[john martin]

 Was there any theories given for your motors failing Dave .

[Russ Chadd]

Its funny isnt it.. someone makes a post about good service and it get ripped to pieces!  

lets face it... we have all been on the receiving end of good and bad service.
Chris likes his Jag and fair play...  there have been people with both machine (storm and jag) with motor failure problems so this could be down to the quality of the motors and not the design of the machines?

Many of you know that i have previously owned Airflex and Jag... both good machines to be  fair, what i will say is that once my jag had the larger internal vacuum hoses fitted and the silencer removed i DID notice a performance increase... but performance is not the be all and end all as we will all agree.
As for service, Nick has always served me well... same as John & Lynn Kelly, Derek Ashby and Chris Thomas.
The above mentioned people have always made me feel like my custom is welcome and that is why i continue to use their services...
Some other suppliers, one in particular i have previously had dealing with sadly lost my business and respect due to poor attitude and poor people skills.

[Dave_Watson]

John, was told there was a bad batch.

[john martin]

Its funny isnt it.. someone makes a post about good service and it get ripped to pieces!  

lets face it... we have all been on the receiving end of good and bad service.
Chris likes his Jag and fair play...  there have been people with both machine (storm and jag) with motor failure problems so this could be down to the quality of the motors and not the design of the machines?

Many of you know that i have previously owned Airflex and Jag... both good machines to be  fair, what i will say is that once my jag had the larger internal vacuum hoses fitted and the silencer removed i DID notice a performance increase... but performance is not the be all and end all as we will all agree.
As for service, Nick has always served me well... same as John & Lynn Kelly, Derek Ashby and Chris Thomas.
The above mentioned people have always made me feel like my custom is welcome and that is why i continue to use their services...
Some other suppliers, one in particular i have previously had dealing with sadly lost my business and respect due to poor attitude and poor people skills.

Russ , the point of your post was well made , can i take you up on the hose upgrade / performance upgrade thing for the sake of it .

If you imagine two 6.6 motors setup on a bench  ... connect the two vacs with a Y splitter into one hose and put a cfm gauge on it ...  each 6.6 has 140cfm , so the two combined in parallel have double that 280cfm .
That is the most power those two motors will make ... as there is nothing to restrict their airflow .
Now connect a one meter piece of vac hose to each motors exhaust ....  what do expect to happen ?  .... absolutely nothing , airflow is unimpeded so cfm remains at 280 .
( This is what the internal hose modification is ... one meter of vac hose connected to each motor )
There is no possible way to raise CFM beyond 280cfm ...

So when see people telling others they suddenly have 370cfm ... i have to call BS !


If you see the steembrite test , they get 280cfm with the silencer on ....  its a standard central vacuum muffler ... its a nonrestrictive hollow tube with foam around it , central vacuum manufactures are not to put something on to restrict the performance of they're machines .
And even if it did cause a slight loss of airflow ...it would just lower the 280 figure by a few cfm ...take it off ... up to 280 again

The muffler was removed as a precaution to see if it was a factor in motors failures .... by all accounts , motors were failing after it was removed as well so it is likely irrelevant ...and you can be sure alltec are using a muffler as they always do .

I can that  conclude that  the removal of the silencer add extra noise that is perceived as a performance increase ... a bit like youngster who fits a sports box to his car , hears a growl when he revs and thinks he has gained bhp  ...        

[Radek Jablonski]

Russ, once you do have good name, you are regular user of some forum like this one etc you will get best service even if that could make a lose of money to some supplier as you will/could post good or bad opinions. It could be stupid, realy stupid if Straker, you or someone like you guys will receive bad service, it could be slow process of killing your/supliers business.

The real opinions, the opinions you can trust are from not well known persons, persons that supplier do not expect them to be on the open forum like here.

[stuart_clark]

Russ

There isn't any supplier I know apart from Nick White who has blatently slagged off his customer over the Internett  and just because  he made a complaint about a problem he had with his machine
I have been in the business over ywenty years and in my eyes that isn't very proffesional

Stuart

[stuart_clark]

I Also think the fact that he was refused membership of the NCCA says it all

[Carpet Dawg]

I dont think anyone was getting ripped apart  Russ Just a few of us found it strange to thank a suppliar for next day service dispite it being the norm in our business.

[john martin]

John, was told there was a bad batch.

Hmm .. certainly the one u said that failed after a few hours could be a motor defect of some kind .

[Russ Chadd]

To answer John first...
I made the mods myself and here is what i did:

I removed ALL the internal vac pipes including the ones connecting each motor to the stacks and replaced all of the smaller bore hose with 2".
I didnt measure the original factory hose but i can tell you its smaller that 1.5", anyway the original exhausts would branch into a Y 2:1 then into the silencer.
So you can see that replacing all the hose with 2" and allowing each motor to have a separate 2" exhaust straight out the back of the machine, there is no longer the restriction of the smaller hoses, 2:1 join, and silencer which whatever way you look at it was bottlenecking airflow.

I no longer own the machine so im not here to blow smoke up anyone's backside, im just saying that my jag was more powerful at the wand end than before... CFM / lift figures dont interest me... if that was the case i wouldn't of purchased the enforcer, if it feels right then its right...

With all respect to Radek and Stu... both of you have fallen out with Nick over two separate issues and the guy has a right to defend himself when the issues were made public... for a more professional approach maybe these issues should of been dealt with in private and not on a public forum 

[Dennis]

The only decent Jag was series 1 3.8 roadster ops wrong forum

I hope you are watching Discovery Turbo today then. 

http://www.discoveryuk.com/tv-guide/?type=day&style=day&channel_code=TUUK-ENG&filter=1800

[Andrew@Approved Carpet Cleaning]

I love this trade, and I have found a number of very good, kind, knowledgeable people on this and other forums. I have dealt with only three companies, and i have recieved outstanding service from all three. Nothing has been a problem and if there was a problem then i would not for one minute air any dirty laundry on forums. What on earth have you got to gain from it? The only thing that will probably happen is you get a bad name for yourself and who will want to help you out then when you really need something urgently or advice on something?
Simon commented on what he believes was above and beyond HIS expectations and that's the crux of it.
just saying!

[stuart_clark]

Well you know what they say ? you live by the sword and so you Die by it !
Its alright for Nick if he wants to promote his machines and chemicals on Clean Talk but he must expect some critisism also and not just ban people for speaking out of turn ! its a joke realy
I have been in the carpet cleaning proffesion for some 23 years and have had quite a few hwe machines from about four different suppliers, but none of them has acted as unpofessional as Nick white when it comes to complaints ! Do you ever hear from Ashbys slagging off people on the forums ? Nio of course not yet they take a lot of stick from people on these forums about there so called bad customer service! I had three Ninjas from Ashbys over a period of eight years and if i ever had any issues withem, they would sort it , Simple

[john martin]

To answer John first...
I made the mods myself and here is what i did:

I removed ALL the internal vac pipes including the ones connecting each motor to the stacks and replaced all of the smaller bore hose with 2".
I didnt measure the original factory hose but i can tell you its smaller that 1.5", anyway the original exhausts would branch into a Y 2:1 then into the silencer.
So you can see that replacing all the hose with 2" and allowing each motor to have a separate 2" exhaust straight out the back of the machine, there is no longer the restriction of the smaller hoses, 2:1 join, and silencer which whatever way you look at it was bottlenecking airflow.

I no longer own the machine so im not here to blow smoke up anyone's backside, im just saying that my jag was more powerful at the wand end than before... CFM / lift figures dont interest me... if that was the case i wouldn't of purchased the enforcer, if it feels right then its right...

With all respect to Radek and Stu... both of you have fallen out with Nick over two separate issues and the guy has a right to defend himself when the issues were made public... for a more professional approach maybe these issues should of been dealt with in private and not on a public forum  

So you optimized the airflow in your machine ...  fine  ,    as long as you accept that you cannot increase performance beyond my example of the motors on the bench where there are no hoses connected .
If you have 280cfm on a bench ... then putting the vacs into a machine and connecting hoses can only do one thing ,put that figure downwards or maintain it as it is .
What is being claimed elsewhere is than by fitting bigger hoses increases performance beyond what the vacs can produce without any hoses at all .
It has been clearly stated by a respected member of another forum that when he brought his machine in to get the hose upgrades it was measured at 270cfm ... and after the mods it measured around 370cfm )

So it comes down to a question of creditably and trust  .....   do you believe what i'm saying or what they are claiming .... someone is wrong .

[Russ Chadd]

John

What i am saying is this... the performance was good before i made the improvements, then i made the improvements and performance was better at the wand, not because it was louder and me thinking it had to be better because it was louder.
To be honest i would never go by a CFR or lift meter... its how the wand feels at the end of 100' of hose which matters.
You could compare the modifications to a tuned engine... modified air filter, bigger bore straight through exhaust system... fewer restriction and increased flow...

Anyway my Enforcer has a totally different setup being two motors in series, the exhaust and stack are 2" bore and when i operate the machine using nothing but 2" hose straight to the wand, it makes all the difference!
There is a noticeable volume increase at the wand...   

[john martin]

John

What i am saying is this... the performance was good before i made the improvements, then i made the improvements and performance was better at the wand, not because it was louder and me thinking it had to be better because it was louder.
To be honest i would never go by a CFR or lift meter... its how the wand feels at the end of 100' of hose which matters.
You could compare the modifications to a tuned engine... modified air filter, bigger bore straight through exhaust system... fewer restriction and increased flow...

Anyway my Enforcer has a totally different setup being two motors in series, the exhaust and stack are 2" bore and when i operate the machine using nothing but 2" hose straight to the wand, it makes all the difference!
There is a noticeable volume increase at the wand...   

I disagree Russ  ,  an improvement in performance is measurable .
The common measurement is CFM and Lift .

There is no greater airflow than when the motors are on the bench with no restriction .  Your engine analogy is suggesting there is something in the airpath ... there is nothing to restrict airflow at this point  .
The two 140cfm motors combine to produce 280 or so CFM .

Again ... attach any machine hoses  1"  2 "  3 "  whatever you do .. and the 280 number will only either stay the same or go down ...

 
They have claimed a measured dramatic increase by just replacing some hoses with bigger hoses ...  from 270cfm to 370cfm ( which is 100cfm more than if there was no hoses )
There is no credible explanation for this   ....  because it is illogical .

 


I





 

[Russ Chadd]

John you keep quoting these figures... im not quoting any figures... im just stating that performance was increased at the wand... anyway i dont even own the machine anyome 

[john martin]

John you keep quoting these figures... im not quoting any figures... im just stating that performance was increased at the wand... anyway i dont even own the machine anyome 

So what you are saying is ....  you machine underperformed because it had inherent restrictions of airflow within its design ( perhaps 270cfm or so ) ... but when you upgraded  your hoses you increased your  machines performance to its full potential i.e 280cfm or so ...
This is not the same as the claims by other parties who state a measured increase to 370cfm and you are now distancing yourself from such claims and such parties ...

Thankyou 

[Russ Chadd]

What i am saying and please let me make myself clear on this matter... is this:
The machine due to its silencer and smaller internal hoses was not allowing it to perform at its optimal level, and if its optimal performance is measured at 370 CFM then well i guess that's that!
How can either of us argue that those claims are false if neither of us were there at the time?

If i told you that a Ford Sierra Cosworth was capable of speeds in excess of 206 mph would you disagree just because Fords data on the vehicle says it should only do 150 mph...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvkk7GENhHk
 

With respect, if other "parties" want to test the machine out and make claims... fine who am i to argue? like i said the proof is in the pudding and if the machine performs well when used in a real life situation (not in a lab) then thats all that matters.

[Craigp]

John why are you so obsessed with the minutiae of portable machines vacs? really its like a nats ass difference on drying times.

Or more importantly what you can earn, I mean really, who cares?

I personally think people on this forum are way to obsessed with chemicals and machines, It's discussed to death. Neither of these are what will make or brake you in this business.

If you put as much energy into earning money you would be very wealthy AND have a lot more important advice to give on this forum.

Just my thoughts.