[gwrightson]

I keep seeing adverts for c.c. stating 20x more powerful than any electric portable cc macine.
Please can some body tell me is this a fact or just an advertising ploy, cant see it myself, do they mean 20x more suction? 20 times more psi that means a truckmount would have to be able to run at a pressure of 20,000psi considering my porty is capable of running at 1000 psi
  geoff

[John_Flynn]

Think about it Geoff this game is a lot about selling your services!!

Would you clean a carpet at 20,000psi???

It is what one would call marketing.

[gwrightson]

John i quite understand your reply, but that does not answer my question, are their any actual fact to back this claim up
 geoff

[John Kelly]

Geoff

This country has one of the slackest trading standards and avertising regimes in the world. Pick up any newspaper, directory, magazine and there are loads of claims and counter claims across a whole range of products. The motor trade is a prime example, nobody is ever going to achieve the performance figures given out by the manufacturers which were acheived under optimum conditions.
I'm afraid if someone says their truckmount is a hundred times more powerful than your portable it is highly unlikely that anyone would be able or willing to counteract it. The only trading aspect with some clout is if someones uses someone elses registered name.

[John_Flynn]

Geoff "Doubt it " !!!

[BRSL]

I always compare power 2hp porty to 27hp T/M works for me, saves the argument, sorry pro up the T/M but hay  it's all marketing we all do it, but geoff the answer is yes sort off well kind of have a look at

http://www.hydramaster.com/inside/articles/article2.asp

well air flow yes, but 20x more powerfull no

[Ian Gourlay]

Personally I recon a truck mount will suck more tufts out of the customers carpet.

 

I only use it every know and then as my Darlek has made a comeback with Dr   Who.

[peter_collins]

Replicated with the kind permission of HydraMaster.

Portable Power v Truckmount Power !

We often get asked what the difference is between a Truckount and a portable really are and why so many Truckmount users say that they would never return to regularly using a portable type unit. The answer is quite simply POWER !!, and in the following example I shall compare what is theoretically possible here in the UK from a standard domestic ring main (electrical supply) and the SMALLEST entry level truckmount that is supplied by HydraMaster Ltd. – the Spitfire 3.2.

So that we can directly compare one with the other we shall need to work in the same power units, for which we will use kilowatts (Kw)

Portable Unit.

Here in the UK portable electric units are ‘plugged’ directly into a mains electricity outlet, each plug will have a maximum rating of 13Amps. Each socket will probably  form part of a ‘ring main’ which in turn will be connected to the consumer unit (fuse board) where it will be protected by a 30 Amp fuse or a 32 Amp circuit breaker.

In the interests of fairness I shall work to the theoretical maximum, using Ohm’s law and neglecting efficiency and other minor losses for simplicity.

Standard UK power supply is 240V or  there about !

Maximum standard plug top rating is 13 Amps.

From Ohm’s law Power=Voltage x Amperage.

=240 x  13

=3120 Watts (3.12Kw)

Total power so far used from the ring main equals 2 x 13 = 26 Amps, which leaves us an available 6 Amps.
The last 6 Amps gives us in theory another 1440W (1.44KW ) 240 x 6

This gives us a TOTAL THEORETICAL amount of electrical power available to run vac. Systems, heating systems and pumping systems of 2 x 3.12 Kw + 1.44 Kw = 7.68 Kw.

Truckmount – HydraMaster Spitfire 3.2.

To work out the equivalent amount of electrical power that Truckmount generates to heat it’s water we need to use Newton’s law of heating and cooling as follows. A Spitfire 3.2 will heat water from 20 Degrees C to 90 Degrees C at a rate of 5.6 Litres per minute (flow through a standard 04 jet at 300 p.s.i.)

Newton’s law of heating and cooling concludes the following:

Energy(J) = heat capacity of item * mass of item * temperature change.
Heat Capacity of water = 4200J per Kg

Mass = 5.6 litres = 5.6Kg

Temperature change= temperature rise = 70 degrees C

Energy(J)    =4200*5.6*70
      =1646400 J per minute.

Using a simply conversion of 360000 J per minute = 1Kw Hour.

We end up with a final figure of 27.44 Kw (this is just water heating power!!)

To get the total equivalent electrical power figure for the Spitfire 3.2 we also need to take into account the engines power. This unit uses a 16 horse power petrol engine which equates to 11.9 Kw.
So the total equivalent electrical power that a Spitfire 3.2 Truckmount generates is whopping 27.44Kw + 11.9 Kw = 39.34 Kw

Conclusion.

We have shown a clear and direct comparison between the theoretical maximum amount of power available to a portable on a standard electrical supply in the UK, and the smallest Truckmount that HydraMaster produce. I have underlined ‘theoretical maximum’ since in the real world this would be bordering on being dangerous and would most probably be unworkable and may require more than two plus to safely operate.
A more realistic figure for the amount of safe useable power available to a portable unit would be closer to 6.2Kw running from two plugs, which means that even smallest Truckmount available from HydraMaster is over six times more powerful than the most powerful twin plug portable unit.

Also consider the fact that from the available 6.2Kw to the portable unit we need to split this power three ways in an attempt to produce as much vacuum as possible, as much heat as possible and as much water pressure as possible. On the other hand the Spitfire 3.2 has 11.9Kw available just to power the vacuum system and water pressure system, its also worth noting that a portable system is virtually always operating at its maximum unlike a Spitfire 3.2 which only operate at about 80% of it capacity. i.e. the engine and blower are rated at 3600 rpm but only run at 3000 rpm, thus creating long term reliability........If you start looking at the bigger machines within the HydraMaster range then YES they are 20 times as powerfull as a portable !!

[cleaning co]

 hi i think the misleading bit on this subject for buyers of these machines and more so our punters the public  is the fact that tec wise the components they are being made from are cappable of 20x more power than a porty but  as the statment above says the way they are made it is not poss to hav this amount of power working
so the punters aint getting 20x more suck in their house than a porty ?
gary

[Mark Roberts]

You cant compare two sytems by just how much power they draw?

Power should be defined as how much power you have at the end of the wand. So yes - totally missleading and badly put across. This does not equate to x20 or even near it.

Mark

[premier floorcare]

does'nt the length of the hose also matter in this equation?

[Glynn]

ROFLMAO

[Shaun_Ashmore]

perhaps it may be a combination of say 2.75 more suction x 2.75 more pressure and flow x 2.75 more constant heat.

Shaun

[gwrightson]

well put shaun , now that does sound more realistic,
Peter i found your figures really interesting going to print off and take them to a maths genius  , see if he can put i t in plain english
 geoff

[therapist]

[color=The argument about Power being the factor which determines the best result is MEANINGLESS

Accomplished operators, using a variety of systems can achieve results which are comparsble to T/M.

This includes, portables and  bonnets.

One of the critical factors involved, is the product used and the correct use of that product, or products.

I have tried every system in existence and many products - there are too many to have tried all of these - and my personal conclusion, is that a ' good ' operator will achieve a ' good ' result with any reasonable machine, provided that he is diligent and disciplined in his approach.

The best results I ever achieved were with a CFR  400 psi machine, warm water with nothing added, prespraying and agitating with the excellent Klanz twin headed machine, then extracting with the superbly tooled CFR wand.

Physically,  heavy   to use, but the results were as good as anyone using a T / M would achieve.

BUT THAT IS JUST MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and I admit to being a bit of a perfectionist.

In a couple of days I'm going to see a demo of the Cimex
triple headed encapsulating system.........with an open mind

rob m

[BRSL]

So in short a good workman doesnt blame he's tools

Im not biased against the good old porty, Il drag one out rather than 8 lengths of hose often

but can some one explain and prove the argument against a Restorational Clean from a T/M compaired to a Maintanace Clean from a Porty, only quoting on peoples advertising. :

[therapist]

Can't understand why anyone would advertise a maintenance clean when using w/e, unless, of course, they lack something!

Incidentally.

Anyone whose used powerfull extraction machinery will know that it's simply not possible to utilise the high power 90% of the time, as, carpets will be pulled away from the smoothedge, or metal strips.

rob m

[BRSL]

Thats one of the best things with the glide no carpet lifting !!!!!!!!! 

But I think you got the wrong end of the stick, I know nobody out there advertises there cleaning with there porty as maintenace cleaning that would be stupid, but a lot of T/M users claim their equipment acheives a resterational clean and that portys dont

Just wandering like Geoff, if theres any evidence out there to prove this statement

James

[therapist]

You did seem to be suggesting that someone was advertising 'maintenance' cleaning by using a portable.

As I've mentioned before, in my personal experience, which is considerable, the best result I've personally achieved, have been through the use of a CFR machine, with 400psi, but surprisingly, fairly low vacuum power.

The design of the tools allows the operator to dwell on areas of heavy soiling without soaking, this results in, I believe the finest restoration clean possible, comparable with, or superior to any other wet extraction system.

Only my opinion, of course, but based on experience and experimentation.

However!


An accomplished operator, with another system and possibly newer technology, may well be capable of similar results.

What c/c's should do, if seeking to be 'among the best' is to attend live demo's of all systems to allow an informed decision to be arrived at.

If you can't find such demo's, contact suppliers. They want to impress you and you will learn a lot in the process.

I should perhaps add, that my c/c days are mainly in the past and only carry out a low volume of work, due to a knackered body and other comittments.

Don't expect miracles from machinery, simply because it's got massive power, or high heat, or whatever.

It's still the person at the end of the wand who determines the result and this takes, discipline, dedication and a genuine desire to deliver a high standard of service.

Happy days

r m

[Mark Lurker]

R M,

Best post of the year