality takes time😏

David Kent @ KentKleen

  • Posts: 1712
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2014, 09:43:43 pm »
If they are all they are made out to be why has non of the big suppliers shipped some in?
I shouldn't have to tell you the answer.

rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2014, 10:03:24 pm »
I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole.  Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.

So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable. 

What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China.  As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks.  I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.

Vin



How do you know the cash savings don't outweigh the risks?

At approx £130 for an 18ft carbon fibre pole, I'm going to buy one and find out.

Possibly the reason that the big suppliers havn't shipped some in and sold them is that maybe there is much more profit to be made from them selling their own 'brand'.

The carbon fibre used by the big suppliers comes from somewhere and with bulk buying the price comes down and then it's simple machining processes, add clamps, stick the name on it and hey presto, you've a WFP pole from a big supplier.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

H20cleaning

  • Posts: 2098
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2014, 10:04:33 pm »
This is my point.... The suppliers could be getting them shipped in! And they are the middle man making the profit.

David Kent @ KentKleen

  • Posts: 1712
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2014, 10:08:19 pm »
What clamps are you going to stick on it? Have you do any R&D on which design is best?
Will the handle be insulated? That would be shocking if it hasn't!  ;D

Herve garrot

Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2014, 10:29:39 pm »
well.everyone has to make their money.good for gardiner. they don't just offer a product but also : customer service and if there is something wrong with the product you can always send it back! If you are a busy window cleaner you shouldn't resent investing in a good quality pole which is your main tool. Now if you'd sooner risk buying direct from china in order to spend less it's up to you but if anything goes wrong then you'll have to bite the bullet!!! not really worth the hassle!!

ben M

  • Posts: 4720
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2014, 10:41:12 pm »
well.everyone has to make their money.good for gardiner. they don't just offer a product but also : customer service and if there is something wrong with the product you can always send it back! If you are a busy window cleaner you shouldn't resent investing in a good quality pole which is your main tool. Now if you'd sooner risk buying direct from china in order to spend less it's up to you but if anything goes wrong then you'll have to bite the bullet!!! not really worth the hassle!!
+1

rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2014, 10:47:28 pm »
What clamps are you going to stick on it? Have you do any R&D on which design is best?
Will the handle be insulated? That would be shocking if it hasn't!  ;D


I'm simply going to buy one to find out. It's not a huge sum of money.

As for electrocution, around here there are no live over head wires to houses.

R & D. Do you really think these companies make their own carbon fibre? They buy, or get given, sample to stress test etc, which is hardly technical stuff. A lot of carbon fibre comes with data already supplied anyway and that just leaves the clamps which I admit, Gardiner's does seem to have done a lot of work on.

I do actually understand the risks of buying a pole from China. I do already have 2 Ionics poles and a Gardiners pole plus an old Bayerson plus 3 unused Harris poles.

The question of 'hassle', it's not a foregone conclusion that I will have 'hassle' and there's no 'biting the bullet'. I'm buying a pole to find out if it's any good.

I'm not knocking Gardiners at all. The quality of service is second to none and the quality of products is high, but there again, so is the price.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2014, 10:56:33 pm »
Gardiners massive in England?  ???
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 4334
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2014, 11:57:17 pm »
I'll bet £100 that anyone who buys a pole directly from China (as some have on here) is not getting something that is the same as an extreme pole.  Yes, they might be saving money but given that we all berate any window cleaner who sells just on price it seems rich to compare probably quite different poles on price alone.

So I suspect it's not just "cutting out the middle man" - it's buying something different for less, which is hardly remarkable. 

What you're getting that is different for your smaller amount of money is a different, unknown, untested pole from a supplier whose quality control and design abilities are unknown to you with any guarantee presumably based upon shipping it back to China.  As long as you know that's what you're getting there's no problem but, in my opinion, the cash savings don't outweight the risks.  I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine.

Vin



How do you know the cash savings don't outweigh the risks?


I don't.  That's why I said "in my opinion".  I also said "I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine."

How much more equivocal do you think I could be?

Vin


rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2014, 12:06:52 am »
I don't.  That's why I said "in my opinion".  I also said "I'm sure that to some other people the saving's worth it, which is fine."

How much more equivocal do you think I could be?

Vin



I didn't mean to sound pedantic and I'm sorry if it read that way.

Rather, on what basis have you come to have that opinion?

I only ask because sometimes people have valid reasons for an opinion which they don't always say.

Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

Perfect Windows

  • Posts: 4334
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2014, 12:26:22 am »
Successful capitalism is based upon doing what you do best.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

I clean windows best out of all the things I do.  Alex providing poles is the best out of what he does.

I could spend time finding poles, researching them, ordering them and dealing with any problems but that time is better spent in cleaning windows to pay Alex (or whomever) to do all that for me.  He's better at it to the extent that I believe that I get a better result for my time if I clean windows for money (I'm good at that) and pay for his expertise in sourcing, building and shipping poles (which he's much better at than I ever will be)

There comes a point when you just have to buy things.  That point is to some extent arbitrary (to be daft, why aren't you buying carbon fibre and making it up into poles to cut out the Chinese manufacturer's profit?  And if you chose to do that, why aren't you making the carbon fibre, and so on until you're drilling for oil)  but for me it's after Alex.  For others, like you, clearly not.

So mine's what I consider to be a perfectly rational cut-off point where I can spend my time cleaning windows and growing my business.  For the same reason, I don't DIY my van system and why I pay for professional round management software.

Vin


rosskesava

  • Posts: 17015
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2014, 01:25:36 am »
Crickey.

I spent less than 5 minutes in total looking at and deciding to buy a pole from China. Just out of curiosity. It then took one quick email, 2 minutes, and pressing the send button, 2 seconds, reading the reply, 10 seconds, and ordering, 2 minutes. You could hardly call that 'spending time'. Some mornings I spend longer having a dump. Maybe I should spend less time having a dump and grow my business in the time I've saved.

It ain't no big shakes, it ain't no huge decision and I don't understand what's the big deal. In fact, I don't know why I am defending my decision.

If the pole I have bough turns out to be naff, then I've wasted my money. Simples eh? Don't take much working out does it? If it's a perfectly good pole then I've got a perfectly good pole..... der.....

Is it that to some on this forum buying anything other than Gardiners is beyond comprehension and that anyone who dares to do so is somehow stupid and daft and a CIU traitor?

So how did my decision to buy a pole from China go to not DIY fitting a van and having 'professional round management software'? Is there a hidden connection I am missing?

Jeepers.

To quote the phrase, in terms of this topic, I'm out. I can't be bothered to further argue the silly points being made.
Just chant..... Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. It's beats chanting Tory Tory or Labour Labour.

gary999

  • Posts: 8156
Re: are gardiners trying to force us to buymore expensive poles
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2014, 02:55:36 am »
Crickey.

I spent less than 5 minutes in total looking at and deciding to buy a pole from China. Just out of curiosity. It then took one quick email, 2 minutes, and pressing the send button, 2 seconds, reading the reply, 10 seconds, and ordering, 2 minutes. You could hardly call that 'spending time'. Some mornings I spend longer having a dump. Maybe I should spend less time having a dump and grow my business in the time I've saved.

It ain't no big shakes, it ain't no huge decision and I don't understand what's the big deal. In fact, I don't know why I am defending my decision.

If the pole I have bough turns out to be naff, then I've wasted my money. Simples eh? Don't take much working out does it? If it's a perfectly good pole then I've got a perfectly good pole..... der.....

Is it that to some on this forum buying anything other than Gardiners is beyond comprehension and that anyone who dares to do so is somehow stupid and daft and a CIU traitor?

So how did my decision to buy a pole from China go to not DIY fitting a van and having 'professional round management software'? Is there a hidden connection I am missing?

Jeepers.

To quote the phrase, in terms of this topic, I'm out. I can't be bothered to further argue the silly points being made.

Dont worry Ross me old mucka there will be always be some who need
to justify themselves and the decisions they make by critising the decisions
and choices made by others if they differ from there own ;)