[home6442]

Well John - you obviously aren't doing all your first cleans to a very high standard if they only take five minutes extra. And I hope this post helps the unbiased reader.

However let's assume that your generalisation is true and you are taking five minutes extra.

Let's also take just one of those "3 bed semi's" you mockingly use to illustrate your post at my expense.

A repeat clean 3 bed semi (with two 3 facet bay windows and a bedroom window and a door at the front, a side window and a door plus four windows at the back including a patio door set. Let's say that takes 15 minutes on 4 weekly and 18 minutes on 8 weekly. (typically extra spiders' nests or baked on bird muck and going above the vents from time to time raises the average time on the latter.)

If your extra 5 minutes to clean it is correct then you spend 33% extra time cleaning it. Therefore you can justify charging say £20 instead of £15.

Personally a first clean done thoroughly on my above example would probably take me 25 or 30 minutes because I would want all the spiders nests and filth above the vents got rid of and so I would scrub the whole property top to bottom quickly and thoroughly including the cills and then I would go back to the first top window I did and then go back over the glass.

I would then do the downstairs glass starting with any window not being dripped on from above and then the rest in reverse order.

I happily invest a bit extra in a first clean and charge accordingly. Because unlike you I'm not rushing it in "5 minutes extra" I have time to let it drip without driving back to finish off the glass.

I would charge £25 for a first clean (more or less depending on how filthy it was) and offer 8 weekly at £15/16 or 4 weekly at £13/14.

Then I know I have protected myself against one hit wonders masquerading as regulars.

You see thats where we differ I would take 30 mins on first and repeat cleans.
Im always amazed by guys who rattle round a house in 15 mins who believe that they are protecting
themselves against the competition.

[Ian101]

tbh a first clean will normally take me twice as long as will  thoroughly do all the frames / vents then go back to start and do just glass ... if its a big property will do the rears completely before moving onto side and front ... if its a small property will go around whole house doing just frames then again just glass.

The way I see it is you get 1 chance to make a good impression and impress the customer so maybe im ott on first clean however going foward I know the frames are mint so a quick skim every clean is all thats needed.

For about 30 first cleans I get caught by a one off'er so maybe twice a year ? however comes with job but hopefully i would have smelt em so charged extra for 1st clean.

I dont always charge extra for 1st clean unless really minging and suspect a possiblr 1 off'er

[home6442]

Well John - you obviously aren't doing all your first cleans to a very high standard if they only take five minutes extra. And I hope this post helps the unbiased reader.

However let's assume that your generalisation is true and you are taking five minutes extra.

Let's also take just one of those "3 bed semi's" you mockingly use to illustrate your post at my expense.

A repeat clean 3 bed semi (with two 3 facet bay windows and a bedroom window and a door at the front, a side window and a door plus four windows at the back including a patio door set. Let's say that takes 15 minutes on 4 weekly and 18 minutes on 8 weekly. (typically extra spiders' nests or baked on bird muck and going above the vents from time to time raises the average time on the latter.)

If your extra 5 minutes to clean it is correct then you spend 33% extra time cleaning it. Therefore you can justify charging say £20 instead of £15.

Personally a first clean done thoroughly on my above example would probably take me 25 or 30 minutes because I would want all the spiders nests and filth above the vents got rid of and so I would scrub the whole property top to bottom quickly and thoroughly including the cills and then I would go back to the first top window I did and then go back over the glass.

I would then do the downstairs glass starting with any window not being dripped on from above and then the rest in reverse order.

I happily invest a bit extra in a first clean and charge accordingly. Because unlike you I'm not rushing it in "5 minutes extra" I have time to let it drip without driving back to finish off the glass.

I would charge £25 for a first clean (more or less depending on how filthy it was) and offer 8 weekly at £15/16 or 4 weekly at £13/14.

Then I know I have protected myself against one hit wonders masquerading as regulars.

You see thats where we differ I would take 30 mins on first and repeat cleans.
Im always amazed by guys who rattle round a house in 15 mins who believe that they are protecting
themselves against the competition.

By the way I think if your going to accuse someone of lying then I don't think you can complain
when they retaliate a little by mocking the  length of time it takes you to clean a 3 bed semi.

[roundbuilder]

Who cares. Some people are naturally slow, some are rocket fast. Myself i like to be rocket fast.. Time is money, wfp there is no reason why a 3 bed house should take 30 mins. Even trad it would only be 15 mins. First cleans only take longer if they are realy dirty otherwise its only a few mins more. I have never had problems the way i do it so im guessing i have the right idea.
Id rather clean my 25/30 jobs in a day working fast than only do 15 of them taking my timeto achiev the exact same result.
As for the question charging extra, i tried it ages ago charging more but now the way i see it is that the first clean is the investment, do it good and your onto a winner with a good regular customer, do it bad and its game over.
Proof is in the pudding.

[richard jagger]

I think the price is not up for discussion here. I work in the same area as Andy and you can get high prices here. The way to get some commitment in this case is to charge all new first cleans at a higher price, then give a discounted price on the 3 /4 clean.E.G We would charge 30 quid for the first and 25 for every clean there after, on the 4th clean you will get a 5 quid discount as a bonus due to the higher first clean.

[MWC]

I used to charge a little extra for first cleans but now don't bother. If you charge extra for the first and they don't come up perfect due to the unkept state then you can leave yourself open to the customer saying "I paid the extra". Would rather just blast over them and say there could be the odd run afterwards but this will stop on regular cleans.

I have learnt a lot from other people on here and their experience in trying to see who the time wasters are.

One at the minute is "I need, really neeeeed them done done this week"
Oh is that because its sunny and you've not had them done in a year?

[PoleKing]

I charge extra and warn of runs.
Doesn't usually run-just protecting myself.

The thing of saying i'll be a week or two seems to work well to weed out the 1 offer's.

[AuRavelling79]

> John

Where have I accused you of lying?

Your posts contradict themselves; you may give one example and use that to highlight the correctness of your method; you might type in haste and get confused and have a different view to some. You might look at how long a 3 bed semi I described might take to clean and take longer than most experienced wfp users in this thread, you might have a little pithy comment to make at my expense but I would never call you a liar.

...

Edmund Blackadder:      Look there's no need to panic. Someone on the forum will know how to do a repeat clean on a semi in about 15 minutes ...

Captain Rum: The forum, milord?

Edmund:      Yes, the forum.

Captain Rum: What forum?

Edmund:      I understood it was normal window cleaning forum practice to have on board wfp'ers who know how to clean a semi?

Captain Rum: Opinion is divided on the subject.

Edmund:      Oh really? (Beginning to realise what he is dealing with...)

Captain Rum: Yaahs! All the other Captains say it is. I say it isn't.

Edmund:      Oh no! Mad as a Brush!

(Wibble)

[Susan Dean (1stclean)]

why not do it a diffent way like us , we charge double for first cleans , tell the customer about the extra time and water and how much hassle it is , keeping them up to date , then tell them after 6 months you will do one clean free giving them there first clean costs back ?

[Pro-Poler]

ALWAYS ALWAYS charge extra for the first clean, I've heard it all before "their not that dirty my husband only did them the other week" then you clean them and they cancel you've got to cover your backside, if they really want a regular cleaner they won't mind paying extra once after all look at the money they have not had to spend having them cleaned before, I price first timers the same as one offs you can't go wrong, a good benchmark of reading the situation is if they won't pay extra for the first time they will probably mess you about as a regular clean, just move on and do another job if that's the case.

[AuRavelling79]

ALWAYS ALWAYS charge extra for the first clean, I've heard it all before "their not that dirty my husband only did them the other week" then you clean them and they cancel you've got to cover your backside, if they really want a regular cleaner they won't mind paying extra once after all look at the money they have not had to spend having them cleaned before, I price first timers the same as one offs you can't go wrong, a good benchmark of reading the situation is if they won't pay extra for the first time they will probably mess you about as a regular clean, just move on and do another job if that's the case.

This post should be put as a sticky at the top of page one of the forum.

Pro-Poler, you have said in one well thought out post what I - with all my waffle - have been trying to say! 

[g.brookes]

i have also started to charge extra, normally double, for my new cleans.  otherswise i resent spending twice as long on the first clean

[Pro-Poler]

ALWAYS ALWAYS charge extra for the first clean, I've heard it all before "their not that dirty my husband only did them the other week" then you clean them and they cancel you've got to cover your backside, if they really want a regular cleaner they won't mind paying extra once after all look at the money they have not had to spend having them cleaned before, I price first timers the same as one offs you can't go wrong, a good benchmark of reading the situation is if they won't pay extra for the first time they will probably mess you about as a regular clean, just move on and do another job if that's the case.

This post should be put as a sticky at the top of page one of the forum.

Pro-Poler, you have said in one well thought out post what I - with all my waffle - have been trying to say! 

I didn't read most of the posts just posted how I deal with it

[home6442]

> John

Where have I accused you of lying?

Your posts contradict themselves; you may give one example and use that to highlight the correctness of your method; you might type in haste and get confused and have a different view to some. You might look at how long a 3 bed semi I described might take to clean and take longer than most experienced wfp users in this thread, you might have a little pithy comment to make at my expense but I would never call you a liar.

...

Edmund Blackadder:      Look there's no need to panic. Someone on the forum will know how to do a repeat clean on a semi in about 15 minutes ...

Captain Rum: The forum, milord?

Edmund:      Yes, the forum.

Captain Rum: What forum?

Edmund:      I understood it was normal window cleaning forum practice to have on board wfp'ers who know how to clean a semi?

Captain Rum: Opinion is divided on the subject.

Edmund:      Oh really? (Beginning to realise what he is dealing with...)

Captain Rum: Yaahs! All the other Captains say it is. I say it isn't.

Edmund:      Oh no! Mad as a Brush!

(Wibble)

To be honest I cant disagree with any of the above.
But talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[AuRavelling79]

You make me smile John!

[davids3511]

Well John - you obviously aren't doing all your first cleans to a very high standard if they only take five minutes extra. And I hope this post helps the unbiased reader.

However let's assume that your generalisation is true and you are taking five minutes extra.

Let's also take just one of those "3 bed semi's" you mockingly use to illustrate your post at my expense.

A repeat clean 3 bed semi (with two 3 facet bay windows and a bedroom window and a door at the front, a side window and a door plus four windows at the back including a patio door set. Let's say that takes 15 minutes on 4 weekly and 18 minutes on 8 weekly. (typically extra spiders' nests or baked on bird muck and going above the vents from time to time raises the average time on the latter.)

If your extra 5 minutes to clean it is correct then you spend 33% extra time cleaning it. Therefore you can justify charging say £20 instead of £15.

Personally a first clean done thoroughly on my above example would probably take me 25 or 30 minutes because I would want all the spiders nests and filth above the vents got rid of and so I would scrub the whole property top to bottom quickly and thoroughly including the cills and then I would go back to the first top window I did and then go back over the glass.

I would then do the downstairs glass starting with any window not being dripped on from above and then the rest in reverse order.

I happily invest a bit extra in a first clean and charge accordingly. Because unlike you I'm not rushing it in "5 minutes extra" I have time to let it drip without driving back to finish off the glass.

I would charge £25 for a first clean (more or less depending on how filthy it was) and offer 8 weekly at £15/16 or 4 weekly at £13/14.

Then I know I have protected myself against one hit wonders masquerading as regulars.

You see thats where we differ I would take 30 mins on first and repeat cleans.
Im always amazed by guys who rattle round a house in 15 mins who believe that they are protecting
themselves against the competition.

So every clean is approached as though it hasn't been cleaned in years, even if cleaned 4 weeks ago? I must have that wrong because it makes little or no sense.

[home6442]

Well John - you obviously aren't doing all your first cleans to a very high standard if they only take five minutes extra. And I hope this post helps the unbiased reader.

However let's assume that your generalisation is true and you are taking five minutes extra.

Let's also take just one of those "3 bed semi's" you mockingly use to illustrate your post at my expense.

A repeat clean 3 bed semi (with two 3 facet bay windows and a bedroom window and a door at the front, a side window and a door plus four windows at the back including a patio door set. Let's say that takes 15 minutes on 4 weekly and 18 minutes on 8 weekly. (typically extra spiders' nests or baked on bird muck and going above the vents from time to time raises the average time on the latter.)

If your extra 5 minutes to clean it is correct then you spend 33% extra time cleaning it. Therefore you can justify charging say £20 instead of £15.

Personally a first clean done thoroughly on my above example would probably take me 25 or 30 minutes because I would want all the spiders nests and filth above the vents got rid of and so I would scrub the whole property top to bottom quickly and thoroughly including the cills and then I would go back to the first top window I did and then go back over the glass.

I would then do the downstairs glass starting with any window not being dripped on from above and then the rest in reverse order.

I happily invest a bit extra in a first clean and charge accordingly. Because unlike you I'm not rushing it in "5 minutes extra" I have time to let it drip without driving back to finish off the glass.

I would charge £25 for a first clean (more or less depending on how filthy it was) and offer 8 weekly at £15/16 or 4 weekly at £13/14.

Then I know I have protected myself against one hit wonders masquerading as regulars.

You see thats where we differ I would take 30 mins on first and repeat cleans.
Im always amazed by guys who rattle round a house in 15 mins who believe that they are protecting
themselves against the competition.

So every clean is approached as though it hasn't been cleaned in years, even if cleaned 4 weeks ago? I must have that wrong because it makes little or no sense.

Its not what im saying.
I find that I can do first cleans every bit as quick as a repeat, maybe Im being too fussy with my
repeat cleans.
Another reason is that I only put water above vents when doing very dirty first cleans.
Which I then leave and come back later that day to finish the glass.
On repeat cleans I use a damp microfiber on a harris pole with a fixi clamp above the vents
this would be slower than using water.
At the end of the day I have priced to take 30 mins so I would rather over clean and work
at a calmer and less stressful pace.

[gary999]

learnt my lesson and have been charging either 25% or 50% extra
on first cleans over the last year

[G Griffin]

The best way is to do the second clean first. Charge for a second clean and do it as one. Then on the second clean, charge the same as the first. They will be cleaner, so the first- which is really the second-won't take as long.
You might think it's harder doing the second first but get someone to help you. Who's on first? Exactly. What's the name of the guy on second. Naturally.
Why? Left field  .

[MATT BATEMAN (OWC)]

Grifter, you're heading in the same direction as Mr Acorn.