[Neil Gornall]

So what was the problem; if you personally have no objection to cleaning the windows of a building belonging to whatever faith it was? You both acted in accord with Matthew 22 v 15 - 22.

Sorry, no one by the name Matthew works for me. I dont know the fella.

[boshravie]

Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"

Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.

Well, let's start with considering where morals come from.  Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention?  And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?

With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.

And also, you're questioning someone's morals.  Is that moral?  When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'.  Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say?  I think there's some wisdom in that.

Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'.  I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash?  Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars.  Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?

What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of  asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not.  It really boils down to INTENTION.  I could, for example, kill my dog.  If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong.  But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate.  So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.

Intention is everything.

I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.

Hope that helps.  

Excellent post Tosh  i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. 

[Tom White]

Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"

Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.

Well, let's start with considering where morals come from.  Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention?  And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?

With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.

And also, you're questioning someone's morals.  Is that moral?  When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'.  Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say?  I think there's some wisdom in that.

Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'.  I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash?  Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars.  Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?

What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of  asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not.  It really boils down to INTENTION.  I could, for example, kill my dog.  If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong.  But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate.  So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.

Intention is everything.

I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.

Hope that helps.  

Excellent post Tosh  i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. 

That surprises me.  I know you believe in a Creator God (I assume of a Biblical nature), so if you agree that we don't have free will, that we are a product of our genetic inheritance and experiences (which we have little or no control over either), that kinda goes against the grain of traditional Christianity which asserts that we have a choice to turn to, or away from a 'God'.

Unfortunately those clever neuroscientists say that we don't have free will either.  It may feel like we do, but we don't.  Think about your desires; if you can see you have little or no control over your desires, then you will understand.

[G Griffin]

when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service .  round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud.  his name was neil dear , believe it or not !

So he was defrocked twice?
I bet you're not legally married, then, Bobby. Is that a good or bad thing? 

[boshravie]

Now is it just me, or is the church meant to be the upholder of morals? did our prime minister not say only a few weeks ago that it is morally wrong to ask a tradesman to work for "cash"

Great a philosophical discussion; I love it.

Well, let's start with considering where morals come from.  Were they created at the point of the Big Bang, or is there a God who created morals, or are morals some kinda man made invention?  And are MPs the guardians of our moral behaviour (that's quite funny really)?

With some thought you will discover that morals do not inherently exist on their own side; it takes a conceptual mind to impute an understanding of morality onto an event.

And also, you're questioning someone's morals.  Is that moral?  When you consider that the person asking has a brain structure that is produced from his genetic inheritance, and experiences of which he/she had no control over, you will realise that 'free will' is not something that is totally 'free'.  Don't judge a man unless you've walked a mile in his shoes; isn't that what they say?  I think there's some wisdom in that.

Also, you cannot know for sure what the person's intention was who asked you if you 'could do it for cash'.  I mean, what if he thought if he saved a few quid by asking for a 'cash job', he then could go buy more food for the hungry with the saved cash?  Maybe he thought if you knocked off the VAT (he would've maybe assumed you were VAT registered), that it was less money to be spent on overseas wars.  Wouldn't those two things be a moral intention?

What I'm saying is, without understanding the intention of  asking for the job to be done 'for cash', you cannot know whether it is moral or not.  It really boils down to INTENTION.  I could, for example, kill my dog.  If I did that for pleasure, that would possibly be morally wrong.  But if I did it because my dog was suffering badly with cancer and I wanted to relieve him of his suffering, then my intention would be compassionate.  So the same act can be either moral or immoral; the only difference is the intention behind that act.

Intention is everything.

I personally would've just went and quoted for the job and charged the same, whether it was for cash or some other form of payment type.

Hope that helps.  

Excellent post Tosh  i thoroughly enjoyed reading it. 

That surprises me.  I know you believe in a Creator God (I assume of a Biblical nature), so if you agree that we don't have free will, that we are a product of our genetic inheritance and experiences (which we have little or no control over either), that kinda goes against the grain of traditional Christianity which asserts that we have a choice to turn to, or away from a 'God'.

Unfortunately those clever neuroscientists say that we don't have free will either.  It may feel like we do, but we don't.  Think about your desires; if you can see you have little or no control over your desires, then you will understand.

Tosh
You should have been philosopher. You are a wasted talent 

[G Griffin]

when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service .  round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud.  his name was neil dear , believe it or not !

Well, at least you knew what the 'Terms Of N. Dear meant'.

[Tom White]

when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service .  round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud.  his name was neil dear , believe it or not !

Well, at least you knew what the 'Terms Of N. Dear meant'.

Your jokes are getting worse, Griff.  Is everything okay at home? 

[G Griffin]

 

when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service .  round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud.  his name was neil dear , believe it or not !

Well, at least you knew what the 'Terms Of N. Dear meant'.

Your jokes are getting worse, Griff.  Is everything okay at home? 

Yeah, sound  .
They just get ignored at home; maybe a forced, false laugh or smile. This is my only means of doing them but that one did me laugh out of embarassment  .
Anyway, I'm only practicing for the Post of the Month awards. But I predict ccmids will return and monopolise it.

[shina]

when i got married the vic took "cash only" for the service .  round at my house he came over as a decent bloke who had once worked as a corn trader -few yrs later he got caught wearing womens clothes in a north norfolk public loo and had to leave under a cloud.  his name was neil dear , believe it or not !

So he was defrocked twice?
I bet you're not legally married, then, Bobby. Is that a good or bad thing? 

Lol, that makes me laugh

[Pete10]

Tosh you are using a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

1) Morals are not conceptual and therefore do not require an appreciation of conceptuality to be understood/ comprehended or even adhered to.

2)However, this is not a moral issue, tax evasion through the payment of cash is a crime - this has its basis in fact, regardless of whether the cash is subsequently used to help more people worship the baby Jesus or feed the worlds hungry.

If in doubt ask on an issue of morality just ask your self, "how are the jury going to view this.......?"

[g.brookes]

If in doubt ask on an issue of morality just ask your self, "how are the jury going to view this.......?"

try read camu's 'The Stranger' and say that again

[Pete10]

It's on my reading list.......just behind fifty shades of grey and The bible...