[Graeme Smith]

What sort of local mags - covering what kind of population - I do PPC (obviously) but traditional ads is an area I've not used except for carpet/upholstery cleaning which is a different bag and keen to leave behind

[sherco]

A couple i do in my area are The Wealden Times and another called SO Magazine..my ads are not in these at the moment...but it will give you an idea of magazines to advertise.

[Rob Hall]

Most of my work comes from referrals these days, But tile retailers are a good place to leave cards also local magazines i get lots of work from. Dont go for the cheap mags try the glossy up market ones. I think my ad cost £150 per month and on average gets me £1500-2000 worth of work.

Glossy mags? As in the National Glossies? Such as 25 Beautiful Homes?

[Rob Hall]

Rob - what do you currently do to get tile/stone floor cleaning work??

Hi Graeme
We had a Tile Retail Business for the last 12 years, we sold it 4 months ago. I got regular work from there. Obviously, I have a large data base of customers who I can target, but I was interested in how others do it. Not everyone has a tile showroom!! I advertise in small local mags, but to be honest they are not really that good. My website goes live in a few days but I would like to see what others do that WORKS? It is easy to keep throwing money into the wrong places, they all tell you..it works, but you have to keep doing it regularly.

I don't know if something like this would work....if some of us signed up to a website, just for OUR type of work, lets assume 100 of us and we all pay into a fund for advertising on TV. I think it is important to only have 1 person for a certain area or town/city/county. Some of you will have heard of the Tile Doctor, I am the West Yorkshire Tile Doctor, Russ is a smashing lad with a great Idea, but I think the idea could be taken to another level. Russ sells his products to you or the customer through advertising, you get the lead and off you go to do the job, he makes his money from the sale of his products.

TV advertising does not have to be at half 7 between Coronation Street, Mrs Housewife is watching TV throughout the day, so rates come down a lot.

I think, by having a Website of Hard Floor/Tile & Stone Cleaners, who's websites are linked to the one which is advertised on TV, you each get the leads on your own area.

I look forward to any comments and potential interested parties.

The type of things we need to think about is;

1. Who runs it?
My answer is, ..anyone! There would have to be some reward for doing so.

2. What products do we promote/use?
My answer is, maybe we can re-brand some of the popular brands out there, obviously with permission. What do YOU use?

3. How much will it cost each individual?
My answer is, I really don't know. But I will find out. Obviously, the South East based people will get more leads than those in Scotland. Obviously, we will have to have more people receiving leads in the South East than in Aberdeen.

With the likes of our 'resident experts' such as Kevin Martin and CSUK, how can we go wrong? We have a huge amount of expertise on here and I personally think it can be expanded on and used to much better advantage.

I will start a data base of interested parties, so please, when replying, can you give me your contact details, including email address so that I can contact you.
My email address is rob.hall@btinternet.com

I look forward to ALL your comments, good or bad.

[sherco]

Most of my work comes from referrals these days, But tile retailers are a good place to leave cards also local magazines i get lots of work from. Dont go for the cheap mags try the glossy up market ones. I think my ad cost £150 per month and on average gets me £1500-2000 worth of work.

Glossy mags? As in the National Glossies? Such as 25 Beautiful Homes?
[/quote Only do local Glossies Check the ones out in you local area. The Wealden Times And So magazine are Free magazines.

[Rob Hall]

Well, that idea went down like a lead balloon didn't it?

[Rob Hall]

Well, that idea went down like a lead balloon didn't it?

OK, I've had another thought.
As I am typing, I notice that 181 people have taken an interest in the topic "The Best Place to Advertise"
I can only assume that, 181 people are interested in..... The Best Place To Advertise??
I think, if I can get 100 people interested in a National Advert in say The Daily Mail or The Times or similar national newspaper, it makes you & I look like a national company, doesn't it?
This is how the Tile Doctor works. They are a one man band, mostly, but are backed by a brand that throws itself around the UK in quality magazines.
Does anyone else know of anyone else who is doing it? I don't, so why don't we?
Lets face it, most of us have all done courses, wether it be Kevin Martins course, Tile Doctor, Crawshaws, Nulife, Twister...etc etc.
How many of you are registered with the Tile Doctor?
I am. It costs me £85+vat/month and I am getting 2 or 3 leads a month. This is not a "get at" Russ, far from it, I am just thinking of other ways that our advertising money can be used in a better way.
There are about 83 counties, not including Greater London, so I am looking for at least 83 people who want to cover THEIR OWN county. If I place an advert in a National Newspaper promoting Yours and My business as Hard Floor Cleaners, I need to be able to pass the work onto YOU in Northamptonshire...YOU in Cheshire...YOU in Surrey etc etc
Greater London will have to be run by 2 or 3 of you, but I am open to YOUR suggestions.
As I am based in Yorkshire, I would probably suggest to the other interested Yorkshire man that we split it either by postcodes or use the M62 as a break.
I am going to get some prices for a Quality National Newspaper and I will let you know the costs. I can then divide the costs by how many of you that are interested. I suppose, the less of you that are interested, the more of an area the rest of us have to work on.
Maybe it is better to simplify this even further.
Is any one interested in taking an area. Lets use Lancashire and Cumbria as a start?
Anyone want to register an interest in Cheshire?
Leicestershire & Nottinghamshire anyone?
Any other areas of interest to anyone?
We are ONLY registering an INTEREST....NOT signing up for anything yet! Obviously I need to see how many are INTERESTED to see how the cost of advertising will share out.

They say you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink! If I don't get any interest, I will stop bothering you all and choose a different method of approach, I just think that, as we are all together on this forum, it makes sense to keep it here. I will let you know what costs I get back from the Newspapers.
Again, my email address is rob.hall@btinternet.com

[Kev Martin]

Rob

Whilst I appreciate what you are doing or trying to do, I doubt if the idea would work in the way you are currently suggesting.  In order to get a group of like minded individuals they all need to be trained to virtually the same standard and have the same knowledge.  So for example if you were trying to do this with Plumbers who were all trained or Bricklayers it may work.  But what you seem to be proposing would indicate getting a group together with all different skill sets and furthermore different products.  You mention Russell at Tile Doctor who was up until a few years ago using Aqua Mix Products bottled under his own name.  He is now using LTP products bottled under his own name and AllforStone Grout Colorants.  I am not having a go at him or anyone else but in my mind whilst the idea is good in principal but, to maintain a consistent service and standard I am of the opinion that everyone in the group needs to have had the same training and use the same products!  That's my take on it anyway!

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
Marblelife Ltd

[Rob Hall]

Rob

Whilst I appreciate what you are doing or trying to do, I doubt if the idea would work in the way you are currently suggesting.  In order to get a group of like minded individuals they all need to be trained to virtually the same standard and have the same knowledge.  So for example if you were trying to do this with Plumbers who were all trained or Bricklayers it may work.  But what you seem to be proposing would indicate getting a group together with all different skill sets and furthermore different products.  You mention Russell at Tile Doctor who was up until a few years ago using Aqua Mix Products bottled under his own name.  He is now using LTP products bottled under his own name and AllforStone Grout Colorants.  I am not having a go at him or anyone else but in my mind whilst the idea is good in principal but, to maintain a consistent service and standard I am of the opinion that everyone in the group needs to have had the same training and use the same products!  That's my take on it anyway!

Kev Martin
Tiling Logistics
Marblelife Ltd

I think I disagree with you Kevin, why would we have to be all trained to the same standard?
We all clean and restore to OUR own standards now, we all make a living doing it, so why have a "standard" to work to? It seems to work for 43 Tile Doctors, all these people have been trained by Russ AND various others too. If you have been trained by Tile Doctor...you can clean a floor. If you have training by Marblelife...you can clean a floor. Same with HTC Twister...Nulife...etc
I agree that, the registered team will have to have had SOME training in all aspects of restoration or we cannot advertise a FULL package
Everyone on the Hard Floor Cleaning part of this forum cleans, or restores, hard floors...I assume?
Many of them have probably done your course or another which will show them how to clean and restore hard floors.
What I would like to try and set up, is a National "Team" of individuals who would be willing to take on the work that comes from a National Advertising campaign.
I don't want to force anyone to take the work and I don't expect everyone wants the work, in fact judging by the response and interest in the idea, we had better keep our industry very quiet as the rest of the world is in something called a recession!! It looks like everyone else, apart from me, is mowed out with work and cannot take any more on. No one is interested in getting anymore. I have had one interested person off this forum, local to me, who would probably take this further.
I am amazed that the Tile Doctor has 43 Tile Doctors around the UK who are willing, not only to pay for the training course, but, pay a monthly fee for website optimisation, a cost of £85+vat/month AND retail money for the cleaning products AND pay for the order forms. To be clear, I am not knocking Russ, he is a genuine nice guy with a good little business going on, however, I think there is more to do and there are 1000's of people looking for people like us to sort the floors. Believe me, I had a Retail Tile Showroom for 12 years, lots of folk were sick of their stone floor and were willing to rip it up and replace it with porcelain, ceramic, wood, carpet or yesterdays edition of The Daily Express as long as its not stone. We need to stop this trend of ripping up the stone or we have not got a future have we? Unless of course we ALL start doing wood, carpet and yesterdays newspaper cleaning!

I think your reference to Plumbers and Bricklayers is nothing like what we all do. For example, Plumbers are expected to fix a leaky tap, plumb in a washing machine, fit a bathroom suite and plumb a complete house. Likewise, a bricklayer is expected to build a garden wall, re-point a house, BUILD a house, whilst making sure all his joints are exactly 10mm wide on his blockwork, whilst using sand and cement, much like any other bricklayer. Predominantly, we clean floors.

The team I am wanting to put together are probably already cleaning Stone Floors, will have been shown how to use a polishing kit (if not, a days course can be arranged) and will probably be already using cleaning products and sealers. Some will use a buffing/scrubbing machine, some will use twister pads, some will use other systems, I don't think we all need to have exacting standards such as plumbers and/or bricklayers.

Don't get me wrong on this one Kevin, I am not arguing with you, in fact i appreciate your input, lets face it, there are not that many on here who appear to want any work, I have other interested parties away from this forum who ARE interested. I am trying to bring our industry a little more into the 21st century where we can all work together but within an area that suits us all. I know you travel the entire UK, so, I am guessing that this type of set up would not suit you and your team, but, for the one-man-band, like me, the power of having a national advert, backed by 40-50-60 others who are wanting to work, say, within a 50 mile radius of home and get the lions share of that radius certainly interests me.
In comparison to the Plumbers and Bricklayers, our industry is not quiet so .....urmmm...lets say..technical, is it?

I am sure that, if the 50 or so team that gets put together all bought your Aqua-Mix products, you would probably back the idea too?
With 50 or so regular buyers, we would have enough buying-power to negotiate some better discounts than just going it alone, especially if all the buying can be done centrally and sent out to each individual job.

If we assume that all 50 of the team do 3 jobs a week, thats 150 bottles of cleaner, 150 bottles of sealer and 150 bottles of a maintenance product, thats not a bad little order for a supplier, is it?

I am not prepared to keep p!ssing into the wind if no one is interested in getting more work with the benefit of looking like a National Company, I have other people ready to go, I thought it would be a good idea to have others on here who are also involved with Stone Cleaning/restoring.

I hope this does not sound like an attack on you personally Kevin, in fact, I hope to speak to you about supplying the team that is assembled, that is, if you are interested?

[Kev Martin]

Rob

I think you are misunderstanding me or I am not putting it across well.  Just because someone has done a course and by that I mean any course including my own does not mean they are ready to go out and start tackling any type of floor.  Solving hard floor problems is essentially a science that needs to be thought about and no single person can go on a two day course and learn it in one go.  It takes experience and practice.  So what I am trying to say is you need to be confident that all the people in the group have roughly the same skills and this is what I meant by being trained to a standard.  I have fought for years to get stone restoration and cleaning recognised as a qualification and all I get is "Would I be prepared to write a suitable syllabus".  This may come as a slight shock and I am probably going to get myself in trouble but the other day I attended the IICRC 2 Day Hard Floor Course in the NFS at Farnham.  Everyone including the instructor wanted to know why I was doing the course and to be honest I did have an ulterior motive (more about that later)  However, my point is,  I am on this course which has no practical element to it at all and hopefully in a few weeks I will receive my IICRC qualification which states I can clean & restore floors.  The upshot is the course completely baffled me and I knew exactly what they were talking about and what they were trying to get across.  So unless I completely missed the point I fail to see how the other 12 delegates who will all probably pass with a 75% pass mark or above understood the course either.  But in a few weeks time they will have a Certificate to say they are qualified.

Regarding products of course I would be delighted to sell more but please do not think that we only sell Aqua Mix because that is simply not true.  Furthermore, as people will tell you who have been on the course we push no particular products.  What we say is to do this job you need an Alkaline or Acid etc.  We then say what we use because we have found it the best because out of all the teaching establishments we do after all do repair and restoration for a living.  Finally we do pass a lot of work on already for a variety of reasons but invariably I want to be confident that the work we are passing on can be done by that person.

Recent examples include

Repairing a 10 Linear metre marble work top that had been sat on by some kids and split in the middle.
Deep cleaning and repair of 120M2 of honed filed travertine.
Grout Recolor of 4 bathrooms.
Repairing a single broken tile in a department store
Stripping 44M2 of slate flooring and resealing

All work we passed on.

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Rob Hall]

Rob

I think you are misunderstanding me or I am not putting it across well.  Just because someone has done a course and by that I mean any course including my own does not mean they are ready to go out and start tackling any type of floor.  Solving hard floor problems is essentially a science that needs to be thought about and no single person can go on a two day course and learn it in one go.  It takes experience and practice.  So what I am trying to say is you need to be confident that all the people in the group have roughly the same skills and this is what I meant by being trained to a standard.  I have fought for years to get stone restoration and cleaning recognised as a qualification and all I get is "Would I be prepared to write a suitable syllabus".  This may come as a slight shock and I am probably going to get myself in trouble but the other day I attended the IICRC 2 Day Hard Floor Course in the NFS at Farnham.  Everyone including the instructor wanted to know why I was doing the course and to be honest I did have an ulterior motive (more about that later)  However, my point is,  I am on this course which has no practical element to it at all and hopefully in a few weeks I will receive my IICRC qualification which states I can clean & restore floors.  The upshot is the course completely baffled me and I knew exactly what they were talking about and what they were trying to get across.  So unless I completely missed the point I fail to see how the other 12 delegates who will all probably pass with a 75% pass mark or above understood the course either.  But in a few weeks time they will have a Certificate to say they are qualified.

Regarding products of course I would be delighted to sell more but please do not think that we only sell Aqua Mix because that is simply not true.  Furthermore, as people will tell you who have been on the course we push no particular products.  What we say is to do this job you need an Alkaline or Acid etc.  We then say what we use because we have found it the best because out of all the teaching establishments we do after all do repair and restoration for a living.  Finally we do pass a lot of work on already for a variety of reasons but invariably I want to be confident that the work we are passing on can be done by that person.

Recent examples include

Repairing a 10 Linear metre marble work top that had been sat on by some kids and split in the middle.
Deep cleaning and repair of 120M2 of honed filed travertine.
Grout Recolor of 4 bathrooms.
Repairing a single broken tile in a department store
Stripping 44M2 of slate flooring and resealing

All work we passed on.

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

Thank you Kevin for such a positive response, at least you have responded and shown an interest in supplying.
I may have given you the wrong impression of what I am trying to achieve.
I don't think for one minute that, anyone can call themselves an expert in all things Stone after a two day course, wether it be yours, or anyone else's.

My idea is a lot less complicated.

I want a team of people, self employed, (I am not interested in employing anyone...been there...done that!) who are capable of;

1. Cleaning and sealing a Stone Floor.
2. Repair work to Travertine, for example. I choose Travertine as there is a squillion square metres of the stuff out there and as it is naturally full of holes, it inevitably requires repair work and cleaning & sealing.
3. Cleaning and sealing of Victorian Floors. Certainly in my area, these floors are very popular and people are realising there true value.
4. Re-polishing of a dull Marble floor. With the amount of Diamond pads available, bringing a pre-polished floor back to life is relatively easy. Personally, I want to take my business one step further. I am going to go for the Levigator from you and advertise lippage removal and repolishing. I have done some lippage and polishing work with my machine, but it is not heavy enough and I cannot rely on it as it is not the quality of a Klindex machine.

I do not want to put anyone in a position that they are uncomfortable with. Cleaning and sealing a floor is, I think you will agree, a job most of us are capable of without an IICRC qualification. I am not sure if the IICRC qualification would help any of us who, day to day clean stone floors.

I am struggling to understand your phrase fully...
"Solving hard floor problems is essentially a science"

I agree that we need to know what TYPE of Stone we are dealing with and to a degree, if we are talking about Tilers who have found their way into the restoration business, they SHOULD know what the stone is. You, quiet rightly, hammer home to everyone to do a test area before hitting the job with a cleaning product. Carpet Cleaners and Wood floor people maybe the wrong people to be part of the National Team, they may wish to take it on themselves to learn the different types of stones and join the team later.

To sum up and try to simplify for any one who does not understand what I am trying to achieve;

The advert would read something like this;

(Possibly a Photo of a Before & After floor)
Stone Floors Cleaned & Sealed
Repairs to Travertine Floors
Re-Polishing of Marble Floors
Grout Re-colouring
Tile Repairs and Replacing
Our Experienced Team are Based all over the UK.
Please visit www.xyz.com for further information.

Obviously, the advert needs to be a little bit snappier, I am sure that, between us all, we can come up with a decent advert that works and gets the housewife with the "Impossible to Clean Floor" contacts us.

I think I have made the mistake of assuming a high number of tilers on this forum.

I look forward to your thoughts Kevin and anyone else who has any further ideas.

[Kev Martin]

Rob

I can see what you are trying to do but try and accept that everyone is different and consequently everyone who does a course leaves the course with different ideas and take away their own ideas on how they will use the knowledge.

I have trained 100's of people.  Some have never done anything with the course.  Lot's have gone away and do basic cleaning as an add on to their carpet business. Some specialise just in grout Recoloring, some do a mixture and 3, only 3 have gone into full blown stone restoration and out of those 3 one has now left the business.

My point about the IICRC course to was to demonstrate to you and the readers that just because you pass a course and get a certificate does not mean you can or want do it all!

Regarding your quote below where you state:

"My idea is a lot less complicated.

I want a team of people, self employed, (I am not interested in employing anyone...been there...done that!) who are capable of;

1. Cleaning and sealing a Stone Floor.
2. Repair work to Travertine, for example. I choose Travertine as there is a squillion square metres of the stuff out there and as it is naturally full of holes, it inevitably requires repair work and cleaning & sealing.
3. Cleaning and sealing of Victorian Floors. Certainly in my area, these floors are very popular and people are realising there true value.
4. Re-polishing of a dull Marble floor. With the amount of Diamond pads available, bringing a pre-polished floor back to life is relatively easy. Personally, I want to take my business one step further. I am going to go for the Levigator from you and advertise lippage removal and repolishing. I have done some lippage and polishing work with my machine, but it is not heavy enough and I cannot rely on it as it is not the quality of a Klindex machine."

I think you are asking a lot!  Why not start a separate thread and ask:

"How many on here feel confident about being able to say that they can tackle all the above" Especially the statement in 4.  above which says "Bringing a pre-polished floor back to life is relatively easy"

Rob, I am not trying to pour water on your idea and I admire your enthusiasm but if you think re polishing any stone floor is relatively easy then you have been very lucky!  By this I mean Marbles with such things as high iron content, conglomerates, agglomerates, quartzite type marbles, dark marbles especially some of the nero's, Serpentine etc etc.

I have people who have been doing this for 5 years + and they still ring on a regular basis and ask for advice on how to do a particular type of floor!  Hopefully some of them will not be too proud to add to this thread and confirm what I am saying.

The cleaning and restoration of stone is a science albeit not an exact science.  Often you can have the right chemicals and the right idea on how to do it but even then things still have to be used in the right order.

e.g.

Problem 1.  You have a porcelain floor with grout haze on it. 

The grout was a flexible grout that has been over washed.  Ordinarily a solution of diluted Phosphoric Acid will get rid of a grout haze relatively easily.  However, in this case because it was a flexible grout that has been over washed it means that the polymers in the grout will have all risen to the surface and formed a protective skin.  So in this case you would need to use a sealing & coating remover to break down the polymers prior to using the diluted phosphoric acid.

Problem 2.  You have oil on your hands and wash them under cold water, some of the oil comes off.  Now change the water to warm even more oil comes off.  Now add washing up liquid and it all comes off.

I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs and you probably know all this but what I am trying to say is, sometimes it is necessary to use a combination of products to get a 100% result!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

[Rob Hall]

Rob

I can see what you are trying to do but try and accept that everyone is different and consequently everyone who does a course leaves the course with different ideas and take away their own ideas on how they will use the knowledge.

I have trained 100's of people.  Some have never done anything with the course.  Lot's have gone away and do basic cleaning as an add on to their carpet business. Some specialise just in grout Recoloring, some do a mixture and 3, only 3 have gone into full blown stone restoration and out of those 3 one has now left the business.

My point about the IICRC course to was to demonstrate to you and the readers that just because you pass a course and get a certificate does not mean you can or want do it all!

Regarding your quote below where you state:

"My idea is a lot less complicated.

I want a team of people, self employed, (I am not interested in employing anyone...been there...done that!) who are capable of;

1. Cleaning and sealing a Stone Floor.
2. Repair work to Travertine, for example. I choose Travertine as there is a squillion square metres of the stuff out there and as it is naturally full of holes, it inevitably requires repair work and cleaning & sealing.
3. Cleaning and sealing of Victorian Floors. Certainly in my area, these floors are very popular and people are realising there true value.
4. Re-polishing of a dull Marble floor. With the amount of Diamond pads available, bringing a pre-polished floor back to life is relatively easy. Personally, I want to take my business one step further. I am going to go for the Levigator from you and advertise lippage removal and repolishing. I have done some lippage and polishing work with my machine, but it is not heavy enough and I cannot rely on it as it is not the quality of a Klindex machine."

I think you are asking a lot!  Why not start a separate thread and ask:

"How many on here feel confident about being able to say that they can tackle all the above" Especially the statement in 4.  above which says "Bringing a pre-polished floor back to life is relatively easy"

Rob, I am not trying to pour water on your idea and I admire your enthusiasm but if you think re polishing any stone floor is relatively easy then you have been very lucky!  By this I mean Marbles with such things as high iron content, conglomerates, agglomerates, quartzite type marbles, dark marbles especially some of the nero's, Serpentine etc etc.

I have people who have been doing this for 5 years + and they still ring on a regular basis and ask for advice on how to do a particular type of floor!  Hopefully some of them will not be too proud to add to this thread and confirm what I am saying.

The cleaning and restoration of stone is a science albeit not an exact science.  Often you can have the right chemicals and the right idea on how to do it but even then things still have to be used in the right order.

e.g.

Problem 1.  You have a porcelain floor with grout haze on it. 

The grout was a flexible grout that has been over washed.  Ordinarily a solution of diluted Phosphoric Acid will get rid of a grout haze relatively easily.  However, in this case because it was a flexible grout that has been over washed it means that the polymers in the grout will have all risen to the surface and formed a protective skin.  So in this case you would need to use a sealing & coating remover to break down the polymers prior to using the diluted phosphoric acid.

Problem 2.  You have oil on your hands and wash them under cold water, some of the oil comes off.  Now change the water to warm even more oil comes off.  Now add washing up liquid and it all comes off.

I am not trying to teach you to suck eggs and you probably know all this but what I am trying to say is, sometimes it is necessary to use a combination of products to get a 100% result!

Kev Martin
Marblelife Ltd
Tiling Logistics

Hi Kevin
As I was getting very little interest on here, I tried tilersforums.co.uk.
What a waste of time. I posted on there at 2:15 this morning after a lot of thought about what I was trying to say, to avoid the same reaction that appears to have happened on here.
I checked this morning for any replies, only to find my 'gazillion word presentation' had been removed by The Communist Forum Admin called Sir Ramic!! (or Adolf as he was refered to by another member on the phone today)
Apparently, he is not well liked on there and likes the power of 'pressing buttons' and removing threads. His excuse for removing my thread was for "advertising"!!
Yeah...Advertising!!
Advertising what exactly?? No Brands mentioned...no company names...NOTHING! What a T@sser.

Anyway...rant over...
Thanks again for your reply.
What I would say is this, on your course, and others I have been on, I remember talking about "Problem Stones", such as Bassalt and serpentine.
I for one would not touch either of them. I am not even that confident about Granite.
Heres a quick one for you. In 12 years of owning and running a Retail Stone Tile Showroom, can you guess how much Bassalt and Serpentine we actually sold?

Time Up!

None!!

Question 2.
How much conglomerate Marble do you think we sold?

Time Up!

None!

Agglomerates!!!

Yep, you guessed it...NONE!

I am going to admit defeat on QUARTZITE TYPE MARBLE, what is that? We sold containers of Quartz and containers of Marble, but never any
Quartz-marble. To me Quartz is Quartz and Marble is Marble. Please will you educate me?

However, you will have no doubt have heard of Crema Marfil, we bought acres of the stuff.
Bottocino, again acres of the stuff.
We bought countless number of containers of Travertine, including polished.

So, judging by my little survey, I can safely say that, there are more Domestic floors around the UK with Travertine and Crema Marfil on than Serpentine and Agglomerates/Conglomerates, I will stand corrected if the reverse is true in Birmingham.

High Iron content Marble such as Carrera can 'Yellow' as you know and obviously care should be taken as the Carerra type Marble contains Iron and will 'brown' when water comes into contact.

My views on any Tom, Dick or Harry signing up to something that is beyond his capabilities is his own worst enemy. If I saw a similar ad on, say, carpet cleaning, I would not be interested as I know nothing about it.

I admit to making polishing "A Marble Floor Being Easy" was a mistake. It's not 'easy' but it is NOT difficult either. Again, I am referring to Crema Marfil of course.
Marble Polishing is Mind Numbingly boring but I stand by what I say in the case of POPULAR marble, such as Crema Marfil. I polished +/-150sqm using Crawshaws Revolution Kit with excellent results...boring...but looked like new and yes, everything had to be used in the correct order.
Make no mistake, I am NOT saying that polishing other types of Marble is as "easy" as Crema Marfil, I am pointing out that, out of 100 enquiries for polishing a Marble floor, they could be SOME other types, but judging by my last 12 years of invoices...not that many.

I too would also like to hear from others who also refurbish floors,  I am sure, like me, they don't know everything, nobody does, we are all learning all the time.

You opened up your last email with;

I can see what you are trying to do but try and accept that everyone is different and consequently everyone who does a course leaves the course with different ideas and take away their own ideas on how they will use the knowledge.

My answer to that is, if that statement is true, then Tile Doctor should not exist.

I did the Tile Doctor course, so did many others. Around 40 odd others have signed up with Russ so far. Russ gives all 40 odd T/D's leads that are generated from his web site, he sells his products and we all get the work.
I suppose it would be just easier to email all the Tile Doctors and ask them to join in the campaign. I just don't want to upset Russ. So I thought I would cast out my net and see how many would be interested in growing there business with very little outlay...not many is the answer!

So, with your advice in mind... I ask your question to all the members on here....

How many on here feel confident about being able to say that they can tackle all the above

To reiterate;

I am NOT wanting to employ anyone.
Everyone does what they are doing now.
We simply ALL chip in for a National advert and hopefully reap the rewards.
Thats it.
Nothing else.
Wheres the catch...I hear you say!!
There isn't one.

I think I will try something else as trying to lead the proverbial horse to water is much more difficult than I first thought.



I am losing the will to live....

[SteveAllan]

What's the reason for this quest Rob if the Tile Doctor is giving you optimised presence on the web and regular work?

[Jamie Pearson]

Rob.

The TV advertising you suggest is the same idea Derek West ultimately has for The Approved Carpet Cleaners Association www.tacca.co.uk

I have seen the rates and viewer numbers for the campaign and its impressive reading.

My thoughts are that for the money involved a directory using a well targeted and managed Adwords campaign to catch those actually shopping for stone cleaning/restoration may get a better return especially with the same budget.

I too have used the Crawshaws Revolution System and agree its a good system in the right situation and we have it as part of the line up of many systems at our disposal.

Next to trial is some Supershine Hards then I have used them all except cheetahs (currently unavailable) some last amazingly well and others are poor for the price but have strong marketing behind them so won't dissapear anytime soon.

[Rob Hall]

What's the reason for this quest Rob if the Tile Doctor is giving you optimised presence on the web and regular work?

Hi Steve.
I may have mentioned earlier in this thread that, the Tile Doctor charge £85+vat for website optimisation each month. I personally think, that, if all the Tile Doctors put £85+vat into a National Newspaper Advert, lets say the Interiors section of The Mail On Sunday, I think the response would be good and the money is better spent on a the ad, rather than promoting the Tile Doctor website. I for one, do not get value for money from it and I am not too sure if I will be continuing with it.
My website, which is due to go live in the New Year, will be optimised at a much lower cost.

Hope this answers your question.

[Rob Hall]

Rob.

The TV advertising you suggest is the same idea Derek West ultimately has for The Approved Carpet Cleaners Association www.tacca.co.uk

I have seen the rates and viewer numbers for the campaign and its impressive reading.

My thoughts are that for the money involved a directory using a well targeted and managed Adwords campaign to catch those actually shopping for stone cleaning/restoration may get a better return especially with the same budget.

I too have used the Crawshaws Revolution System and agree its a good system in the right situation and we have it as part of the line up of many systems at our disposal.

Next to trial is some Supershine Hards then I have used them all except cheetahs (currently unavailable) some last amazingly well and others are poor for the price but have strong marketing behind them so won't dissapear anytime soon.

I think you are right.
My problem is that, I am paying £85+vat to optimise My website on the Tile Doctors site...if that makes sense, not my business's site.

ok, this is how it works.

As a Tile Doctor, you get your "own" site on the Tile Doctors MAIN site. If I was paying the money for MY site, that would be a different matter.
I am not inundated with work from that, so the idea of a National Advertising Campaign for me and 40 odd others seems like a good idea.
Or not, as the case may be.

[SteveAllan]

Ah right fair enough i see your point.
I have been looking at my own marketing and all i seem to hear from people that the internet, social media etc is the way forward and anyone not on board wont have a business in 5 years as they will be left behind (not my words but a markerting expert) and printed advertising is dying on its arse.
All i know for sure is if i want anything the first thing i do is look on google.
Its interesting what you say about the Tile Doctor as i spoke to Russell a while back and he sells it well as i was left with the impression that as part of the network there was plenty of work passed to the members, i like you would also be hacked off if i was not getting a return on investment.
Maybe im talking BS, not sure, but is printed advertising the way to go.
Cheers
Steve

[Rob Hall]

Ah right fair enough i see your point.
I have been looking at my own marketing and all i seem to hear from people that the internet, social media etc is the way forward and anyone not on board wont have a business in 5 years as they will be left behind (not my words but a markerting expert) and printed advertising is dying on its arse.
All i know for sure is if i want anything the first thing i do is look on google.
Its interesting what you say about the Tile Doctor as i spoke to Russell a while back and he sells it well as i was left with the impression that as part of the network there was plenty of work passed to the members, i like you would also be hacked off if i was not getting a return on investment.
Maybe im talking BS, not sure, but is printed advertising the way to go.
Cheers
Steve

I find it difficult to disagree with you.
I too, like you, google everything.
The Newspapers are also available online and I think the printed newspaper is on borrowed time.
However, the Television is going to be around for a little while yet. I have got no idea of the costs of TV advertising, but, if we all chipped in to promote a National Website, where all our sites are on and the potential customer is lead by area to yours or my site.

What do you think?
The more interested parties the cheaper it will be for us all.

[SteveAllan]

It would be interesting to see the numbers, certainly.