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Poll

we have had domestic cleans, but what do we charge for general office cleaning?inc vat if reg. i'm not yet.

£7 - £8+ pcph
£9 - £10+ pcph
£11 - £12+ pcph
£13+ pcph
job price not by the hour.

BSF

  • Posts: 351
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2006, 10:52:37 pm »
Tim,

If a company asks for a quote, of course they work out how much per hour it will cost them, the decision maker has to justify the cost.

Regards

Paul
Regards

BSF

CMS

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2006, 07:54:17 am »
As I said CMS: Never quote a job that includes Toilet rolls, hand towels, hand soap, you can throw average figures around all day, that means nothing... 1.9metres per day, thats shocking, I go before I go to work ;D ...

Of course, I should have qualified it a bit more.

Wages at 57% is fine on a contract with a value of up to say £1500 a month. Over and above thatthe wage 'percentage' will get higher as you start to compete with the Nationals. When I had Ford Motor Company at Dagenham under my control in 1991 the wage bill was 82% but it didn't matter on a contract worth £4m a year.

I was talking about the type of work that Lisa was competing for.

And yes, if you were quoting £8-9 per hour on a contract worth under £1500 a month you would be struggling.

To depreciate the equipment on a contract priced like that you'd have to have it for 10 years!!

I cant recall Lisa mentioning the size of the contract ???

An £18,000pa contract, 38hrs per week, I'd take it on for £9.00 per hour.

I thought the site you mentioned employed their own cleaners, what company did you work for? £4million for cleaning per year, at £5.00 per hour thats 15,384 hrs per week,,,, thats some hours CMS  ::) did the cleaners build the cars aswell?

Sorry I didn't get back to this last night.....................got involved with something else.

I'll try and answer each of your points in turn so forgive me if I appear to be jumping from subject to subject.

You say NEVER quote to provide consumable items. I agree with you, it's always best not to BUT in some cases it can't be avoided. On the larger contracts that involve filling in tender documents it's often necessary. If you don't do it you're out of the frame. As Tim said (and I said earlier) there are formulas for working this out but I avoid it wherever possible.

Lisa DID discuss the size of the contract on another topic. She was asking whether 1 cleaner for two hours is better than two cleaners for one hour.

An £18,000 contract at £9.00 per hour is something that I'd refuse. If you paid 'minimum wage' i.e. £5.05 per hour your wages would be 57% BUT you haven't added anything on for holiday pay, ENI yet. Your TRUE wages would be nearer 62%. Then you've got your materials (4%), that brings your costs up to 66%.

Now then - equipment. You'd probably have to depreciate it at another 2% a month and we're up to 68% - DIRECT COSTS!

Indirect costs...............management, supervision, training, H & S, admin, fuel...................and the list goes on. All out of your remaining 32%. It doesn't leave a lot does it?

Now then, the Ford site at Dagenham didn't employ their own cleaners. I worked for NES Limited at the time (who have now had a name change). As you may or not know Ford is/was a huge site comprising Engine factory, Assembly works, Paint shop and many many additional sites and exterior areas.

The cost of the contract was £4m per annum but of course it wasn't all cleaning hours (I thought you'd be sensible enough to realise that without me having to spell it out). The cleaning hours were only a small part of it. The other part of the contract was for :

Process equipment cleaning (roll test booths, conveyor pits, paint ovens etc.)
Waste management (compactors, balers, tow trucks, skips etc.)
Janitorial Supplies (YES! indeed........toilet rolls, soaps, industrial wipes).
Exterior cleaning.
Grounds maintenance.

The wage content for the cleaning hours was at 82%.

Finally, it's very easy to make assumptions about a posters experience on forums like this. Without enough information on their profile it's hard to judge whether they actually know what you are talking about.

I assumed you were actually more experienced than it seems you actually are and I apologise for making that assumption. When you are next involved with the topic I'll try and explain myself better.

CMS

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2006, 08:09:33 am »
Arthur

I dont work out my tenders by the hour.....as all are different to each other.

I remember reading somewhere that each "account" is like a fingerprint.....when it comes to cleaning, no two "accounts" are alike.

So i try to do a thorough survey of the customers premises.....then, like every one else i determine the amount of labour that is needed to complete the job.

Once i have done that, i look at my notes and work out what cleaning materials, equipment etc that i would roughly use in a year.

Also included would be holiday pay, Uniforms, Insurance costs, Administration charges, Management fee (my wages - usually around 2 hours per week.....but would depend on the size of the contract and how long i will be there for the weekly visit), training....usually try to account for 15 hours per year per employee....and not forgetting a hanson profit ontop  ::)

After i have come to a grand total, i then double check my figures by determining the % of labour - i try to get to Karls suggested 57%.....but the two contracts i have done have varied between a 55% one and a 61% one.

The system i like to use above, was the same system i used quite comfortably when i ran my own cleaning business up till 3 years ago.....However, if i had time to do the maths, i may be surprised to find that the average cost per hour may well be similar for each contract...... :)

It would be fun to find out the average price per square footage of a typical commercial enviroment to triple check the figures......but i like it complicated......and have a feeling that this was discussed around a year and a half ago.

Any one have a price on the average square foot for cleaning??

Regards

Tim

Tim

You might not, but the customer does, if a customer asks you for a quote, they just divide the cost by the number of hours your quote states.

As I've said the bigger the customer the less they pay, thats life ;D

That is of course assuming that you have stated the hours.

Stating the hours that will be worked should be avoided at all costs (just like costing in consumables). I agree that on the bigger sites where tender docs are filled in it can't be avoided but there's no reason to state it on a smaller contract.

shelton

  • Posts: 175
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2006, 12:59:30 pm »
 :D

This is another one of those "medals on the table" moments isn't it . ..  I can just see it coming like a horrible, horrible car crash . ..   ::)

All hail . ..

CMS

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2006, 01:13:53 pm »
?????????????????????/

lisa123

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2006, 01:16:06 pm »
oh dear what have i started?!  ???
I have put my quote in for this small job, its only worth around £65 per week, as it is so small. Thats what i quoted anyway. Not sure what they paid the old cleaners.
They haven't phoned me back yet, so will just have to wait and see.
It's only a tri-weekly clean, 2 cleaners 1 hour per night. I seem to be getting asked to quote for a quite a few of these small ones.
I think my price is quite reasonable considering wages, and supplies etc.
I have had 2 domestic customers say no this week as they hired a cleaner, who prob just wanted £5er an hour, instead of  a proper business. £9 per hour i quoted them aswell. I can't win sometimes.

garyj

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2006, 01:19:40 pm »
Don't think it was you (this time  :P ).

I'm still trying to work out the Shelton reply. Thats more cryptic than the Times crossword.

He'll have to do a 'Sun' version for us thickies.

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2006, 01:25:23 pm »
Translation - My shed is better than yours!

I think what Shelton is trying to say is that CMS is possibly saying the above to anyone who questions his experience / integrity.   ;D

Shelton - correct me if I am wrong.

Fox

CMS

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2006, 03:20:14 pm »
Shed? Medals?

It's getting harder to communicate on here  :-\

D woods

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2006, 04:39:28 pm »
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it more entertaining when everyone starts bickering?

shelton

  • Posts: 175
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2006, 05:58:49 pm »
 :P


garyj

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2006, 06:04:26 pm »
Is it just me, or does anyone else find it more entertaining when everyone starts bickering?

 ;D ;D :P  YES.

Lynn at Gower has even started bickering with herself on carpet cleaning.
Got her knickers in a right old twist she has.

I really do laugh out loud when I'm on here. Some people have no idea whatsoever.

CMS

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2006, 06:13:46 pm »

I really do laugh out loud when I'm on here. Some people have no idea whatsoever.

Too right!

BSF

  • Posts: 351
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2006, 09:38:50 pm »
Hi CMS,

Employers national insurance contributions, I avoid these where ever possible, don’t you? most of my staff only work 10hrs per week so I don’t pay it, I pay my staff the minimum 20days holiday pay per year including bank holidays, if you quoted a job for 38hrs per week at more than £18,000 pa you wouldn’t get it, I would pay £5.57 per hour and still make a good profit.

Why does your cost calculator add employer Nics? To be brutally honest with you, the cost calculator is a joke!!!   I know that on small contracts you can get away with charging per visit, but come on CMS any contract of a reasonable size,, yes £18,000 pa for 38hrs weekly, without consumables, of course the customer wants to know how many hours are being supplied.

Just because I choose not to advertise my company on this forum, doesn’t justify you making assumptions about me or my company, after all it is you that chooses to show all and sundry information about your limited company on this forum, and by this I can make my own mind up about you and your company from it, so can other members.

I still think £76,900 per week for cleaning at the site you mentioned is a bit of an exaggeration, but hey CMS  I’m not as experienced as you, so I could be wrong.

Regards

Paul 

 
Regards

BSF

CMS

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2006, 09:59:18 pm »
Why does your cost calculator add employer Nics?

...................because every contract should be able to 'stand alone' in its own right. Granted, if it was the only job someone did and they earned less than £82 a week NI wouldn't be paid.

What if for some reason that job had to be done (holiday cover maybe) by a 'full timer'? everything has to be costed in in my book.

but come on CMS any contract of a reasonable size,, yes £18,000 pa for 38hrs weekly, without consumables, of course the customer wants to know how many hours are being supplied.

............that's what I said - here...................

That is of course assuming that you have stated the hours.

Stating the hours that will be worked should be avoided at all costs (just like costing in consumables). I agree that on the bigger sites where tender docs are filled in it can't be avoided but there's no reason to state it on a smaller contract.

Just because I choose not to advertise my company on this forum, doesn’t justify you making assumptions about me or my company, after all it is you that chooses to show all and sundry information about your limited company on this forum, and by this I can make my own mind up about you and your company from it

No you can't..................

I still think £76,900 per week for cleaning at the site you mentioned is a bit of an exaggeration

I don't care what you think. It's not relevant.

I’m not as experienced as you, so I could be wrong.

You ARE wrong


BSF

  • Posts: 351
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2006, 10:11:31 pm »
No CMS I'm not wrong, I can also make very good assumptions from your details,  I wouldnt get a full timer to cover for holiday hours on a contract, so ENICS dont come into my cost, I man the jobs so the other staff can manage the work when a staff member is sick or on holiday, you see I dont take on contracts of less than 20hrs per wk. I manage the contracts so if someone is off, the work is still done.

As I said your cost calculator is a Joke! fact...

Regards

Paul

 
Regards

BSF

garyj

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2006, 10:40:22 pm »
Oh, I found the cost calculator very useful.
You can change it as well to suit your own needs.

It also brings into play a few things that a lot of newbies would leave out and make them think twice before they put in quotes at £7 per hour.

BSF

  • Posts: 351
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2006, 10:49:42 pm »
Yea go on Gary you use it, I'm a customer who wants 50hrs per wk from you please quote for me using the cost calculator,  I'm sure the price will be spot on. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Regards

BSF

BSF

  • Posts: 351
Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2006, 10:54:21 pm »
Beat you Gary its £27,852 pa, no thanks, I'll try someone else!

 :o :o :o :o
Regards

BSF

garyj

Re: office cleaning rates
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2006, 11:01:47 pm »
Don't know if you took the time to read my reply, but you can change it to suit your own needs.

It is a useful tool, if the prices are too high, adapt it.

Simple