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gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
limestone pin holes
« on: February 13, 2014, 08:06:06 am »


I have quite a large kitchen area  to clean and seal, limestone  throughout, she has had her cleaner on her hands and knees cleaning all the grouting, she has pointed out small holes in the limestone concerned about the dirt ingrained in them.  I have pointed out that these holes are natural part of limestone and often black , fossilised , Will they come clean? she wants to know  .
Does any body have any method of improving these?
Geof
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Graeme Smith

Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 08:31:48 am »
sounds like travertine?

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 11:03:14 am »


Gaeame,  I thought both travertine and limestone had pinholes  :-\   and yes I admit travertine  tends to have more I was assured by customer it was Lincolnshire limestone, and I hold my hands up and admit I am no expert on identification , but happy learning  :)   

well what ever it is , can these holes which collect dirt be cleaned effectively? 
Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 01:03:46 pm »
Geoff

Pick the worst area to do a small test
Pre wet the area with plan watere
Apply Aqua Mix HDT&G Cleaner dilkuted 3:1 and allow to dwell
Agitate with Rotary Machine fitted with soft to medium brush
Sprinkle a little honing powder into the mix and agitate again
Vac up solution
Rinse
Vac up again

She will think she has a new floor

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics Ltd
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 01:25:06 pm »

Thanks kevin,

Looks like I better order some hdt and grout cleaner  , she has around 90 sq yds , what sort of price is that solution for 90 sq yds  , I will also need some ltp sealer  , and as she doesn't want a shine  I guess a  colour intensifier/sealer will suit her .

need to get a quote in so estimate for products would be great , I am confident will get :D 
Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 04:49:00 pm »

Thanks kevin,

Looks like I better order some hdt and grout cleaner  , she has around 90 sq yds , what sort of price is that solution for 90 sq yds  , I will also need some ltp sealer  , and as she doesn't want a shine  I guess a  colour intensifier/sealer will suit her .

need to get a quote in so estimate for products would be great , I am confident will get :D 
Geoff

Geoff

Send me an e mail with the measurements and I will work out what you need and e mail you back.

tilinglogistics@hotmail.com


Kev Martin
Tilinbg Logistics Ltd
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 06:46:30 pm »
....alternativley, I use either Silicone Carbide and\or Diamond brushes depending on the contamination levels. For Limestone or Travertine, you would not need a particularly course brush. By the time your fancy chemical cleaner has (or hasn't) worked, you will have most of it done.
How big is the floor?
Any chance of some photos?
Where is the Job?

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2014, 07:01:22 am »
How much is a 17" Diamond Brush?                             £
How much is a 17"Silicone Carbide Brush?                   £

Are they in stock?                                                       YES/NO
Can you buy them for any make of Rotary from stock?  YES/NO

I am fascinated as to how this process actually works better.  So that I and other forum members can understand can you answer the following questions?   Incidentally the area is 90 Sq Yds just over 82M2!

1.  How does an abrasive brush like Diamond or SIC get the dirt out of the pinholes?
2.  Moreover how does an abrasive mechanical method remove residue and impregnated old sealer?
3.  In which way is your suggested process better than using a "Belt N Braces" chemical and mechanical approach?
4.  Please explain which grit of diamond and SIC brush you normally use for this process?
5.  How much wear will there be on the stone and on each of the different brushes you have suggested?
6.  You suggest two different brushes !  Which is actually better?  Why?
7.  After cleaning with whichever brush you use do you actually rinse as well?
8.  If so what with?
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

gwrightson

  • Posts: 3617
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2014, 07:41:55 pm »


Im waiting with interest

Geoff
who ever said dont knock before u try ,i never tried dog crap but i know i wouldnt like  haha

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2014, 08:30:06 pm »
How much is a 17" Diamond Brush?                             £
How much is a 17"Silicone Carbide Brush?                   £

Are they in stock?                                                       YES/NO
Can you buy them for any make of Rotary from stock?  YES/NO

I am fascinated as to how this process actually works better.  So that I and other forum members can understand can you answer the following questions?   Incidentally the area is 90 Sq Yds just over 82M2!

1.  How does an abrasive brush like Diamond or SIC get the dirt out of the pinholes?
2.  Moreover how does an abrasive mechanical method remove residue and impregnated old sealer?
3.  In which way is your suggested process better than using a "Belt N Braces" chemical and mechanical approach?
4.  Please explain which grit of diamond and SIC brush you normally use for this process?
5.  How much wear will there be on the stone and on each of the different brushes you have suggested?
6.  You suggest two different brushes !  Which is actually better?  Why?
7.  After cleaning with whichever brush you use do you actually rinse as well?
8.  If so what with?

you have already had prices.
You have already been told how they work.
You claim to have done your own tests.
stop wasting my time.

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2014, 08:51:15 pm »


Im waiting with interest

Geoff
....what for... the Aqua Mix to work!! ;D ;D ;D ;D

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2014, 10:48:36 am »
The information was not for me! 
It was for the benefit of the CIU Forum Members! 
It was your chance to answer step by step and explain the benefits of your system over tried and tested methods

You think I am not open to change but in truth I probably work harder than anyone in this industry to improve things. I just need to understand  the science of any new method and a common sense explanation.

I am very close to launching our Diamond, Ceramic, Brass and SIC Brush Systems and maybe I am just too thick to see it but the truth of the matter is that in all my testing both SIC & Ceramic are better for cleaning.  Ceramic has another great use and the Diamond Brushes work well on polishing everything with the exception of one stone.

So in essence and without abuse a candid answer to my post above will actually help in my research!  But I understand if you don't reply as well.  Incidentally if you gave me definitive prices I have no recollection of them so repeating them on here will really help in your future sales of them if yours are as good as you say they are!
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2014, 05:58:26 pm »
The information was not for me! 
It was for the benefit of the CIU Forum Members! 
It was your chance to answer step by step and explain the benefits of your system over tried and tested methods

You think I am not open to change but in truth I probably work harder than anyone in this industry to improve things. I just need to understand  the science of any new method and a common sense explanation.

I am very close to launching our Diamond, Ceramic, Brass and SIC Brush Systems and maybe I am just too thick to see it but the truth of the matter is that in all my testing both SIC & Ceramic are better for cleaning.  Ceramic has another great use and the Diamond Brushes work well on polishing everything with the exception of one stone.

So in essence and without abuse a candid answer to my post above will actually help in my research!  But I understand if you don't reply as well.  Incidentally if you gave me definitive prices I have no recollection of them so repeating them on here will really help in your future sales of them if yours are as good as you say they are!
If ANY forum members want information, they tend to email me. You can do the same if you like...its rob.hall@btinternet.com feel free!
In the past, I have sold brushes to members of this forum and non members who have asked for my advice on certain aspects of cleaning...then sold them the appropriate brush.

You say it was "my chance" to answer step by step....??? What exactly to you mean...."MY CHANCE"   I had no idea this was your forum?? ???

...You work harder than anyone in the industry to improve things do you? Funny that I am selling brushes to clean floors and you have been selling your aqua mix...then, because I am selling brushes which work...you start selling them too. Strange! I feel very honoured that you want what I have brought to the industry...watch this space, there may be more for you to copy!! ;D

ANYWAY.....as I am not ignorant, arrogant or aggressive and like to help people, I will make these comments..... 

Silicone Carbide is a good cleaning brush, I have been told by 2 brush manufacturers that Ceramic is just a fad and no better than Silicone Carbide and nowhere near Diamond. I will be honest with you, I have never tried brass. Maybe you can tell me what you would use brass for and why? This may help with YOUR future sales  ;D
Diamond Brushes will strip off sealers on awkward floors such as riven sandstone long before your Aqua Mix stuff, is this why you are selling brushes? As you know, I tried Aqua Mix Sealer & Coating Remover which, you may recall, did not work. The Diamond Brushes murdered it.

I am not too sure about your research so far...you mention about diamond brushes being used to polish. This may be the case but as you will no doubt be aware, the brushes prime use is to antique stone floors, I would still promote my SAMICH diamonds to polish. You are aware of SAMICH as they are the manufacturers of KLINDEX equipment.
 
4' brushes...
SILICNE CARBIDE £20.00
DIAMOND £40.00
17" DIAMOND £99.00

QUANTITY DISCOUNTS AVAILABLE
ALL PLUS P&P AND VAT

Hope this helps with your research, and good luck with your new products

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2014, 10:43:38 pm »
Rob
I was antiking floors 8 years ago with brushes from Klindex they were not diamond then and unless things have changed they still aren't to my knowledge. I will however speak to Klindex and ask them.  The fact is up until a few years ago you hadn't even seen a Klindex Levighetor or the Samich equivalent let alone used one because had you have, you would not have bought that TOY MACHINE you showed me on my course. Further more you haven't answered the questions because you don't have answers.  A diamond brush will not remove impregnating sealer that has impregnated because not even Metal Sintered Diamonds can unless you grind down beyond the point the sealer has penetrated to.  I do not bear grudges and as an act of goodwill I am running another course on the 12th March you are welcome to come over and bring some of your Samich Equipment and demonstrate itand demonstrate it. That will give you a decent audience to launch it and we can then compare it against Klindex range.  I for one have never used a Samich so it will be good for me. In addition bring your range of diamond brushes over and I can test them against ours and if they are that good at that price I will buy them from you because I can't even buy them for what you are selling them for.
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2014, 11:24:26 pm »
Rob
I was antiking floors 8 years ago with brushes from Klindex they were not diamond then and unless things have changed they still aren't to my knowledge. I will however speak to Klindex and ask them.  The fact is up until a few years ago you hadn't even seen a Klindex Levighetor or the Samich equivalent let alone used one because had you have, you would not have bought that TOY MACHINE you showed me on my course. Further more you haven't answered the questions because you don't have answers.  A diamond brush will not remove impregnating sealer that has impregnated because not even Metal Sintered Diamonds can unless you grind down beyond the point the sealer has penetrated to.  I do not bear grudges and as an act of goodwill I am running another course on the 12th March you are welcome to come over and bring some of your Samich Equipment and demonstrate itand demonstrate it. That will give you a decent audience to launch it and we can then compare it against Klindex range.  I for one have never used a Samich so it will be good for me. In addition bring your range of diamond brushes over and I can test them against ours and if they are that good at that price I will buy them from you because I can't even buy them for what you are selling them for.
You are quiet right, I have only just purchased The Samich machines and well impressed with them I am too thank you.

Oh, yes my dear friend I have answers, but I am not prepared to help with your research, only a fool would.

MY diamond brushes remove sealers, they remove a small amount of the stone surface too, enough to apply a new coat of sealer. (You really should know that, being the knowledgable person that you claim to be) Yes, yes, there will be 'some' sealer still in there, so tell me, will your AMS&CR get deep down and remove 100%? In my tests, it cannot remove the surface seal never mind in the stone.

As you know Kevin, Samich are the ORIGINALS, they make Klindex, why would I waste my time coming with my machines??? They are exactly the same as yours??? What is to be gained?? You should have known that???

I would be only to happy to supply brushes to you. But judging by your comments about buying all the Rockys that Amir was selling and then not ordering any, I think you could be wasting my time too!

I have done enough research to know that MY brushes do what I want them to do.

You seem to think that you were the first person EVER to touch a piece of stone.

I do not claim to know everything and for that reason, I like to go on new courses...anything wrong with that?

Like I have said before, my family have been in quarrying and demolition for as long as I can remember, I have seen more stone work than you ever will.

You are like a child in the playground. Entertaining, but sad....very sad. If you want to sell brushes, go ahead, people will buy them from you, probably more than will buy from me, so give them a try...why not? They are far better than chemicals, and your customers will approve...not everyone likes chemicals. Obviously, there are some jobs that will require the use of certain chemicals (that actually work!) but I am happy with my methods.

Does this help? Or do you still want to rant on about YOU and YOUR experiance?

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2014, 12:00:53 am »
OK I have tried!  Frankly I am fed up now with your abusive negativity.  I was trying to be friendly but you have confirmed my thoughts. Thank you! 
"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2014, 12:18:05 am »
OK I have tried!  Frankly I am fed up now with your abusive negativity.  I was trying to be friendly but you have confirmed my thoughts. Thank you! 
My "ABUSIVE NEGATIVITY"????

You have got some nerve, I will give you that!

Friendly...I missed that, where was that then????

You have still not answered MY question about Brass brushes???

And YOU call me Negative.

Do me a favour Kevin...do not EVER offend me with your rants again. You really do get on my nerves. You are the most obnoxious little **** I have ever come across. Lecture everyone else, but do not pretend to be all friendly when you have a hidden agenda going on.

You have never had the decency to answer the sealer question that you set. Chris has asked a million times and your ignorance has worn thin with him too by the look of it.

You make yourself look really stupid asking to buy all Amirs Rocky stock and then back out of it...Why? Because you like the sound of you almighty importance. You must be really embarrassed with yourself.

 

Kev Martin

  • Posts: 6954
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2014, 08:55:17 am »
Rob

You make yourself look really stupid asking to buy all Amirs Rocky stock and then back out of it...Why? Because you like the sound of you almighty importance. You must be really embarrassed with yourself.

The only idiot on here is you!  For genuinely believing AMIR in the first place!  
Firstly I never said I would buy all his stock!  I said i would buy 50 Rocky's
Secondly he never sold one single machine for the price and if he did he lost money!
Thirdly  I asked him for a Proforma Invoice TWICE
Fourthly He never had the stock anyway I  checked

Finally you clearly don't know me at all if you believe I do not have the resources to pay for £23,000 + VAT worth of goods.

The sealer question was answered "Learn to Read" even to the Point of Tony agreeing with the "ROB HALL (I HAVE 28 YEARS EXPERIENCE ) METHOD OF SEALING SLATE" just to shut you up but even then you failed to see he was humoring you ;D ;D ;D ;D


Now the subject really is closed and personally I am off on holiday to Prague for a rest! 

"Natural Stone Restoration Specialists" Tel: 0121 773 9129
www.tilinglogistics.co.uk | www.marblelife.co.uk  http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Tiling-Logistics

Rob Hall

  • Posts: 564
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2014, 10:48:30 am »
Rob

You make yourself look really stupid asking to buy all Amirs Rocky stock and then back out of it...Why? Because you like the sound of you almighty importance. You must be really embarrassed with yourself.

The only idiot on here is you!  For genuinely believing AMIR in the first place!  
Firstly I never said I would buy all his stock!  I said i would buy 50 Rocky's
Secondly he never sold one single machine for the price and if he did he lost money!
Thirdly  I asked him for a Proforma Invoice TWICE
Fourthly He never had the stock anyway I  checked

Finally you clearly don't know me at all if you believe I do not have the resources to pay for £23,000 + VAT worth of goods.

The sealer question was answered "Learn to Read" even to the Point of Tony agreeing with the "ROB HALL (I HAVE 28 YEARS EXPERIENCE ) METHOD OF SEALING SLATE" just to shut you up but even then you failed to see he was humoring you ;D ;D ;D ;D


Now the subject really is closed and personally I am off on holiday to Prague for a rest! 


Sounds like you need it Kevin, get your blood pressure checked before you fly, my god, you are going to explode!!

So, you don't have the money eh? Is that why you go on holiday in February? lastminute.com is it?

Funny sense of humour young Tony has, pathetic defence of the wrong answer though Kevin. If you are going to try and humour me, do it with some humour in it, that is very important when trying to crack a joke.

Kevin, I and all the rest of this forums members can read and we all seem to fail to see the answer to your drawn out and pathetic thread. So, once and for all.....what DO YOU think the answer is?

Go carefull now won't you, we will all miss you :'(

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: limestone pin holes
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2014, 11:18:51 pm »
17" DIAMOND £99.00

QUANTITY DISCOUNTS AVAILABLE
ALL PLUS P&P AND VAT



Sold. How do I pay. what's lead time. What machine fitments?