[Paul Coleman]

I've posted this elsewhere too on the basis that the more feedback I get, the more chance there is of me working out what went wrong.

I got a cheque through the post today and a cancellation letter.  Basically, the cancellation is due to the windows being "covered in white spots" after the last two cleans.  The last two cleans have been with WFP.  The customer did write that there was no problem previously with my cleaning.  I was a bit surprised at this as there have been no issues with the quality of my work apart from very early on when I was probably using too little water.  The TDS varies between 000 and 001 so no problem there.  I have been using plenty of water so no problem there either. I keep the brush head clean too.  On the first clean I did the usual bit about doing above the frames first then starting again at the beginning and doing the glass.
The only thing that springs to mind is the frames.  The house in question has these double glazed metal frames that were around in the early days of double glazing.  In spite of their probable age, they do seem to be in OK condition and are not oxidizing.  I think I read on here a while back that this type of frame often doesn't mix too well with WFP but, if there's something I'm doing wrong, I want to correct it.  I have been getting positive or neutral feedback from other customers so I am wondering if it may be the type of frame.  The seals seem in OK condition.  Feedback appreciated please.
 
I'll probably return their cheque.

[macleod]

nossel jets or spray?
was it very hot/cold when you cleaned?
is there an air vent above the frame?

[Paul Coleman]

nossel jets or spray?
was it very hot/cold when you cleaned?
is there an air vent above the frame?

I used nozzle jets and a Vikan brush (the type that Omnipole supply).
It was fairly cold on the most recent clean (8/2/2006) but not sure of temperature on previous clean (when spotting also occurred).
There are no air vents above the frames.

It can be a bit frustrating when cancellation occurs at the same time I find out there's a problem.  It doesn't give a chance to resolve it.

[Morph]

Unreasonable people, Shiner.  They should have at least seen clearly that the overall appearance of the window was improving.
I find the Vikan brush does tend to spot more than Ionics brush.
The Vikan brushes are manufactured for washing cars (says so on the box, made in Finland, I think).  They hold the dirt, Ionics... seems to flow out of it easier, the brushes are monofilament, ie single strands, rather than the ends of vikan, like split ends.
Put it behind you mate.  Theres plenty more appreciative of what you are trying to do.  Gives you a chance to get a new client at a better price

[neil100]

Sorry to here that Shiner,

I know if it was me I would be wanting to find out if the frames had caused it, the seals etc.

I am a perfectionist, Any frames that I'm unsure  will contaminate the wfp finnish,I allways offer the customer the option  of Trad W/cleaning. But nearly all my customers will be introduced to Wfp.

I will sort the problem windows out as I go along, so its sad that the customer is not giving you the opportuinty ot solve the problem. Offer her a Free clean downstairs were you can try a diffrent brush or something. Go back and check the windows when dry, if they are still spotting, explain to the customers this is an exception to the rule and the only way you can garuntee they are clean is ti do it Trad, If you dont want to do it Trad pass it on to another W/c.

Nel.

[Paul Coleman]

Unreasonable people, Shiner.  They should have at least seen clearly that the overall appearance of the window was improving.
I find the Vikan brush does tend to spot more than Ionics brush.
The Vikan brushes are manufactured for washing cars (says so on the box, made in Finland, I think).  They hold the dirt, Ionics... seems to flow out of it easier, the brushes are monofilament, ie single strands, rather than the ends of vikan, like split ends.
Put it behind you mate.  Theres plenty more appreciative of what you are trying to do.  Gives you a chance to get a new client at a better price

Well I picked up two new jobs today at £19 and £13 so it's not so bad on that score.  The one I lost was undertpriced and needed a ladder off to access a flat roof so it's no loss.  It's just professional pride.  I will return (maybe tomorrow) and revert to ladder and squeegee for a last clean.  That way, I can bank the cheque as a guilt-free experience.

[Paul Coleman]

Sorry to here that Shiner,

I know if it was me I would be wanting to find out if the frames had caused it, the seals etc.

I am a perfectionist, Any frames that I'm unsure  will contaminate the wfp finnish,I allways offer the customer the option  of Trad W/cleaning. But nearly all my customers will be introduced to Wfp.

I will sort the problem windows out as I go along, so its sad that the customer is not giving you the opportuinty ot solve the problem. Offer her a Free clean downstairs were you can try a diffrent brush or something. Go back and check the windows when dry, if they are still spotting, explain to the customers this is an exception to the rule and the only way you can garuntee they are clean is ti do it Trad, If you dont want to do it Trad pass it on to another W/c.

Nel.

My posting crossed with yours.  I intend to return tomorrow and clean again all around with a squeegee as a one off.  The job has gone and it's no great loss really.

[neil100]

I lost a long standing customer yesterday.

It was only £6.00. The chap asked if we could clean his Facias and under the eves.Both sides of his bungalow. SO I charged him £20.00 incl windows. Thats £7.00 per side. He thought I was ripping him off So as asked me not to call again.

I dont know if he his losing his marbles but he gave me a tenner before I told him the price and he was expecting some change.

Charity.

[macc]

nell, £20 including windows, that is too cheep,

i find if i do something cheap 4 a customer they are always the ones that moan,

give him the boot.   

[AuRavelling79]

It was only £6.00. The chap asked if we could clean his Facias and under the eves.Both sides of his bungalow. SO I charged him £20.00 incl windows. Thats £7.00 per side. He thought I was ripping him off So as asked me not to call again.

I wouldn't need asking twice!

[preston powerblast]

I got a lot of complaints about spots while i was using the vikan brush, but now i have changed to those blue brushes I have nothing but praise.
Its a bit disheartening though, when you really try your best and the customer becomes unreasonable.

[Morph]

I got a lot of complaints about spots while i was using the vikan brush, but now i have changed to those blue brushes I have nothing but praise.
Its a bit disheartening though, when you really try your best and the customer becomes unreasonable.

Do you mean the Salmon? From Mr Hollins?

[preston powerblast]

Thats the one

[Paul Coleman]

Update.
Today I went back to the house to check the job over.  She wasn't kidding about the spotting.  It was awful.  I never doubted that she had a point as she;'s not normally a picky customer.  Anyway, she was in.  I started to go over the windows with the applicator and squeegee and the spots seemed to be really ingrained into the glass.  It was as if I had left spots on there first time and the second clean didn't touch them.  I got them off eventually with the help of a washing up pad.  She wants me to continue cleaning for her (I wasn't bothered one way or the other about this as I don't earn enough from it).
The way I left it was that I got all the spots off and finished off two of the ground floor windows with WFP as an experiment.  On one of the windows I scrubbed above the frame (again).  On the other, I just did the glass.  I want to see what happens to it.  She will phone me tomorrow to let me know how those two look.
I nearly got lumbered with doing the landing windows above the flat roof until I noticed the overflow pipes above them.  The spots on them are badly ingrained but they're not my spots    .
Anyway, the frames are the old metal double glazed type with wooden surrounds.  Also, above some of the frames, a concrete lintel shows on the outer skinn of brickwork and is painted.  I'm wondering if I've scrubbed this too and something has seeped out.  I intend to get to the bottom of this by the process of elimination.  If I'm not able to, then I guess that this will end up being a ladder job (no reasonable alternative if mystery spots keep showing up).
I even checked for hanging baskets nearby as I've known glass to get spotty when people water them - but no such luck.

[neil100]

Good Luck Sherlock.

Nel.

[GB Window Cleaning]

Update.
Today I went back to the house to check the job over.  She wasn't kidding about the spotting.  It was awful.  I never doubted that she had a point as she;'s not normally a picky customer.  Anyway, she was in.  I started to go over the windows with the applicator and squeegee and the spots seemed to be really ingrained into the glass.  It was as if I had left spots on there first time and the second clean didn't touch them.  I got them off eventually with the help of a washing up pad.

this happened to me exacly the way you described it except my spots didnt even come off with a washing up sponge!
i know im dragging another post out the past!

GB

[mac74]

Was it metal frames? as these came b a nightmare, if so just clean up 2 the glass, or if there is a window below a frame make sure its well drained off otherwise u will defo get spots everywhere - also is the brush your using flocked. as then hold the crap ?

[GB Window Cleaning]

Was it metal frames? as these came b a nightmare, if so just clean up 2 the glass, or if there is a window below a frame make sure its well drained off otherwise u will defo get spots everywhere - also is the brush your using flocked. as then hold the crap ?

plastic frames, no window below, my brush is an unger flocked though. whats the best brush out there?

thanks mate.

[mac74]

I have a unger sqaure flocked and only used it a couple of times, i org bought it 4 leaded, also use a dual trim super lite mono when im on an area with no sills (great brush) but the old work horse that sees most the jobs is my vikan mono sill brush, gets to all at the expense of weight!