[Spruce]

Could someone please put a link up to a good deal on a new van because I've never actually seen one!

Same with cars, there were better bargains & deals out there before this recession started!

All I see now are worse deals "dressed up" to "appear" better.

Take Vauxhall for example- 5 years 0% (but only offered @ FULL MRP) basic Astras used to be 10k, they're now closer to 15k! You can actually pay interest on a seperate loan & have a LOWER total amount payable if you go in with cash.

Spot on. It's all about the bottom line.

One must look past all the advertising and marketing hype - its designed in such a way that decisions are made on emotion rather than logic and common sense.

Most of those deals done on the scrappage scheme were a typical example. I was following the detail of this with regard to Citroen. At the tail end of the day, the public actually lost money when compared with deals before the scheme started. They got sucked in with high tradeins for scrap cars which had to have some MOT (gave it a bit more credability). When the scheme started to run out of steam, they hyped it up some more by advertising the Govt support funds were running out so hurry up before its too late.

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

sorry to highjack. Happy new year spruce. What a start tho. Are ya working in this??

[Spruce]

sorry to highjack. Happy new year spruce. What a start tho. Are ya working in this??

What a change. Dry first thing this morning and now this. Think I will go back to bed. Looks as though its set in for the day and totaly different from the forecast I looked at yesterday morning for the whole week. The papers described a month of drought after the floods - not a good start for that prediction.

Might dry up a little by lunch time I see now but not for long.

I've started a comparison spreadsheet for last years work for the 3 of us, and this year the same spreadsheet is to include a local weather report. I got 173 days work in last year, but looking back I have no idea which were bad weather days and which days I wasn't well enough to work but were good working days. Hopefully, by the end of this year we will have some statistics that are meaningful.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

www.vanman.co.uk           seems to do pretty good prices ,if you subscribe often has deals on cancelled orders and what nots

Where? what do you think are good prices? All they are doing is showing LOW monthly payments on lease contracts- look a little closer!

[David Kent @ KentKleen]

sorry to highjack. Happy new year spruce. What a start tho. Are ya working in this??

What a change. Dry first thing this morning and now this. Think I will go back to bed. Looks as though its set in for the day and totaly different from the forecast I looked at yesterday morning for the whole week. The papers described a month of drought after the floods - not a good start for that prediction.

Might dry up a little by lunch time I see now but not for long.

I've started a comparison spreadsheet for last years work for the 3 of us, and this year the same spreadsheet is to include a local weather report. I got 173 days work in last year, but looking back I have no idea which were bad weather days and which days I wasn't well enough to work but were good working days. Hopefully, by the end of this year we will have some statistics that are meaningful.

I know the feeling, I am going to start working in light to moderate rain this year. I have looked at my customer clean average and have only cleaned 99% of my work 10 times this year instead of 13. Thats alot of money not earned. Something has to change and I am not relying on the weather to do so.lol

[Spruce]

Hi,
 Im just starting out as a window cleaner at the beginning of the year using wfp. I have a deposit paid on a 2009 Citroen Dispatch with 46,000 miles costing £123 per month over 4 years.
 Then a friend says im mad. Buy a new one as it will be best in the long run. It works out at £232 a month over 5 years for the same sort of van. I can buy a vivaro for the same price as well. It might be too big though. Im just worried as obviously it takes time to get customers.
 What would be your advice,
   Cheers,
      Steve

Hi Steve

I have thought about your post and have come to the conclusion that only you will know whether this is the right thing you have done or not according to your circumstances.

Unfortunately we don't know the original price or the VAT situation or anything about the deal you have done. We also don't know which model Dispatch you have put a deposit down on. We know that you are paying £123 per month for 48 months, but don't know how much deposit you paid and we don't know the finance detail, ie is there a final payment at the end of the contract, etc? (I see a dealer in Driffield is looking for £7650 + VAT for a 2009 Dispatch 120 SWB with 40k on the clock.)

We also don't know how much work is available in Londonderry either.

So I would hope that you have done a "due diligence" study and have put together an action plan for the next few months on how you are going to build a successful business on the foundation you are laying now. I am a little concerned for your situation that a friend has made a comment that appears to have derailed your plan of action to get this business started. You need to be convinced that according to your vision, you are doing the right thing. (Nobody has a crystal ball that will tell them the future. This van maybe troublesome, it may be totally reliable. Just because you buy brand new doesn't guarantee peace of mind. A new van can also be a 'lemon'. If you are concerned, look at an extended warranty for your s/h van against major driveline failures - but tread carefully as these are written for max seller profitability.)

A good, reliable van is important and so is the WFP equipment you need to do your business. The extra money you would spend on a new van would be better spent of the right WFP equipment IMHO.

A lot of people started off using ladders as this is a way of getting a business going with very little expense. As with us, most of what we started with, ladders, squeege, applicator, bucket and cloths are still in use now we are WFP, although not to the same extent obviously.

Building a business takes time and so you need to be able to have some funds initially to 'tide you over'. The lower your startup and running costs initially, the quicker you business will become profitable.

In my personal observation, most non VAT registered businesses don't buy new vans. It's better for VAT registered companies to buy them though as they claim the VAT back. This means that when they sell them, VAT is still applicable on the sellers price as the vehicle is VAT qualifying. By far the majority of 3 year old vans are leasing returns and all qualify for VAT.

[Spruce]

sorry to highjack. Happy new year spruce. What a start tho. Are ya working in this??

What a change. Dry first thing this morning and now this. Think I will go back to bed. Looks as though its set in for the day and totaly different from the forecast I looked at yesterday morning for the whole week. The papers described a month of drought after the floods - not a good start for that prediction.

Might dry up a little by lunch time I see now but not for long.

I've started a comparison spreadsheet for last years work for the 3 of us, and this year the same spreadsheet is to include a local weather report. I got 173 days work in last year, but looking back I have no idea which were bad weather days and which days I wasn't well enough to work but were good working days. Hopefully, by the end of this year we will have some statistics that are meaningful.

I know the feeling, I am going to start working in light to moderate rain this year. I have looked at my customer clean average and have only cleaned 99% of my work 10 times this year instead of 13. Thats alot of money not earned. Something has to change and I am not relying on the weather to do so.lol

Same here. I hate working in this kind of weather. I am also tired of customer forgetting who I am. 

 I think I will have to get my Unger Teleplus poles out so we can run the dirty pole hose on the outside of the pole. The trouble with the Gardiner CF poles is that they clog up quickly with dirt from the hose, even after cleaning them regularily. I have also noticed that it does take longer to clean monthly cleans at 6 or 8 weeks, especially in the Saltburn streets.

Out you go then, after you. 

[Spruce]

www.vanman.co.uk           seems to do pretty good prices ,if you subscribe often has deals on cancelled orders and what nots

Where? what do you think are good prices? All they are doing is showing LOW monthly payments on lease contracts- look a little closer!

Those are the important flashing lights to attract your attention. Its cheap so it must be a good deal. £199 pm for a LWB Citroen Relay, WOW. I'll phone for a price. I bet the Dispatch will be cheaper as its a smaller van............ It works as some on here have already fallen for it in the advise they are giving to someone else. How can anyone advise someone else about this being a good deal when they don't know the details of the deal in the first instance?
 
I bet the deal they offer in the end is nothing like what you thought. £199 will be + VAT for starters, low deposit means nothing and neither does the final payment. Its also a finance lease so will have a large balloon payment at the end at that monthly payment, which you are responsible for. (If the vehicle isn't worth the balloon payment after 4 years, that's your risk - cough up the difference to finish the deal. Once you get hooked onto a deal like this its very difficult to get out of, even at the end of the first lease. Its designed that way and the finance houses have had years to fine tune it in their favour.)

The other trick is to offer a deal in advertising that no finance house will take on. Get the customer signed up and excited and then blame the finance house for wanting a bigger deposit to meet those low monthly payments, or alter the deal from 48 months to 60 months and forget to inform the customer. When customers are excited they don't look at the paperwork properly. The motor trade is full of wheeler dealers looking for the next sales gimmick.

You are 100% right Winpro.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

IMO Spruce, new cars & vans are way more expensive now than before the recession hit! The deals are worse too when you look under the surface.

I suppose it makes sense- the more you sell the more money you make-the less you can sell them for. When you are selling less, then you have to achieve more profit per unit.

The Vauxhall example I gave earlier is a real & blatant con- nothing else!

[Spruce]

IMO Spruce, new cars & vans are way more expensive now than before the recession hit! The deals are worse too when you look under the surface.

I suppose it makes sense- the more you sell the more money you make-the less you can sell them for. When you are selling less, then you have to achieve more profit per unit.

The Vauxhall example I gave earlier is a real & blatant con- nothing else!

When we went through the "Rip of Britain" phase about 14 years ago, the motor industry was forced to take action. Berlingo vans were being imported from Ireland by the hundreds and we were feeling it on the commercial side.
The Range Rover sales from UK dealers also nose dived as there was big savings to be had buying UK spec vehicles from Europe. What the media didn't mention was that used vehicles took a dive price wise as well as those dealers weren't trading in UK spec Rangerovers in partex. The UK motor industry just had to sit the storm out as best they could.

The Citroen reaction to this was to change the LX spec Xantia and Xsara to Forte models which weren't available in Europe. The stock in the dealers was rebadged to Forte and the price reduced. The retail prices for the cars were never altered, they just added sales incentives such as the famous cashback one that ran for years. These initially applied to Forte models and not LX models. Used car prices dropped inline with new car prices so the public lost out again - Glass' guide to the rescue for the motor trade.

The C5 arrived on the scene with a new higher price and the LX was again introduced and the Forte name disappeared, ready to be reintroduced if necessary.  Another facelift and then a new model has taken the C5 to well over double the price it was when the first C5 was introduced in 2000. The same with the C4. Are we earning twice as much? No. The current saviour for the motor industry has been lower interest rates. This has allowed price rises (more to where they ought to be according to the manufacturers) and still the monthly payment has been kept the same as when interest rates were higher.

The DS range has given them another pricing option through customisation. This means more profit. Ford have jumped on this bandwagon with KA customisation now.

The trouble is that free enterprise doesn't necessarily mean cheaper product - competition was good for pricing at one time but now competition doesn't mean anything. If one of them put their prices up the rest follow (gas, electricity, fuel etc.) Its shareholder driven for max profits.

The motor indrustry is now finding that bigger more important greedy players are taking their customers money, leaving nothing for new cars. Now France has refused to finance PSA anymore and they have closed a factory, putting thousands of French labourers into unemployment - unheard of before.

Who will be the first to blink and tell the EU that their new stupid emission standards were good for business to start off with but now are getting too expensive to continue.
Toyota have discontinued the Hiace diesel (petrols are worthless in the UK), whose next with Euro 6?