[Richard iSparkle]

As Tosh rightly described, i was once one of those window cleaners with "more credit then sense", and i bought a concept2o system. Worst mistake of my life. I finally got rid of it last month (not to some poor clueless window cleaner like me, but to the hard nosed finance company).

Although majorly out of pocket now, it the best decision i made.

This system does nothing better then any other one out there, its not crash tested, its just very shiny! And for me, unlike Richard Speech, the process wasnt hassle free.

The next time i want a "professional" system i will go to the professionals like Ionics or Freedom and get something not shiny, but safely fitted, and something that works all day.

Obviously everyone can make their own decision, and has their own opinion. Sounds like Richard has had no probs. I would encourage anyone thnking of any  system to thouroughly do your homework.

The lesson i have learned is its not any system that earns you money-a Concept2o will not earn you more then a DIY or gardiners or anything.At the end of the day its just 2 tanks a pump and a controller. Its your mindset and as always its down to profit-keeping costs down!

Hey Millenium!

What problems did you have?  and how did you go about selling a WC system to a finance company?  that sounds like a real story?!

[Perfect Windows]

Good points Vin.

I'm not knowledgeable about Ionics systems or Pure 2O.

Gardiner's are a company who I like to deal with and I hold them in very high regard.  Grippa are good from my dealings too, tho they are relatively new on the scene arent they for systems?  I don't honestly know about their systems.

As far as I am aware a great deal of the price difference in systems of Concept 2O systems comes from the very high quality steel frame.  I know they are obsessive about safety, reliability and durability of their systems.  This is because they run a seriously efficient window cleaning business themselves, serving serious numbers of customers everyday.  they just can't operate a business on their scale without these standards.  maybe for people who don't serve so many customers this system would be over spec?

Grippamax is the new version of the Super Zero that Gardiners briefly sold (fortunately for me, during the month I was setting up).  It's in a steel frame that isn't going anywhere (witness the video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrbvYwVQWZw )

Your final paragraph could have been written about Gardiners.

Vin

[Scrimble]

complete waste of money,

nothing wrong with a metal framed tank and a lpg fogwash heater, i have a diy set up in my van which suits me perfectly, it does exactly the same as the concept2o system but costs thousands less,

[Nick Wareham]

I think we're all missing something important...

This "deal" from concept2o - the way I understand it you don't own the system at the end of the 3 years.  You hand it back and take out another 3 year agreement.

So basically your paying £12,000 odd to rent a system for 3 years, without a van.

Bargain! (Not)

[Small but perfectley formed]

How are you millennium wc hope every thing is good in Grimsby .

[KS Cleaning]

As Tosh rightly described, i was once one of those window cleaners with "more credit then sense", and i bought a concept2o system. Worst mistake of my life. I finally got rid of it last month (not to some poor clueless window cleaner like me, but to the hard nosed finance company).

Although majorly out of pocket now, it the best decision i made.

This system does nothing better then any other one out there, its not crash tested, its just very shiny! And for me, unlike Richard Speech, the process wasnt hassle free.

The next time i want a "professional" system i will go to the professionals like Ionics or Freedom and get something not shiny, but safely fitted, and something that works all day.

Obviously everyone can make their own decision, and has their own opinion. Sounds like Richard has had no probs. I would encourage anyone thnking of any  system to thouroughly do your homework.

The lesson i have learned is its not any system that earns you money-a Concept2o will not earn you more then a DIY or gardiners or anything.At the end of the day its just 2 tanks a pump and a controller. Its your mindset and as always its down to profit-keeping costs down!

Sorry to hear that Millenium,I was a bit more fortunate than you,I was about to change over from trad to WFP so was a bit of a novice as far as systems go,Concept tried to sell me a hot system that was absolutely no use for a 2 man operation.It was a"demonstrator model"600l 1 man system and they said they can upgrade it to 2 man system no problem, so I paid a deposit of 2K.After doing a bit of research myself and getting advice on the forum it became apparent the 5KW system would be useless for 2 men.I phoned them and they tried to fob me off,saying i could have 1 reel hot and 1 reel cold .I demanded my deposit back as I had been mis-sold their demonstrator model.They eventually agreed to return my deposit but only when they found another buyer for the 1 MAN SYSTEM nearly 4 months later.All in all a lucky escape from a company I would not trust!

[Spruce]

I think we're all missing something important...

This "deal" from concept2o - the way I understand it you don't own the system at the end of the 3 years.  You hand it back and take out another 3 year agreement.So basically your paying £12,000 odd to rent a system for 3 years, without a van.

Bargain! (Not)

That's right. What they haven't stated is what the next rental is all about. In other words, you are asked for a deposit of £3900 + VAT this time to get your installation started, so I expect they have a fitting charge included in those figures.

I would imagine that the unit would be handed back, but is that used as the deposit (initial payment) against the next unit or will this be a new rental with a new deposit. That will be hidden in the small print.

Renting isn't all bad; its just that some have a problem with not owning what they are perceived to be paying for. But if you buy a car on hp, the car may be registered in your name, but the finance house still owns it until you have made the final payment. Once you have made the final payment, you are now the proud owner of a used depreciated car. Usually at this point the owners find some reason to trade the car in and start the process again on another vehicle. If you do this, then it doesn't make a difference whether you rented or bought.

If you bought and the values of second hand cars fell like it did 12 years ago, then you would carry the risk of the lower value at the end of the term. With a rented car, the finance houses had to suffer that lower value.

Handing the system back isn't as easy as handing a car back. Someone has to remove it, so I'm sure there is a lot more to this agreement than meets the eye.

If Concept is carrying the leasing risk (no credit checks) then they need to have some 'guarantee' that this system is protected. What would be the insurance requirements should the van it's in be involved in an accident? If you change your van 2 years into the rental agreement, who fits this system into your new van and at what cost?

There must be other senarios that could happen that they will never discuss with you as it would probably jeopardise their sale.

[Ian101]

bargain ...... put me down for 2 at those prices ... have 1 spare in case of a problem

[Richard iSparkle]

It is interesting to read all the comments on here about the Concept 2O leasing offer.

For all that some people are saying about this, my own experience is that in just over 2 years I've built up a business that runs very smoothly and makes a very healthy profit using Concept 2Os system and their mentoring.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people criticising this offer as too expensive, are some of the same people who literally do not believe the figures that I have posted as having achieved day in day out for the past 12 months.

I do not doubt that you can buy or make systems that are substantially cheaper than the Concept 2O.  It is never advertised as a budget system.  They are offering a professionally put together system, with full support and backup...  as well as in this instance the servicing and running costs included.  If you get it as part of the their franchise package then you are paying a lot up front, as with any decent franchise, but you are going to get the business plan and mentoring support you need to set up and run a highly profitable business, with a great lifestyle.

is it for everyone?  No of course not.  But for those who can afford it, it is a really great option...  and this offer makes it much more affordable for many more people.

[Ian101]

I beleive your daily figures .... Ive seen your guys working    

however these lease figures are just for the machine only and not a franchise / mentoring ... unless Im wrong as not sen email.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

It is interesting to read all the comments on here about the Concept 2O leasing offer.

For all that some people are saying about this, my own experience is that in just over 2 years I've built up a business that runs very smoothly and makes a very healthy profit using Concept 2Os system and their mentoring.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the people criticising this offer as too expensive, are some of the same people who literally do not believe the figures that I have posted as having achieved day in day out for the past 12 months.

I do not doubt that you can buy or make systems that are substantially cheaper than the Concept 2O.  It is never advertised as a budget system.  They are offering a professionally put together system, with full support and backup...  as well as in this instance the servicing and running costs included.  If you get it as part of the their franchise package then you are paying a lot up front, as with any decent franchise, but you are going to get the business plan and mentoring support you need to set up and run a highly profitable business, with a great lifestyle.

is it for everyone?  No of course not.  But for those who can afford it, it is a really great option...  and this offer makes it much more affordable for many more people.

Your justification is embarrassing dude!

[ARWindows]

I bought my first concept system 6 years ago and the support from Julie and her team was fantastic. I was never a do it your self man [not that way inclined]. Since then i have bought another of their systems and have been very satisfied with their service. Before window cleaning i used to run cafes the initial investment was considerably more than a new van and system at about 20k. However the returns are very high compared to investment. The future of window cleaning is in dedicated high class service.

[Tom White]

The future of window cleaning is in dedicated high class service.

And what's this got to do with a hugely overpriced system?

[Steve Sed]

Is it the Hotbox you are all talking about? Unless I am misreading it, there is not a £3,000 deposit. That is the non credit price.

[Richard iSparkle]

I beleive your daily figures .... Ive seen your guys working    

however these lease figures are just for the machine only and not a franchise / mentoring ... unless Im wrong as not sen email.

hey ian!

you are quite right, this offer doesn't include the franchise.  however, i believe that Julie and the team are hoping that this will help people purchase the franchise.  i guess i would need to check though.

[Richard iSparkle]

The future of window cleaning is in dedicated high class service.

And what's this got to do with a hugely overpriced system?

I imagine that he is referring to the dedicated high class service that Julie and the Concept 2O team provide.  That is one of the main reasons I use them myself.  It's not just the system, but the support you get with their systems.  I had a problem with the pump on my system just yesterday and Julie was on the phone to me within  20 minutes, and then again this morning to follow up with me and make sure it was all sorted.  that's an example of how they operate.  you dont get that with a DIY system

[Frankybadboy]

The future of window cleaning is in dedicated high class service.

And what's this got to do with a hugely overpriced system?

I imagine that he is referring to the dedicated high class service that Julie and the Concept 2O team provide.  That is one of the main reasons I use them myself.  It's not just the system, but the support you get with their systems.  I had a problem with the pump on my system just yesterday and Julie was on the phone to me within  20 minutes, and then again this morning to follow up with me and make sure it was all sorted.  that's an example of how they operate.  you dont get that with a DIY system

no yer right you dont get that with a diy system,i dont have to phone a women up in a office, i can fix it me self.
and a bit more money in me pocket too

[Perfect Windows]

I imagine that he is referring to the dedicated high class service that Julie and the Concept 2O team provide.  That is one of the main reasons I use them myself.  It's not just the system, but the support you get with their systems.  I had a problem with the pump on my system just yesterday and Julie was on the phone to me within  20 minutes, and then again this morning to follow up with me and make sure it was all sorted.  that's an example of how they operate.  you dont get that with a DIY system

Richard,

You are repeating the same mistake.  You again commit the error of comparing your system with a DIY system.  I wasn't doing so.  I was comparing with a professionally fitted, crash-tested, supported pair of products from Pure2O and Gardiners/Grippa.  I've never had to phone Gardiners about my system but you know the level of support I would get.

Both of which cost less than the deposit on the Concept2O.

I know you're happy with Concept2O, but can you not see any possible truth in what I might be saying? You seem blind to any possibility that there might be a better offer out there.

Anyway, I've said what I have to say enough times; I'll leave it now.

Vin

[Richard iSparkle]

I imagine that he is referring to the dedicated high class service that Julie and the Concept 2O team provide.  That is one of the main reasons I use them myself.  It's not just the system, but the support you get with their systems.  I had a problem with the pump on my system just yesterday and Julie was on the phone to me within  20 minutes, and then again this morning to follow up with me and make sure it was all sorted.  that's an example of how they operate.  you dont get that with a DIY system

Richard,

You are repeating the same mistake.  You again commit the error of comparing your system with a DIY system.  I wasn't doing so.  I was comparing with a professionally fitted, crash-tested, supported pair of products from Pure2O and Gardiners/Grippa.  I've never had to phone Gardiners about my system but you know the level of support I would get.

Both of which cost less than the deposit on the Concept2O.

I know you're happy with Concept2O, but can you not see any possible truth in what I might be saying? You seem blind to any possibility that there might be a better offer out there.

Anyway, I've said what I have to say enough times; I'll leave it now.

Vin

out of interest Vin,  are they hot wash systems you're comparing it to?

[thermoclean]

The concept 2o systems is basically a quality stainless steel frame with a rannai 16i LPG heater.  I picked up one of these heaters for £550, even if you add in the cost of around £2000 for a crash tested frame and tank like the grippatank system and add say £500 for fitting the £12000 price is very expensive.