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paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Van dead battery
« on: February 15, 2014, 09:54:06 pm »
Bought van having problems.
Drove home battery was dead in the morning , charged it , dead again so took to garage to check alternator and it's working fine, changed battery and it's still getting flat, there's no lights etc left on in van. The system is linked up to the van battery as it's only power source but there's nothing left on , can the pump and controller drain the battery when's it's not turned on?!? Baffled

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3512
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2014, 09:59:29 pm »
Battery has got a drain on it.

Did the garage not check the battery condition?

Very doubtful it's your pump etc. if the battery is good it should last till the next morning even if pump was running anyway.

New van battery needed I think.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2014, 10:03:16 pm »
 I changed battery for a spare I had that I used to run pump off in other van, it started this morning , tried it tonight and it's dead

Spruce

  • Posts: 8646
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2014, 10:09:50 pm »
Sound like a short if the second known battery is doing the same.

If you charge the battery with a terminal off and then gently put the terminal back on. Is there a spark that indicates that something is on.

If so then you need to identify what it is that is drawing current by a process of elimination. You may also need to check the earth strap on the engine block from the battery. They do corrode - steel and alloy with current is a bad mixture.

If you have a jumper lead, use the earth cable only from the negative terminal on the battery to another point on the block and see what happens.

If you bought it from a dealer - take it straight back.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 3512
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2014, 10:13:58 pm »
Hmmmmm,

Check all your wiring to pump and make sure it's ok.

It really shouldn't be that though. Definitely sounds like a drain on your battery.

In the mean time to get you going so your not stuck, stick it on charge at night ready for the morning.

Atleast you can get your work done.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2014, 10:22:32 pm »
Still got my other van just peed off as it's been in garage and spent money already and still not fixed, back to garage monday :(

Spruce

  • Posts: 8646
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2014, 10:24:55 pm »
Hmmmmm,

Check all your wiring to pump and make sure it's ok.

It really shouldn't be that though. Definitely sounds like a drain on your battery.

In the mean time to get you going so your not stuck, stick it on charge at night ready for the morning.

Atleast you can get your work done.

The new Varistreams do use current even when the unit of switched off. It equals about 25% of a fully charged 85amph leisure battery after about a week standing. This won't be the problem. But he could remove the fuse in the system to see.

I remember years ago we had an issue with a faulty regulator inside the alternator. The alternator was charging fine but when the engine was switched off current was going 'backwards' through the field coils to earth flattening the battery.

The way to check that it to remove the battery terminal. Then find the large nut on the alternator (usually a 10mm) and undo it. Then take the cable eye lug off and tape it up. If the terminal doesn't spark when you put the terminal back on the battery post then this is the problem. If it still sparks then it isn't.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2014, 10:29:33 pm »
Thanks for your advice spruce, but ain't got a clue bout that sort of stuff, I will mention what you said to garage tho see if it sparks of a light bulb, useless fekkers

Spruce

  • Posts: 8646
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2014, 10:30:59 pm »
I just remembered that we also had a short on the cigarette lighter that created havoc.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2014, 10:37:16 pm »
There is a parrot hands free kit on it but it's not lit wen ignition is off, hate people that lie about vans when they sell em, always have issues

SeanK

Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2014, 11:06:14 pm »
Is there an interior light that might be switched on in the back of the van?

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2014, 11:07:17 pm »
Na nothing

SeanK

Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2014, 11:09:51 pm »
Sound like a short if the second known battery is doing the same.

If you charge the battery with a terminal off and then gently put the terminal back on. Is there a spark that indicates that something is on.

If so then you need to identify what it is that is drawing current by a process of elimination. You may also need to check the earth strap on the engine block from the battery. They do corrode - steel and alloy with current is a bad mixture.

If you have a jumper lead, use the earth cable only from the negative terminal on the battery to another point on the block and see what happens.

If you bought it from a dealer - take it straight back.



Spruce, would it not spark anyway because of the central locking?

Spruce

  • Posts: 8646
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 11:47:07 pm »
Sound like a short if the second known battery is doing the same.

If you charge the battery with a terminal off and then gently put the terminal back on. Is there a spark that indicates that something is on.

If so then you need to identify what it is that is drawing current by a process of elimination. You may also need to check the earth strap on the engine block from the battery. They do corrode - steel and alloy with current is a bad mixture.

If you have a jumper lead, use the earth cable only from the negative terminal on the battery to another point on the block and see what happens.

If you bought it from a dealer - take it straight back.



Spruce, would it not spark anyway because of the central locking?

It shouldn't if the central locking is either on or off but this is a good place to start looking. There will be a minor spark as the electronics get a power supply, but it shouldn't be like a welding machine arc at the electrode.

The first place to start looking is something that isn't ignition related as the ignition switch 'deadens'/switches off most items, ie screen heaters, wipers, electric window motors, etc. So a central locking solenoid on the doors is a good place to start as that isn't linked to the ignition. They can sieze up and not switch off.

The radio is another item that may or may not be linked to the ignition and be suspect. The cigarette lighter is another if the lighter hasn't popped out.

The early Ford Transit Connect were notorious for a faulty charge cable from the alternator to the battery. The insulation around the wires seemed to burn leaving the cables exposed. They didn't come in contact with any body work but when they got wet they shorted current to earth.

Again the early Ford Transit Connect suffers from an ecu fault that turns the interior lights on including the cargo bay area.
Switching the lights off at the switch wasn't good enough as the relays were still activated. The short term solution was to remove the relays that are situated in the fuse holder behind the glovebox. The long term solution was to get the ecu software (or is it firmware) updated which Ford refused to do under warranty. They were charging £80 for the electronic upgrade a few years ago.

The trouble is that there aren't fault finding mechanics around much these days - they are parts fitters. The fault finders all work for the recovery firms like the AA, RAC, etc. and they were/are jolly good. When they recovered a broken down vehicle, 9 out of 10 fault observations they reported were correctly diagnosed.

We had a Multispace come into the workshop with water in the drivers footwell. The mechanic who got the job hadn't the faintest idea where to start looking for the problem. He was told to open the bonnet and look for a hole in the box section around the windscreen wiper motor area. His solution was to get onto the technical helpline at Slough and see if anyone else had experienced the problem and what the solution was.

Fortunately for him, it was a grommet that had been ommitted on the assembly line and they had a picture of where the grommet needed to be fitted and the part number of the grommet. That took half an hour. If he had opened the bonnet and looked where he was told he would have seen it in seconds. Then to add insult to injury, they phoned the customer to tell him to hold onto the courtesy car for another day, cancelled the job that the courtesy car was allocated to the following day and ordered the grommet. They had the exact size grommet in a box of assorted grommets in the spares dept, but he was too stupid to ask/look.
  
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Smudger

  • Posts: 13459
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2014, 07:31:56 am »
Morning lads, sorry to here about the battery problem, can't help you I was going to be cheeky and ask spruce on his thoughts about this...  ;D

In one of the vans every time we put the lights on the radio loses all power ie turns off completely turn lights off radio back on,  have looked at wiring but typically it's all short and hard to see, would there be anything else to look at?  ( ps was absolutely fine until we put in a 3 way ciggi lighter accessory ( now removed )

Darran


Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience

Paul Coleman

Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2014, 08:39:48 am »
Had a similar problem once - though not sure if it's exactly as you describe.
Leisure battery was duff.  Split charge relay was not wired up correctly.
It meant that the leisure battery was drawing from the vehicle battery even when engine was off.
Well, that's what I was told by those whose opinion I needed to trust because I don't know how to set them up.
The fix was simple.  Just wire the relay correctly.  A simple matter of altering a wire.  However, I needed to leave it to someone else as I wasn't party to the relay's schematic.

I suppose that a temporary workaround could be to disconnect the leisure battery from the relay and bench charge it each night.  Not ideal but only a stopgap.

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2014, 08:53:31 am »
i dont think its got a seperate battery , cant see one, as far as i know its all rigged to van battery.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8646
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2014, 09:06:51 am »
Morning lads, sorry to here about the battery problem, can't help you I was going to be cheeky and ask spruce on his thoughts about this...  ;D

In one of the vans every time we put the lights on the radio loses all power ie turns off completely turn lights off radio back on,  have looked at wiring but typically it's all short and hard to see, would there be anything else to look at?  ( ps was absolutely fine until we put in a 3 way ciggi lighter accessory ( now removed )

Darran





Hi Darran.

Usually this problem affects non factory supply radios.

I would start by removing the radio and checking the connections to the back. Non factory supply radios have cable adaptors that allow a standard radio to fit a couple of different configurations, changed with push in connectors.

If the radio is wired in to switch off with the ignition, does the same thing happen if you change the plug over to the one that has constant power where you have to manually switch the radio off?

If it does then the chances are that the radio's earth wire is plugged into the illumination wire rather than the earth wire. When you put the light on current is supplied to this illumination wire and the earth is lost - radio becomes dead.

Sorry, but it is a fiddly job to remove that lot. If you are doing it, watch the aerial cable doesn't pull out and disappear into the back of the dashboard.

  
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

ray mck

  • Posts: 373
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2014, 09:33:33 am »
Sorry to hear about your van, try and take the radio out and leave it out.see if that works if not phone the guy up and ask him about the van. Good luck😡

paul ette

  • Posts: 631
Re: Van dead battery
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2014, 10:41:17 am »
right spruce you seem to know a lot about this stuff, ive just followed the wiring from controller and pump and its rigged up to fuse box, thats gotta cause problems aint it??