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Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
reverse graffiti
« on: August 15, 2012, 08:43:28 am »
Got my first campaign tonight. any pointers fro. the guys that do it? Tips on easiest way to spray so i dont f*** it up

Blast Away

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 05:19:48 pm »
Depends what your stencil is made from mate. If you've got that Mylar crap then I'd drop your revs if I were you.

We use Diabond and 12'' Mosmatic. Turbo nozzles wouldn't damage ours.

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 06:27:52 pm »
Not sure what its made of. looks like aluminium on the outside. Bit of weight to it.

You mean drop the revs so it doesnt tear up the stencil or so it doesnt blow away haha.

Blast Away

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 06:45:15 pm »
Not sure what its made of. looks like aluminium on the outside. Bit of weight to it.

You mean drop the revs so it doesnt tear up the stencil or so it doesnt blow away haha.



Is it like this?

You'll need to put your foot on mate to stop the slightest movement. Mylar is good for small detail and is what's used when laser cutting. Diabond is what's in the image above and is cut with a router. You can't do small detail as the ties need to be large enough to hold.
I've used mylar though and on some occasions it's been fine but some just broken away at the ties.

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 07:16:39 pm »
Just had a closer look. looks to be solid ali sheet. yeah figured id need to hold it down with my foot. just gonna have to get oit there and get it done. pis#ing witb rain here too

Blast Away

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 08:02:01 pm »
Been bad here today too. How many impressions are you doing?

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 08:04:41 pm »
Just 15. All local in city center. bit worried about one location. shopping street. might leave that one till last.

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 09:23:51 pm »
Comin up poope. grounds either too rough and the letters merge or its black granite slabs. b******s to glasgow city center.

Blast Away

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 09:31:49 pm »
Reminds me of Newcastle.

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 09:49:01 pm »
What did you do

Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 10:08:35 pm »
Interesting one this.

I've been thinking of getting involved since seeing Blastaway's post last week.

Emails may well follow with just a few questions  :o

Rob_Mac

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 10:26:32 pm »
Hello all.

I'm posting here because I was looking for case law on the same thing and my searches brought me through to this discussion. I work for a council and it's my job to clean graffiti within our district. I thought passing on this message will help clear up what can and can't be done.

This is written by a respected lawyer. He is replying to a question raised by another council about cleaning up after another such 'legal' campaign.

I hope you find this useful.

Mike.






"This is a practice commonly known now as “griming” in London. Unfortunately for [a named company] they are only partially right, if they are right – it is illegal. It is a form of criminal damage, as evidenced by the very fact that you have been required to get them to remove it. It is indeed no less an act of graffiti simply because it is done for corporate commercial gain. Criminal damage need not be permanent and it is sufficient damage if the person in control will be put to time and / or expense to put the highway back into a satisfactory condition.

Section 132 Highways ACT 1980 provides:
A person who, without either the consent of the highway authority for the highway in question or an authorisation given by or under an enactment or a reasonable excuse, paints or otherwise inscribes or affixes any picture, letter, sign or other mark upon the surface of a highway or upon any tree, structure or works on or in a highway is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding £100 or, in the case of a second or subsequent conviction under this subsection, to a fine not exceeding £200.

I am not entirely convinced that there is a loophole here. I believe the intent [of the legislation] was clearly to prohibit application of unauthorised marks on highway surfaces and it is extremely disingenuous to claim that this form of marking does not fall within that intent. In order to carry out this operation those concerned affixed a picture or mark (the stencil) in order to leave the permanent mark.

I would be inclined to charge both offences and see what a court makes of it.
Of course, you could always remind them that it does fall within the definition of an advertisement - “any word, letter, model, sign, placard, board, notice, awning, blind, device or representation, whether illuminated or not, in the nature of, and employed wholly or partly for the purposes of, advertisement, announcement or direction, and (without prejudice to the previous provisions of this definition) includes any hoarding or similar structure used, or designed or adapted for use, and anything else principally used, or designed or adapted principally for use, for the display of advertisements”.

It is not exempt from regulatory control and does not attract deemed consent.
To quote from the Control of Advertisements Regulations:
All advertisements, other than the excepted classes mentioned in paragraph 9 above, require consent before they can be lawfully displayed. Any person who displays an advertisement in contravention of the Regulations is guilty of an offence under section 224(3) of the 1990 Act and liable to a fine on conviction.

I have just googled this and come across the above. I personally would not use this method but I would be interested in whether there has been any gain, specifically from this form of advertising and if the answer is yes have the people contacting you mentioned the reverse graffiti as the reason for calling.

Rob ;D

Matt Gibson

  • Posts: 2482
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 10:36:18 pm »
Im not advertising my company rob. but i am gaining from it. im getting paid ;D

Blast Away

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2012, 07:59:54 am »
Quote
in order to leave the permanent mark
Nothing permanent about reverse graffiti.

That wording will backfire on them. 'kin suits on power trips. F**k the lot of 'em.

They're only concerned because we're embarrassing them by revealing clean paving.

Got a campaign booked in for Manchester in a couple of week, try and stop me.

Rob_Mac

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2012, 08:50:31 am »
'Criminal damage need not be permanent' from the above.

I am playing devils advocate and don't really care who puts what where but if this appeared on my property and I hadn't asked for it I would look on the internet to see what the general opinion was and go from there.

In my eyes you are placing an advert on a surface and to get rid of the advert further works will have to be carried out.

The patina of a surface is what it is and whatever your opinion of that, whether you think it should be cleaned or not you don't have any right to do this. If you do feel you have the right then go and ask your local police station/solicitors whether you can use the methodology on their dirty paving

If I get my logo and put it onto your downstairs front room window - permanent or not, would you be very happy with my argument that I just felt you should clean the window.

I will say again I am not against it and I am all for innovative ways of advertising but the argument that it is not permanent is a bit wishy washy as we all know that the mark will be there for a good few months until it has blended in again.

Matt - if you are getting paid for it i would be interested to know about this angle

Rob ;D

Rob_Mac

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 09:10:11 am »
Lee

OOOH lee touchy subject?.  ;D

I prescribe a bottle of alcohol and a curry!

Rob ;D


Griffus

  • Posts: 1942
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 09:15:00 am »
It is an interesting one for sure, legally I mean.

I think that any case for prosection would be tricky to prove, has an offence even been committed? I'd assume this would come down to whether permanent or not but this may not be the case as in effect the overall appearance would be changed.

Maybe it wilkl just come down to the old boys club and whichever side they support.

If I were to inscribe 'Clean me - I.D. Pro-Clean can do this and more when you call them on ********' on a dirty shop window or dirty road sign wouldn't that be the same offence?     Put like this I doubt very much there would be any case to answer.    Would it therefore boil down to time, i.e. how long the surface will look different, what is the legal definition of permanent, and does that even matter  ???

I'll ask around and post back if I find any meaty info.

Roger Oakley

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 03:19:33 pm »
I think that this sounds like an argument about permissions firstly.
After doing events for many years, I had to deal with various councils and TFL.

You can do most things, as long as you have permission, and with this "stunt" to me it sounds like nobody does, hence the criminal aspect.

Blast Away

Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 05:31:16 pm »
It is a touchy subject Rob.

Sick of these bulls**t laws, scraping the bottom of the barrel in any way they can to pull in more funds.

I've done RG for homeless organisations and NHS safe drinking campaigns and even arts, youth and theatre groups helping kids get involved and off the streets and had no problems. Advertise my own domain name and they don't like it.


Simon Blades

  • Posts: 30
Re: reverse graffiti
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 09:48:59 am »
Hi all

When pressure washing reverse graffiti on say a pedestrian only high street, do you guys just drive up there and get on with it? Then presumably do a runner!!!??? Or do you get permission from local authorities first?   How does it work? ???

Thanks

Simon