[GoodFella2006]

Do all the newish Dispatch,Scudo etc vans feature air suspension?

Is this something good for carrying 650 litres of water?

[Spruce]

Hi
www.airride.co.uk

They don't appear to do kits for these vans, probably because they use coil spring suspension rather than leaf springs.

Overseas you could buy coil spring boosters that were incorporated into the shock absorber, so looked a small version of the McPherson Strut used on most European and Japanese vehicle's front suspension.

In America the Cool Dudes had/have those hydraulic shockabsorbers that they use to 'bounce' their cars, so I can't see why a similar principle can't be used.

I would get in touch with them and ask the question.

The problems with these boosters is that it can become easy to overload a van without realising it.

The other issue is brake balance to the rear. There is a brake balance valve that reduces the brake fluid pressure to the rear bakes when the van is empty to prevent the rear wheels locking up under braking. As the van is loaded and the suspension 'drops' this valve automatically adjusts allowing a greater brake fluid pressure to the rear the heavier the load.

This automatic adjustment isn't too much of a problem on motor homes (Fiat Ducato chassis as the most popular conversion) as this valve can be adjusted to cover the higher rear ride height under load. (The difference between an empty homehome and a loaded one isn't that much.) But this may become more of an issue with our type of load where we start off fully laden in the morning with a full tank of water and as we use water through the day our load becomes lighter.

In the early Berlingo days, I know of a couple of guys that replaced their 600 LX rear suspension with units from an 800 LX. Depending on the model of Dispatch/Scudo you have, this might be another consideration. (It won't change your payload specs as that is fixed at manufacture. If you got a certified garage to certify a proper upgrade to a higher payload (Suspension, brakes, tyres etc) then they will re-register your van as a higher spec van and can carry a higher load.) With Berlingo's it wasn't cost effective to do that conversion. It was cheaper to buy a new van.

Edit;

Firestone make a unit for later Dispatches I have just found.

http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/firestone-assisted-suspension-citreon-dispatch-0709-p-2381.html

[concept]

Air ride is a horrible uncomfortable experience, even though its improved over rent years, it's still wallowy, combine that with water sloshing about...seasickness tablets at the ready.

OEM equipment such as the set ups the VAG group use are decent, aftermarket kits fail regularly, and are seemingly or kids with more money than sense.

[EandM]

Aside from my pick up I run an old Citroen XM estate with hydropneumatic suspension. If used it occasionally for WFP and it's abilities are very impressive. It'll take 500 kg of load and being hydropnuematic it drives, rides, handles and brakes exactly the same regardless of it being fully loaded or empty.

I've never understood why Citroen haven't developed a Commercial Vehicle based around the same old tech ?

[Spruce]

Aside from my pick up I run an old Citroen XM estate with hydropneumatic suspension. If used it occasionally for WFP and it's abilities are very impressive. It'll take 500 kg of load and being hydropnuematic it drives, rides, handles and brakes exactly the same regardless of it being fully loaded or empty.

I've never understood why Citroen haven't developed a Commercial Vehicle based around the same old tech ?

For some reason Citroen's hydro suspension has still got a stigma attached to it, even after all these years. This is the reason why C5's don't have a good resale value. People get scared of suspension repair costs. People also thought that the Xsara's also had the same suspension which may account for their poor resale value in their heyday. (You could pickup a Xsara Hdi for £2000.00 less than a Ford Focus diesel around 2005/2006.) It's successor the C4 doesn't loose its resale value as fast in comparison today.

Rangerovers air suspension doesn't have the same stigma although the early Mini's, 1100 & 1800's hydrolastic suspension was the 'pits'. Rover seemed to just introduce it as part of the package along with everything else; without fanfare, so I wonder how many buyers actually realised what they were getting.
I also think that the people who can afford top of the range Range Rovers aren't usually interested in the cost of maintenance.

[EandM]

The Citroen suspension has been around since the 1950's and the major issue was holes in the high pressure pipework leading to a loss of hydraulic fluid and the car being grounded, which was rather annoying. It's interesting that most garages are terrified of them but they're not usually difficult to repair just different and many mechanics refrain due to ignorance rather than complexity. Resale values have always been dreadful and this still seems to persist - a new C6 2.7 V6 hdi is around the £40k mark but at three years with minimal mileage nearer £8k. Again this seems to be more perception than anything else. We've had three CX estates and about a dozen XM saloon and estates over the last 20 years. All managed between 100 and 300,000 miles with no major issues. My current is a '96 Estate with 160,000 miles bought 2 years ago for £150 from a terrified dealer. I knock up about 1,000 miles a month visiting my kids and aside from a puncture it's been faultless. At this age you have to be able to do your own repair and maintenance as a single garage bill would probably be more than the car was worth !

They do still have the best ride in the World and the system is licensed to Rolls Royce.

However as already said only the C6 and some C5's have the hydro/oleopneumatic system at present.

[robertphil]

sometimes those citroens "would not get back up " after being given a pull n push suspension check during an M.o.t .   

u cant even drive them over the brake rollers to get em out the building if they wont back get up , cursed by many mechanics for good reason !

[Spruce]

sometimes those citroens "would not get back up " after being given a pull n push suspension check during an M.o.t .   

u cant even drive them over the brake rollers to get em out the building if they wont back get up , cursed by many mechanics for good reason !

I had a 1970 DS20 overseas and that was one of its issues. Come to start it in the morning sometimes the front suspension wouldn't lift, back up but the front wouldn't budge. Used to remove the front left fender/wing (one bolt) and move the lever manually - it would then be alright for the rest of the day.

I eventually had to sell it as my daughter got car sick every time she rode in it. She had exactly the same problem in a 1999/2000 Xantia hdi diesel but was a little better in the C5.

The best thing about the DS20 was the way it handled the dirt roads; never felt a thing whilst driving on roads that had deep corrugated ridges - other cars would just shake to bits ecept the old Peugeot 404's.

[Spruce]

The Citroen suspension has been around since the 1950's and the major issue was holes in the high pressure pipework leading to a loss of hydraulic fluid and the car being grounded, which was rather annoying. It's interesting that most garages are terrified of them but they're not usually difficult to repair just different and many mechanics refrain due to ignorance rather than complexity. Resale values have always been dreadful and this still seems to persist - a new C6 2.7 V6 hdi is around the £40k mark but at three years with minimal mileage nearer £8k. Again this seems to be more perception than anything else. We've had three CX estates and about a dozen XM saloon and estates over the last 20 years. All managed between 100 and 300,000 miles with no major issues. My current is a '96 Estate with 160,000 miles bought 2 years ago for £150 from a terrified dealer. I knock up about 1,000 miles a month visiting my kids and aside from a puncture it's been faultless. At this age you have to be able to do your own repair and maintenance as a single garage bill would probably be more than the car was worth !

They do still have the best ride in the World and the system is licensed to Rolls Royce.

However as already said only the C6 and some C5's have the hydro/oleopneumatic system at present.

The C6 was after my time at Citroen, but I don't like anything about it.

The XM had the best ride of any car I have ever been in.

I think it was the BX in this country that gave the suspension it's negative perspective in the UK. I understand that rusty pipes were the problem. I also hear that an experienced Citroen expert could have them replaced in minutes, where an inexperienced mechanic didn't know where to start.

My father in law had a Citroen Club overseas which also had hydropneumatic suspension and that was fine as well.

I'm still hankering after a VTR 2.0 Hdi C5.

[EandM]

The C6 was after my time at Citroen, but I don't like anything about it.

The XM had the best ride of any car I have ever been in.

I think it was the BX in this country that gave the suspension it's negative perspective in the UK. I understand that rusty pipes were the problem. I also hear that an experienced Citroen expert could have them replaced in minutes, where an inexperienced mechanic didn't know where to start.

My father in law had a Citroen Club overseas which also had hydropneumatic suspension and that was fine as well.

I'm still hankering after a VTR 2.0 Hdi C5.
[/quote]


My Dad has moved on to the C5 and he currently has two. A very nice 2.2 hdi Estate which rides extremely nicely and is very comfortable with excellent performance. He went a bit mad this time and splashed out £300 on a 52 plate. It's a cracking car but mpg is lousy, averaging around low 40's - worse than my IDI XM. His other C5 is a 2.0 and that averages low 50's but isn't is smooth, presumably because it lacks the counterbalancing setup of the 2.2. Does anybody have any ideas as to why the 2.2 Hdi PSA engines are so poor on fuel ?

[Spruce]

The C6 was after my time at Citroen, but I don't like anything about it.

The XM had the best ride of any car I have ever been in.

I think it was the BX in this country that gave the suspension it's negative perspective in the UK. I understand that rusty pipes were the problem. I also hear that an experienced Citroen expert could have them replaced in minutes, where an inexperienced mechanic didn't know where to start.

My father in law had a Citroen Club overseas which also had hydropneumatic suspension and that was fine as well.

I'm still hankering after a VTR 2.0 Hdi C5.

My Dad has moved on to the C5 and he currently has two. A very nice 2.2 hdi Estate which rides extremely nicely and is very comfortable with excellent performance. He went a bit mad this time and splashed out £300 on a 52 plate. It's a cracking car but mpg is lousy, averaging around low 40's - worse than my IDI XM. His other C5 is a 2.0 and that averages low 50's but isn't is smooth, presumably because it lacks the counterbalancing setup of the 2.2. Does anybody have any ideas as to why the 2.2 Hdi PSA engines are so poor on fuel ?
[/quote]

Parker's guide gives the fuel consumption of the 2.2 as 44MPG and the 2.0 as 49MPG. Why the difference I don't know, but 16 valve engines always seem to use more fuel.

This makes me think of my Suzuki Carry 1.3. It weighs very little, terrible to drive, uncomfortable and the best MPG I can get is 30.

[EandM]

Parker's guide gives the fuel consumption of the 2.2 as 44MPG and the 2.0 as 49MPG. Why the difference I don't know, but 16 valve engines always seem to use more fuel.

This makes me think of my Suzuki Carry 1.3. It weighs very little, terrible to drive, uncomfortable and the best MPG I can get is 30.



Yep, I read those too. The difference seems to be real world v test. I drove 114 miles to Cornwall a few weeks back in the 2.0, averaged 59 mph and 52.4 mpg, 70 mph on the A30 and legal limit everywhere else. My dad, who ambles along at 60 mph, drove to St Austell in the 2.2 and just about managed 44 mpg. In the 2.0, on the same trip he consistently averages around 60 mpg whilst ambling - to avoid anomalies we also have a Peugeot 406 hdi 2.0 which mirrors the mpg of the 2.0 C5 almost exactly. My IDI 2.1 XM averages 46 mpg on the same run.

The later 16v 2.0 C5 averages much the same as the 8v 2.0 - it does seem that the 2.2 is a bit odd and many owners report the same.

Your Suzuki Carry seems like my trucks - my old diesel P100 only used to do about 29 mpg as it was under geared and under powered - My Ranger has plenty of power but weight 1.8 Tons empty, is shaped like a brick and is low geared - 24-28 mpg - Gets the job done though !