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Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Gimmi the money!
« on: November 08, 2013, 10:30:45 am »
We all know that our job from time to time has the customer that will not pay and owe you money, some more than others. Do you really have to accept this as part of the job and move on? What provisions do you have to protect yourself if any, insurance, service agreement do you use letters before action?

Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 10:31:23 am »
Does it depend on the value?

GB Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 3262
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 11:01:36 am »
Ive been thinking about this as of late due to being stung by about 4 or 5 custy's this year. As far as i know if they owe under £25 your can't take legal action? So i just write off the debt after a few polite texts, phone calls and door knocks.

clarkson

  • Posts: 1027
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 11:34:29 am »
Hi lee
We are just about export data from George to aworka, so got my admin girl to tidy up the data so we get of to a good start.

One thing she found was over 800 quid in old debts on houses some going back to last year.  We wrote of tiny amounts over 3 months old especially if they had  cancelled.

However some were amounts of 40 and 50 pound.

So we wrote to them politely but firmly . A few were clerical errors on our part and we corrected them but some started paying in full.

One woman was 12 pounds but only ever got to do fronts at 6 owed us 42 pounds from 2012 Paid up in full with an apology.

400 of the bad debt collected in so far.

So I think a letter on a letterhead gets results.

I have thought of getting people to sign up with some basics t&cs like paying immediately and having  cleaned every visit etc. this would just be to get some commitment from them and would I doubt offer any legal protection.

Just best to grin and bare it I suspect.

Cheers

John


Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 01:04:22 pm »
Hi lee
We are just about export data from George to aworka, so got my admin girl to tidy up the data so we get of to a good start.

One thing she found was over 800 quid in old debts on houses some going back to last year.  We wrote of tiny amounts over 3 months old especially if they had  cancelled.

However some were amounts of 40 and 50 pound.

So we wrote to them politely but firmly . A few were clerical errors on our part and we corrected them but some started paying in full.

One woman was 12 pounds but only ever got to do fronts at 6 owed us 42 pounds from 2012 Paid up in full with an apology.

400 of the bad debt collected in so far.

So I think a letter on a letterhead gets results.

I have thought of getting people to sign up with some basics t&cs like paying immediately and having  cleaned every visit etc. this would just be to get some commitment from them and would I doubt offer any legal protection.

Just best to grin and bare it I suspect.

Cheers

John



Hey man, how would you get your T&C's over to your current business base? Can you give us a sample of the type of letter you send it may help ppl reading this post. We have others sending us there service agreement so we are hoping to share this all so that ppl can pick out which best suits there business :)

Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 01:05:12 pm »
Ive been thinking about this as of late due to being stung by about 4 or 5 custy's this year. As far as i know if they owe under £25 your can't take legal action? So i just write off the debt after a few polite texts, phone calls and door knocks.

That is a shame. What are the costs for legal action nowadays over £25.00... is it worth it?

Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 01:32:07 pm »
Example of T&C's for the US/AUS markets

Terms of Service
We don’t like fine print but like to be as clear as possible about our service. We have tried to keep it simple without any legal terms but explaining our method as well as what is included and what is not. Please feel free to ask us any further questions you may have. Happy customers have kept Big Red WIndow Cleaning growing for over four years and we want to keep it that way.

Furniture & Blinds - we are able to move small items of furniture, however heavy items may not be moved for the safety of our staff or to reduce risk of damage to floors. We would appreciate blinds with CORDS to be drawn prior to commencement (ie. curtains and shutters are ok to leave to us).

Other Trades - in most cases we can work quite easily around other trades, however there are some instances where it can severely impact on our time (eg. if you have scheduled an electrical contractor to work on outdoor fittings then external window cleaning may not be suitable at the same time).

Tracks - tracks are brushed and vacuumed of heavy debris, then at the time of cleaning the glass we spray inside the track to remove the remaining finer debris. We cannot guarantee they will look new but we are sure you will be impressed with the results. If track cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote.

Internal Frame Cleaning - frames are wiped with a damp cotton cloth and detergent solution. This removes surface dirt, however will not remove heavy staining (and if we have not inspected inside will not include mould removal). If internal frame cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote.

External Frame Cleaning - frames are washed prior to glass with our water fed pole. If you have old paintwork there is a limit to how much scrubbing can be done as we do not want paint flakes everywhere. If external frame cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote.

Fly Screens - all screens are different and respond to cleaning treatments differently. In most cases fly screens are removed from the window to be washed and dried before replacing. Some fly screens that are old, brittle, loose or have existing holes may have been photographed during the quote process. These screens will generally not be included in the price as we would not risk further damage to them.

Fixed Screens - diamond pattern and regular fly screens that have been screwed or riveted in to position are considered fixed screens. They can be cleaned by wiping first inside to remove most heavy debris such as cobwebs and if requested can be pressure washed from the outside afterwards. Although usually this methods produces excellent results, screens that have not been cleaned in a long time or are in an area where heavy dust and grime builds up, we have found can dry with a streaky look. Because there are so many tiny holes and places for dirt to settle, we find it almost impossible to remove it all. We cannot apply continuous streams of water from our pressure washers because no windows or doors we have come across seal properly and the internal tracks fill up quickly and can overflow and flood inside the home. Alternatively if you would like screwed in screens to be removed a charge per screw to remove and replace is applicable and would be shown on your quote. Let us know ASAP if this is something you would like amended on your quote. If screen cleaning has been requested it will be listed on your quote

Screen Sealant - we offer a screen sealing service for vinyl screens only. It can help your screens look better and last longer. It is not recommended for old, brittle, loose or torn screens. If screen sealing has been requested it will be listed on your quote.

Rain Guarantee - if you have requested on of our packages, a Rain Guarantee will most likely be included, either 3, 5 or 10 days. The Rain Guarantee covers external glass only (ie. panels exposed to the elements) that you feel has been dirtied by rain during the covered period. It does not cover bird / bat droppings, toddler attacks, dogs noses or mud pie fights.

Completion of Service -please inspect the work carried out as we prefer you to be happy with everything prior to departure. We do provide a 48 hour window after completion in case anything has been overlooked, however cannot return after this time except for our Rain Guarantee.

Payment for Service - our quotes are final and there are NO hidden extras for going overtime. The only time a price may change is when additional services are requested, quoted and agreed to either before, during or after the original service. In most cases we will email your invoice to you on completion of the service so that you can easily make payment. Our invoice contains a link to pay by Credit Card or PayPal as well as bank details for Direct Deposit payments. Our staff can also accept cash. Company cheques are accepted and personal cheques with prior approval. Electronic receipts are issued for all payments including cash.

wpclean

Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 03:23:18 pm »
Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones.       For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.

dannymack

  • Posts: 1624
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 03:30:40 pm »
I had one customer I do quite abit of work for owed
Me 7 months money at one point, as he sort of became a friend, he owed me £12,000 he eventually gave me a £7,000 cheque but still owed me £5,000 and I was still giving more invoices each month of which eventually got on top and paid. Been a good payer for quite some time but now owes me £1,800  that's without this months invoice. I know he will pay but pees me off as the work I do for him, he as been paid for, I think he try's to live beyond his means !!!! 😳

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 07:27:21 pm »
Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones.       For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.

+1.

John
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 07:51:09 pm »
I had one customer I do quite abit of work for owed
Me 7 months money at one point, as he sort of became a friend, he owed me £12,000 he eventually gave me a £7,000 cheque but still owed me £5,000 and I was still giving more invoices each month of which eventually got on top and paid. Been a good payer for quite some time but now owes me £1,800  that's without this months invoice. I know he will pay but pees me off as the work I do for him, he as been paid for, I think he try's to live beyond his means !!!! 😳

Set him on gocardless Danny.
Spin it to him 'I know you're busy so this may help...'
£2 maximum charge.
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 10:57:23 am »
Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones.       For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.

Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?

Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 10:58:14 am »
I had one customer I do quite abit of work for owed
Me 7 months money at one point, as he sort of became a friend, he owed me £12,000 he eventually gave me a £7,000 cheque but still owed me £5,000 and I was still giving more invoices each month of which eventually got on top and paid. Been a good payer for quite some time but now owes me £1,800  that's without this months invoice. I know he will pay but pees me off as the work I do for him, he as been paid for, I think he try's to live beyond his means !!!! 😳

Too much money owed :(

Total shine cleaning services

  • Posts: 895
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2013, 11:00:44 am »
I've never gone more than one clean unless bill has been paid, even with our commercial customers, had a few who have tried it but debt letters seem to do the job for us and then we drop them immediately, I've lost one £8 in last three years as went to knock but customer had moved

Graham

Johnny B

  • Posts: 2385
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2013, 12:23:48 pm »
Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones.       For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.

Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?

No you don't have to accept the loss. I walk away and move on rather than to have to deal with the stress of it all. Others will fight it all the way. Nothing wrong with that. I admire those who have the tenacity which I lack.

John
Being diplomatic is being able to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.

Lee Burbidge

  • Posts: 2287
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2013, 03:05:46 pm »
Just drop, and move on, it is part of the job sifting through bad ones.       For me personally I prefer to do without the hassle.

Ok, so accept the loss? Part of the job and all that.... do you have to accept the loss?

No you don't have to accept the loss. I walk away and move on rather than to have to deal with the stress of it all. Others will fight it all the way. Nothing wrong with that. I admire those who have the tenacity which I lack.

John

But isnt that accepting the loss by walking away. Is it worth having your customers sign a service agreement providing the amount is over 25.00 and you can claim it back through small claims?

Nathanael Jones

  • Posts: 5596
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2013, 03:53:20 pm »
So here's a question:

T's & C's might be useful for residential customers - but what about huge "one off" cleans?
I've done builders cleans on apartment blocks before & the bill came to a few grand & I had massive issues & 14 months of fighting to get paid just half of what I was owed - another job was €1100 and I never saw a cent. Terms & conditions didn't help me there & neither did threats of legal action.

My solution at the time was simply to stop doing that kind of work,.. but I now wonder if there is a better solution - perhaps an escrow service or pre-authorisation service like gocardless?

bobplum

  • Posts: 5602
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2013, 03:57:51 pm »
We all know that our job from time to time has the customer that will not pay and owe you money, some more than others. Do you really have to accept this as part of the job and move on? What provisions do you have to protect yourself if any, insurance, service agreement do you use letters before action?

1) standing order
2) one clean. one payment policy

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2013, 04:02:52 pm »
So here's a question:

T's & C's might be useful for residential customers - but what about huge "one off" cleans?
I've done builders cleans on apartment blocks before & the bill came to a few grand & I had massive issues & 14 months of fighting to get paid just half of what I was owed - another job was €1100 and I never saw a cent. Terms & conditions didn't help me there & neither did threats of legal action.

My solution at the time was simply to stop doing that kind of work,.. but I now wonder if there is a better solution - perhaps an escrow service or pre-authorisation service like gocardless?


Get the local scallies to keep smashing them.
Only cost you a few can of Stella.
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

dannymack

  • Posts: 1624
Re: Gimmi the money!
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2013, 06:41:42 pm »
Darren what's gocardless never heard of it ?
When customers owe quite a few outstanding Invoices you can't start sending dent letters as they can always get someone else as there's loads of windys out there and the big company's won't give a crap if its your company or someone else's who clean there windows. They pay in the end that's the main thing. I get on really well with all mine but the ones that are slow paying are normally management company's whom I never see as I just send invoice off to the head offices.