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Subbing work and RAMS
« on: May 23, 2013, 08:52:04 am »
If work is subbed out to someone the regs say 3(1b) MHSWR 99, 2 (a,b) that you have a responsibility with regards RAMS to make sure that their RAMS is sufficient for the task.

How many sub work out without checking that the subbie is competent in doing a RAMS?

DG Cleaning

  • Posts: 1726
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2013, 08:57:33 am »
Your happy little ray of sunshine today ;D

PoleKing

  • Posts: 8974
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2013, 09:16:52 am »
I don't.

I'm pretty sure if you're a one man band you don't NEED a written RAMS anyway.
www.LanesWindowCleaning.com

It's just the internet. Try not to worry.

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2013, 10:37:57 am »
If you employ less than 5 you dont nerd written ones however if you sub out commercial work the property will no doubt need one.

The point was raised as it has been suggested to me to sub out difficult (unsafe) jobs. The advice I received back was that under the stated provisions the main contractor has a duty with regard RAMS and cant negate that duty by subbing out.

p1w1

  • Posts: 3873
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2013, 11:35:59 am »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2013, 01:07:48 pm »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

About 3 years ago I nearly did just that. Terrible nerve pain in my arms so I contacted a friend in the business for advice. I'm building up my experience and knowledge along with a working practice in the event I do go for it.

As for Andrew, I was on the same page as him before we met. He has galvanized my views since.

p1w1

  • Posts: 3873
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2013, 02:01:48 pm »
I'd love a window cleaning round in the peak district, lovely place to live I recko,  I go there every year

deeege

  • Posts: 5106
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2013, 07:14:09 pm »
I'd love a window cleaning round in the peak district, lovely place to live I recko,  I go there every year

Now is a good time to canvass the Peak District area, the word on the street is that the local WC has took his eye off the ball lately.........too busy worrying about 'elf and safety apparently!

:)
"....and it's lend me ten pounds, I'll buy you a drink, and mother wake me early in the morning."

p1w1

  • Posts: 3873
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2013, 07:47:46 pm »
I'd love a window cleaning round in the peak district, lovely place to live I recko,  I go there every year

Now is a good time to canvass the Peak District area, the word on the street is that the local WC has took his eye off the ball lately.........too busy worrying about 'elf and safety apparently!

:)
;D, if you ever decide to call it a day in the window cleaning game sunshine cleaning do give me a shout first

DG Cleaning

  • Posts: 1726
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 08:06:49 pm »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

About 3 years ago I nearly did just that. Terrible nerve pain in my arms so I contacted a friend in the business for advice. I'm building up my experience and knowledge along with a working practice in the event I do go for it.

As for Andrew, I was on the same page as him before we met. He has galvanized my views since.

If you do say become a Safety Officer I suggest you do a bit of work experience first.
Real life in industry is different to how you see health and safety  ;D

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 11:02:41 pm »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

About 3 years ago I nearly did just that. Terrible nerve pain in my arms so I contacted a friend in the business for advice. I'm building up my experience and knowledge along with a working practice in the event I do go for it.

As for Andrew, I was on the same page as him before we met. He has galvanized my views since.

If you do say become a Safety Officer I suggest you do a bit of work experience first.
Real life in industry is different to how you see health and safety  ;D

What makes you think I'm not getting real life experience?

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 11:05:59 pm »
I'd love a window cleaning round in the peak district, lovely place to live I recko,  I go there every year

Now is a good time to canvass the Peak District area, the word on the street is that the local WC has took his eye off the ball lately.........too busy worrying about 'elf and safety apparently!

:)

If anyone wants to set up here feel free. I'll help you get going. You can spend a day or week with me no problems.

8weekly

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 05:56:44 am »
I'd love a window cleaning round in the peak district, lovely place to live I recko,  I go there every year

Now is a good time to canvass the Peak District area, the word on the street is that the local WC has took his eye off the ball lately.........too busy worrying about 'elf and safety apparently!

:)

If anyone wants to set up here feel free. I'll help you get going. You can spend a day or week with me no problems.
You going into carpet fitting?  ;D

DG Cleaning

  • Posts: 1726
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 08:06:52 am »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

About 3 years ago I nearly did just that. Terrible nerve pain in my arms so I contacted a friend in the business for advice. I'm building up my experience and knowledge along with a working practice in the event I do go for it.

As for Andrew, I was on the same page as him before we met. He has galvanized my views since.

If you do say become a Safety Officer I suggest you do a bit of work experience first.
Real life in industry is different to how you see health and safety  ;D

What makes you think I'm not getting real life experience?

Depends what you went into.
Just saying if you went about safety in industry the way you do on here I don't think you'd last very long.
If you started teaching courses I think you'd be a success ;)

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2013, 08:30:55 am »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

About 3 years ago I nearly did just that. Terrible nerve pain in my arms so I contacted a friend in the business for advice. I'm building up my experience and knowledge along with a working practice in the event I do go for it.

As for Andrew, I was on the same page as him before we met. He has galvanized my views since.

If you do say become a Safety Officer I suggest you do a bit of work experience first.
Real life in industry is different to how you see health and safety  ;D

What makes you think I'm not getting real life experience?

Depends what you went into.
Just saying if you went about safety in industry the way you do on here I don't think you'd last very long.
If you started teaching courses I think you'd be a success ;)

I'll take the last line as a compliment, thank you.
As for not lasting long, I've seen how real H&S officers work on sites and in comparison I'm a big softy!

For the most part when they deal with the window cleaner (who are in and out quickly) they are generally happy with some improvement in safety that is documented, when it comes to their day to day dealings with regular staff or anyone they have a lot of contact with they are a bit tougher.

They are also generally unliked and have to take a lot of stick so maybe that is what I'm learning to deal with here!  ;)

The quarry we visited below is a case in point, the new H&S guy has proved very unpopular by insisting on certain standards.
We were told we would not be allowed on site without the orange trousers etc. and the 2nd induction that we need to complete on each visit.


DG Cleaning

  • Posts: 1726
Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2013, 10:12:29 am »
Has that Andrew Willis brainwashed you  ;D you'll be selling your round soon to become a health and safety officer lol

About 3 years ago I nearly did just that. Terrible nerve pain in my arms so I contacted a friend in the business for advice. I'm building up my experience and knowledge along with a working practice in the event I do go for it.

As for Andrew, I was on the same page as him before we met. He has galvanized my views since.

If you do say become a Safety Officer I suggest you do a bit of work experience first.
Real life in industry is different to how you see health and safety  ;D

What makes you think I'm not getting real life experience?

Depends what you went into.
Just saying if you went about safety in industry the way you do on here I don't think you'd last very long.
If you started teaching courses I think you'd be a success ;)

I'll take the last line as a compliment, thank you.
As for not lasting long, I've seen how real H&S officers work on sites and in comparison I'm a big softy!

For the most part when they deal with the window cleaner (who are in and out quickly) they are generally happy with some improvement in safety that is documented, when it comes to their day to day dealings with regular staff or anyone they have a lot of contact with they are a bit tougher.

They are also generally unliked and have to take a lot of stick so maybe that is what I'm learning to deal with here!  ;)

The quarry we visited below is a case in point, the new H&S guy has proved very unpopular by insisting on certain standards.
We were told we would not be allowed on site without the orange trousers etc. and the 2nd induction that we need to complete on each visit.




It is a compliment because you are very keen and that's good.
I've worked on sites similar to the one above most of my working life.
The safety guy's job is a strange one.
Yes he'll insist on ppe, issue you with a permit to work and in general if he's any good he'll try and make a difference to the safety on site.
But I can almost guarantee there are activities on that site where workers risk their lives on a weekly/daily basis.
He knows this (unofficially of course)
He may try and change it but the chances are its being done because the alternative is very costly to the company.
So if he pushes too hard he may have to work elsewhere.
Also many places don't regard safety as full time so you get lots of other little responsibilities that come your way but only after you've been employed, officially it is full time because safety is paramount.
Where I work every team brief has to start with safety issues its the general managers No 1 priority.
That is until certain pieces of kit break down then we are expected to do what's right for the company and the safety guy if he's any sense is off site or doing risk assessments elsewhere.
Where I work we've gone through 5 of them in 3 years.
Allegedly the last one left because he refused to change his statement regarding an accident to benefit the company.
A good safety guy has to cope with all this and still try and make a difference until such time where he can't compromise principles any more.
Like I said its a strange job.

Re: Subbing work and RAMS
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2013, 10:25:24 am »
Thanks for the comments. I've also had experience of conflict resolution and know how to deal with all sorts of issues.

I don't intend being a H+S guy at any one place like this quarry. I have other plans.