[Smudger]

Okay,  we currently 'employ' a chap on a self employed sub-contract basis,
he does his own round in his own van and we take a % of the value,
on occasions we doubled up on commercial work as my van could not carry enough
water or all the equipment (gutter vac)

but now we have a new van that now takes 1000 ltrs + gutter vac equipment etc..
and are streamlining the rounds into 2 man days - this means he will now work with me
and not using his van.

He has his own 'biz' - buying and selling antiques for sale in auctions and on ebay.

SO
with change in how we operate
will he still be classed as a subby or will he become an employee ??

any experiences welcome

Darran

[Blue Frog Systems]

Employee ... still doing it on a sub contract basis could get you in trouble with the tax man.

[Smudger]

see thats the rub -

are they - as they have 'other work'/biz ?

Darran

[Pope vader]

get him to provide his own pole and reel,  then bill you for hours worked thorugh his other business and you should be ok

[alank]

I HAVE ONE LAD DOES 16-20 HOURS A WEEK FOR ME,HE IS SELF EMPLOYED USES HIS OWN EQUIPMENT. HE BILLS ME WEEKLY FOR THE HOURS HE WORKS MY ACCOUNTANT SAID THIS IS OK. WE WORK OUT OF ONE VEHICLE AND DO THE SAME JOBS, I STILL PAY EMPLOYERS INSURANCE TO COVER HIM HE PAYS HIS OWN PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE.

[AS Window Cleaning]

my understanding is so long as he doesn't work mainly for you. then you can get away with him being self employed.

I had lad working 1 or 2 days per week for me. as he did same for someone else he could be classed as self employed freelance.

so my Feelin is he is self employed as he has his own business. but could always check with tax inspector. and if your accountant thinks so too then I'd go along with it.....

[Smudger]

at the moment it will be max 2 days a week - accountant very woolly on this subject as there seems
to be no defined answer

depends on how many hours we give him  - how much he does himself - the lines are quite fuzzy

Darran

[stuart mc]

Darran just do it, if you trust the guy, he has his own business, he has his own equipment, ok he may use yours but hey who will ever know

[king marko]

I worked 'self employed' for a local window cleaning company.
I used his van, wore his uniform, filled up with his water, and all the equipment was his-I had to provide the fuel, my own public liability insurance and then just invoiced him after every completed round (50%) .
He's got 5 blokes working for him like this and has been operating for about 5/6 years with no probs.
I'd like to know any thoughts on this??

[Paul Coleman]

I worked 'self employed' for a local window cleaning company.
I used his van, wore his uniform, filled up with his water, and all the equipment was his-I had to provide the fuel, my own public liability insurance and then just invoiced him after every completed round (50%) .
He's got 5 blokes working for him like this and has been operating for about 5/6 years with no probs.
I'd like to know any thoughts on this??

I would say that was an employee who should be on PAYE.
He owned the equipment.  Presumably you didn't have any income (or very little income) from elsewhere.

Here are the relevant pages - from the horse's mouth so to speak

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/esi.htm

and

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm

[Smudger]

Thanks Stu!

cheers Mark - great feedback thats the sort of experieces i was hoping to find out  

Darran

[king marko]

This was my full time job chap (took over from brother-in-law after he did his shoulder in) I had no other income-forgot to mention that we had to incur all costs for light repairs to the van as well I.e lightbulbs, wipers etc..
Everything was/is his and he controlled what I did and when I did it (just like any other full time job) which is why I now work for myself  I was fed up working hard driving a crap van using poor, often broken equipment whilst filling someone else's pockets!!

I worked 'self employed' for a local window cleaning company.
I used his van, wore his uniform, filled up with his water, and all the equipment was his-I had to provide the fuel, my own public liability insurance and then just invoiced him after every completed round (50%) .
He's got 5 blokes working for him like this and has been operating for about 5/6 years with no probs.
I'd like to know any thoughts on this??

I would say that was an employee who should be on PAYE.
He owned the equipment.  Presumably you didn't have any income (or very little income) from elsewhere.

Here are the relevant pages - from the horse's mouth so to speak

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/calcs/esi.htm

and

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/employment-status/index.htm

[Smudger]

cheers for the links Paul

i'll get the other half to go through it and see was the tax mans verdict is...


Darran

[Pope vader]

a simple way to look at it is,  can he decided when and what order he does the work,  and if he has to fix something then it is at his expense,  if can answer yes to these then he is usually classed as self employed

[andyjm1]

I worked 'self employed' for a local window cleaning company.
I used his van, wore his uniform, filled up with his water, and all the equipment was his-I had to provide the fuel, my own public liability insurance and then just invoiced him after every completed round (50%) .
He's got 5 blokes working for him like this and has been operating for about 5/6 years with no probs.
I'd like to know any thoughts on this??

Was your boss Matt by any chance?

If I'm right, I really don't know how they get away with it because everything about their set up screams that the workers are employed. Can't blame 'em for trying but I'm surprised they've got away with it for so long.

[DaveG]

Hi Darran, I do quite a bit of "subby" work for another window cleaner and I just invoice him for the jobs done. My accountant (nor his) has never said anything about it ( and he's straighter than a straight thing).
I would of thought you will be fine, because the guy has another income.

[king marko]

Yeah it was matt - you know him?? Ok bloke, but a bit slack when it comes to his staff

I worked 'self employed' for a local window cleaning company.
I used his van, wore his uniform, filled up with his water, and all the equipment was his-I had to provide the fuel, my own public liability insurance and then just invoiced him after every completed round (50%) .
He's got 5 blokes working for him like this and has been operating for about 5/6 years with no probs.
I'd like to know any thoughts on this??

Was your boss Matt by any chance?

If I'm right, I really don't know how they get away with it because everything about their set up screams that the workers are employed. Can't blame 'em for trying but I'm surprised they've got away with it for so long.

[Smudger]

H2ose - thanks mate 


Who and which Matt - spill the beans

Darran

[king marko]

Matt has a very large presence across Grantham with an even larger turnover of staff for some reason
Not one to slag folk off coz it would just sound like sour grapes - but he's got little/no people skills (some mornings would barely say hello, hand you a round sheet, then bugger off and ask you not to disturb him for the rest of the day!!)
and customer service seems to be quite low on his list of priorities ( I know of several customers who have tried in the last month to contact him and the phone just rings - with the answer machine full apparently!)
Still, I've heard he's doing well and continuing to gain work so good luck to him

[andyjm1]

I don't know him personally, I only know of his company through my parents being a customer of his in barrowby.
They are happy with the service they get and have chatted to several of the cleaners about the company set up.