[Spruce]

I know this issue raises its head on here from time to time as we all have this problem.

Most of these debts are small amounts and hardly worth chasing legally. I once heard of a windie who has a professional letter head that he used to write to these non payers giving them notice to pay within ex number of days or expect further action. The final letter would be that as they have failed to acknowledge or act on previous letters, the window cleaner would have no other option but to take matters further, presenting them with a bill including added collection costs and interest on the outstanding debt.

He then sends a copy of all correspondence and proof of postage to Experian with a covering letter mentioning that as its hardly worth the expense of persuing this debt, it has been sent to them to warn others of this persons poor/non payment record. Apparantly Experian do react to this sort of feedback.

Anyone heard of this?

[bobplum]

no

[Carl2009]

I haven't either.

I'm currently chasing a £70 debt.

So far i've paid out £208.90 in legal fees and court costs. She will be forced to reimburse me all but around £20 or £30 of this,s o it's really going to cost her.

It's a long story but to cut it short she ignored my fone calls, home visits, a red letter, a letter before action from my solicitors (Thos Higgins - excellent), a summons and the court appearance. She got issued a CCJ, but then, after the deadline wrote to the court asking if i'd accept £20/month - I said I would. Then, before making a payment, she asked to increase to £30/month. Again I accepted.

The first payment was supposed to be made on 31st Oct, with a second on 16th Nov, then monthly thereafter. Guess what... Nothing, nada.

So, back to the solicitors and now the bailiffs will be calling. It's pity because she lost her father the month before I did the job (July) and I know she's bringing up her son (she's a single parent) and helping fund her two sisters. If she'd have come to me and said, "Look, i'm having problems and can you bear with me?" i'd have said yes and sorted something out on a monthly basis. But what p'd me off was that she sent me one message after my first visit to collect the late bill saying she'd been on holiday in Lazarote and that she'd posted the cheque "the day before" (later on the court form she stated she didn't have a cheque book...) and then another a bit later saying she'd pay "at the end of the month" (this was back in September).

I might never get the money, but for me it's the principle. People can't - generally - be allowed to get away with it.

[ben M]

I haven't either.

I'm currently chasing a £70 debt.

So far i've paid out £208.90 in legal fees and court costs. She will be forced to reimburse me all but around £20 or £30 of this,s o it's really going to cost her.

It's a long story but to cut it short she ignored my fone calls, home visits, a red letter, a letter before action from my solicitors (Thos Higgins - excellent), a summons and the court appearance. She got issued a CCJ, but then, after the deadline wrote to the court asking if i'd accept £20/month - I said I would. Then, before making a payment, she asked to increase to £30/month. Again I accepted.

The first payment was supposed to be made on 31st Oct, with a second on 16th Nov, then monthly thereafter. Guess what... Nothing, nada.

So, back to the solicitors and now the bailiffs will be calling. It's pity because she lost her father the month before I did the job (July) and I know she's bringing up her son (she's a single parent) and helping fund her two sisters. If she'd have come to me and said, "Look, i'm having problems and can you bear with me?" i'd have said yes and sorted something out on a monthly basis. But what p'd me off was that she sent me one message after my first visit to collect the late bill saying she'd been on holiday in Lazarote and that she'd posted the cheque "the day before" (later on the court form she stated she didn't have a cheque book...) and then another a bit later saying she'd pay "at the end of the month" (this was back in September).

I might never get the money, but for me it's the principle. People can't - generally - be allowed to get away with it.

well done mate!

[richard jagger]

Good for you Spruce. If we had a few more taken to court it will soon go around window cleaners take customers to court dept. But the best we can get is drop them and find two more.

[Spruce]

Good for you Spruce. If we had a few more taken to court it will soon go around window cleaners take customers to court dept. But the best we can get is drop them and find two more.

Carl2009 is the one to have a pat on the back 

[richard jagger]

Sorry Spruce just saw the name as I posted. All we need is more of these and have some of them in the papers. Windy expects his money. I would love it.

[Spruce]

Sorry Spruce just saw the name as I posted. All we need is more of these and have some of them in the papers. Windy expects his money. I would love it.

News like this will get around quite quickly even if its not in the papers. Within 2 days of us starting a window cleaning round we bought, the whole estate knew who we were. They also knew who was paying what for their window cleaning.

I also had to collect a parcel from the local sorting office 2 days after we started, took in my driver licence as proof of identification - not needed - she knew exactly who we were and I had never met her before in my life. In the last 8 years since we have had the round, I have never needed proof of id at that sorting office. They usually ask the wife for id though.

[Richard iSparkle]

I haven't either.

I'm currently chasing a £70 debt.

So far i've paid out £208.90 in legal fees and court costs. She will be forced to reimburse me all but around £20 or £30 of this,s o it's really going to cost her.

It's a long story but to cut it short she ignored my fone calls, home visits, a red letter, a letter before action from my solicitors (Thos Higgins - excellent), a summons and the court appearance. She got issued a CCJ, but then, after the deadline wrote to the court asking if i'd accept £20/month - I said I would. Then, before making a payment, she asked to increase to £30/month. Again I accepted.

The first payment was supposed to be made on 31st Oct, with a second on 16th Nov, then monthly thereafter. Guess what... Nothing, nada.

So, back to the solicitors and now the bailiffs will be calling. It's pity because she lost her father the month before I did the job (July) and I know she's bringing up her son (she's a single parent) and helping fund her two sisters. If she'd have come to me and said, "Look, i'm having problems and can you bear with me?" i'd have said yes and sorted something out on a monthly basis. But what p'd me off was that she sent me one message after my first visit to collect the late bill saying she'd been on holiday in Lazarote and that she'd posted the cheque "the day before" (later on the court form she stated she didn't have a cheque book...) and then another a bit later saying she'd pay "at the end of the month" (this was back in September).

I might never get the money, but for me it's the principle. People can't - generally - be allowed to get away with it.

if i had known all that about her situation i would have just dropped it myself. 

not worth the bad karma

[Carl2009]

[quote if i had known all that about her situation i would have just dropped it myself. 

not worth the bad karma
[/quote]

So, let's get this right. Someone asks you to do a clean. You go to price the job and in the course of pricing it you hear about her fathers' death, that she's a teacher, has a good support network and two older brothers who are both builders. It's a minging gutter and window first clean + a first clean on a 5 bedroomed detached house, neither of which has seen a windie since they were built; she wants the 4 windows + door of the mid-terraced done monthly. You agree the price (£70 for the gutters and first clean of both and £8 pm for the regular clean). She asks you how can she pay you. You explain the prepaid envelope or drop it off as you only live  amile away scenario. Will you be ok as it's on a road without pavements: yep, i'll park the van on the road so it shields me. You do it on your Saturday morning off.

The rest you know.

Sorry, just remind me who is at fault here?

[combat1]

Just come to the end for one of mine, only a twenty pound debt, two cleans sept and nov.
left answerphone message, please ring me, nothing. left another payment envelope stating I need to collect septembers, nothing. Left a note need to collect as accountants will take it over at end of month, nothing.
Waited for husband to be in and called explaining that the accountants give me so long to collect the debts, ' I only clean the windows, the accountants deal with the money'
Explained that the accountants sell the debt to a debt collectors who give them £30
They then add their costs and interest making it around £100. The guy started going pale!
Then if they dont get it they sell it to another agency who add costs etc.
At this point a shaky £20 note appeared.
All bull but it worked.
Result!

[lee_dewing]

Carl good for you.

Re thomas higgins letter before payment £2?

Say If that didn't work and i just wanted to leave it as small amount say £10 could i do that?

I do you set the wheels in motion.

Ps. not being sarcastic, how do you prove you've cleaned their windows in court?
Sorry i'm a dimbo
thanks lee

[Caleb Morley]

Good on ya mate for taking it all the way. Totally agree its the principle of it.

I had a lady try and knock me for £70 on a inside and out job in a really posh part of town, house circa £3-£4 million. She was having her whole house done up. She tried to say id done a bad job, even though id been there for 3 hours. I was already losing on the job as id underpriced. She tried to offer me £20 for the lot over email. A few emails went back and forth with her arguing.

As soon as I said Id be progressing it and taking her to the small claims court she paid.

Never give up, never give in.

Always take cash on the first clean aswell.

Cheers,

Caleb

[Richard iSparkle]

[quote if i had known all that about her situation i would have just dropped it myself. 

not worth the bad karma

So, let's get this right. Someone asks you to do a clean. You go to price the job and in the course of pricing it you hear about her fathers' death, that she's a teacher, has a good support network and two older brothers who are both builders. It's a minging gutter and window first clean + a first clean on a 5 bedroomed detached house, neither of which has seen a windie since they were built; she wants the 4 windows + door of the mid-terraced done monthly. You agree the price (£70 for the gutters and first clean of both and £8 pm for the regular clean). She asks you how can she pay you. You explain the prepaid envelope or drop it off as you only live  amile away scenario. Will you be ok as it's on a road without pavements: yep, i'll park the van on the road so it shields me. You do it on your Saturday morning off.

The rest you know.

Sorry, just remind me who is at fault here?
[/quote]

well it's not really about fault is it.  it is about getting the best outcome for yourself. 

how much time have you spent with this action, how much energy have you put into it?  and how much work would you have brought in if you had of forgiven her and worked on bringing in new work?

also all the extra detail you have given in your more recent coment above, gives a very different slant to your original....  "It's pity because she lost her father the month before I did the job (July) and I know she's bringing up her son (she's a single parent) and helping fund her two sisters. "

[Carl2009]

I have spent time on this and i'll be happy to spend some more on it too! I haven't lost any work as I have only ever canvassed the first 3 months when I set the business up back in April 2009 - all other work comes to me from word of mouth (total advertising cost to date £10). In fact I can't really take any more work on as I like to have spare days in the week for bad weather.

I can't see how the extra info changes either the original post, or the fact that she,

1) Shouldn't have work done that she can't afford
2) Lied to me on 2 seperate occassions about her intentions of paying.

I live in a small community of a few hundred people some of whom I clean. I want the message to get round that I need to be paid for my work. Now's here's an important bit - 90% of my time and effort was spent in trying to get her to pay before I got Thos Higgins involved, numerous phone calls and door knocking etc. Post Thos Higgins - hardly anything. So I wouldn't have saved much angst or energy if i'd have dropped it at the point I went to Thos Higgins. That was all part of the consideration (and I did consider things carefully) of what action to take.

The "best outcome for me" would have been that she paid me the original £70 back when I did the job, yet despite trying my best she wasn't having it.

Now the best outcome is that she pays me what she owes me and her costs. Failing that i'll write it off.

I'll tell you something though - i'll be taking the same action again if I get another (i've done it before and I got my £300 + costs in that case).
The principleis important to me, but I understand you might feel differently.

Why am I like this. Well its partly down to an experience in another job. In a previous life I was helping to start a business now called The Adventure Company. It's a tour operator and when we were starting it we needed every single £1. I had a woman on the phone who said that she'd sent us a cheque for her final payment (due at 8 weeks and this was at 6 weeks). I said we haven't got it and we need payment now or her holiday would be cancelled and we'd keep her deposit (its at this point that we have to commit to paying for all her services, so if she defaulted we'd be out of pocket). She screamed blue murder and I took a Switch payment saying i'd rip up the cheque when we got it and post it back to her. She said, "Well actually its here on the mantelpiece - I haven't posted it yet". All buyers are liers as the saying goes. That experience could have affected our business badly. In fact we nearly went under at one stage and had to take pay cuts to keep afloat.

Happily i'm a WC now, but the principle remains. You have to pay for goods and services you buy.

[Carl2009]

Say If that didn't work and i just wanted to leave it as small amount say £10 could i do that?

I do you set the wheels in motion.

Ps. not being sarcastic, how do you prove you've cleaned their windows in court?

Sorry Lee, I don't understand what you mean?

Re the proving things in court. I can produce numbered invoices. Alternatively I had a witness (I picked up another job whilst I was doing the clean).

[lee_dewing]

Hi Carl sorry if i'm asking silly questions.

1) say i set thomas higgins after someone for £10; first thing is a £2 letter before payment.

If custie still doesn't pay £10, i suppose i then have the option to chase at a further cost to myself.

Think someone said on here a statistic 70-80% of people pay on getting letter befor payment.


2) Not trying to be akward just wondered how you prove in court that you've cleaned someone's windows,
not trying to make fun Carl genuinely intrested as i could be in your shoes one day and want to know i've done everything by the book.

I suppose point 2) could be said of a lot of services proofing the custie has had mentioned service.

Thanks for your replies Carl as said not trying to have fun with you I want to be ready for this situation as i have walked away from a few depts over the years i 8 years on my own as a windie probably amounts to £150

Use to get a lot of xmas tips so used to see it as that cancelled out p'takers.

(wrong i know) and now not getting xmas tips

[Spruce]

I have spent time on this and i'll be happy to spend some more on it too! I haven't lost any work as I have only ever canvassed the first 3 months when I set the business up back in April 2009 - all other work comes to me from word of mouth (total advertising cost to date £10). In fact I can't really take any more work on as I like to have spare days in the week for bad weather.

I can't see how the extra info changes either the original post, or the fact that she,

1) Shouldn't have work done that she can't afford
2) Lied to me on 2 seperate occassions about her intentions of paying.

I live in a small community of a few hundred people some of whom I clean. I want the message to get round that I need to be paid for my work. Now's here's an important bit - 90% of my time and effort was spent in trying to get her to pay before I got Thos Higgins involved, numerous phone calls and door knocking etc. Post Thos Higgins - hardly anything. So I wouldn't have saved much angst or energy if i'd have dropped it at the point I went to Thos Higgins. That was all part of the consideration (and I did consider things carefully) of what action to take.

The "best outcome for me" would have been that she paid me the original £70 back when I did the job, yet despite trying my best she wasn't having it.

Now the best outcome is that she pays me what she owes me and her costs. Failing that i'll write it off.

I'll tell you something though - i'll be taking the same action again if I get another (i've done it before and I got my £300 + costs in that case).
The principleis important to me, but I understand you might feel differently.

Why am I like this. Well its partly down to an experience in another job. In a previous life I was helping to start a business now called The Adventure Company. It's a tour operator and when we were starting it we needed every single £1. I had a woman on the phone who said that she'd sent us a cheque for her final payment (due at 8 weeks and this was at 6 weeks). I said we haven't got it and we need payment now or her holiday would be cancelled and we'd keep her deposit (its at this point that we have to commit to paying for all her services, so if she defaulted we'd be out of pocket). She screamed blue murder and I took a Switch payment saying i'd rip up the cheque when we got it and post it back to her. She said, "Well actually its here on the mantelpiece - I haven't posted it yet". All buyers are liers as the saying goes. That experience could have affected our business badly. In fact we nearly went under at one stage and had to take pay cuts to keep afloat.

Happily i'm a WC now, but the principle remains. You have to pay for goods and services you buy.

This is the important bit and worth spending time on, especially if you are a quiet guy, 'meek and mild', then people may think they can easily take advantage of you. I'm wondering how much of the story regarding her life is true. Did her father die? Is she supporting her sister's kids etc? Lie about one thing and you can lie about anything.

Some people have the belief that they can do what they want. In the early days I did a first clean and never got paid for it. Nice plasma tv on the lounge wall but he eventually didn't even bother to answer a knock on the door or window. I wrote the debt off.

7 years later, he sees me cleaning my regulars, and comes over to ask me to clean his. Mr Cor......, you owe me money from a previous clean so no I won't be cleaning your windows. "I don't owe anybody any money, are you going to clean them or not?" Well you still owe me money and no I'm not going to clean them. He walked off telling me it was my lose.

Just as he was walking back across the road, another windie drove past in his van who I know he owed lots to and was going to take him to court. I flagged the guy down and asked him if he had got his money.
Yes his girlfriend paid up within moments of entering the court building. That was a £70 bill that turned into nearly £300 for them.  

[dave0123]

Ive gone as far as taking them to court with Thomas Higgins and good for me is the company is only based up the road! so it looks like my local solicitors lol. however always been paid before going to court but they end up paying all the costs of setting up the court proceedings.

a doctor owed me £33.00 for his house once and i did court proceedings for this just out of principal really annoyed me ignoring all letters! he ended up paying 100 odd pound  :

[Spruce]

Hi Carl sorry if i'm asking silly questions.

1) say i set thomas higgins after someone for £10; first thing is a £2 letter before payment.

If custie still doesn't pay £10, i suppose i then have the option to chase at a further cost to myself.

Think someone said on here a statistic 70-80% of people pay on getting letter befor payment.


2) Not trying to be akward just wondered how you prove in court that you've cleaned someone's windows,not trying to make fun Carl genuinely intrested as i could be in your shoes one day and want to know i've done everything by the book.

I suppose point 2) could be said of a lot of services proofing the custie has had mentioned service.

Thanks for your replies Carl as said not trying to have fun with you I want to be ready for this situation as i have walked away from a few depts over the years i 8 years on my own as a windie probably amounts to £150

Use to get a lot of xmas tips so used to see it as that cancelled out p'takers.

(wrong i know) and now not getting xmas tips

This is a very good question. Hence the reason why you have to keep a paper trail of your daily work schedule whether it's in a book or on computer. If they haven't paid a reminder via letter with proof of postage and receipt is important. A text message is also proof of communication.  If the customer doesn't respond within 2 weeks then they have accepted the contents of that letter.

We cleaned one house and money was always difficult to get from him - his girlfriend was usually the one who paid his bill. After trying to get payment for 3 cleans, he eventually he told my son that he didn't know who he was, never met him before and was going to call the police if he continued to harass him for a job he didn't do.

Yes, we could have called in a few of his neighbours to prove that he did know who we were and that we had cleaned his house for a few years, but It just wasn't worth it. His new girlfriend was also ranting and raving in the background. My son was very upset at this, but we just walked away. Who knows, they could have been on drugs for all we know.

Overseas I learnt a lesson while driving once. Another driver cut me cut and I blew my horn and flashed my lights and made rude hand gestures at him when I had to take avoiding action after an overtaking maneuver he had done. The guy slowed down , reached under his seat and pulled a revolver on me. I was right, but he had the upper hand. In some cases fighting for your rights ain't worth it.