[dustdees]

Hi all,

Hope you are having a good week.
I have started to put together a client blacklist(non payers, bad attitude to cleaners etc)

Has anyone else done this and passed the information on to your local contacts?

Cheers
Den

[DP]

Think its a great idea, I had thought about it on a national basis, i.e. via a website.

However the website idea is loaded with problems as the litigation would be outrageous. The only way it could be done publicly is on a point basis as Experian do with payment frequency.

But figured at the end of the day all we would be really telling possible competitors by complaining is who needs new cleaners, hardly the effect I would be aiming for. 

[dustdees]

DP,

I wasn't thinking nationally.
Anyway would anyone want to take client on who causes so many problems?
I know I wouldn't!

[martin19842]

hi there,

data protection needs to be considered in any situation.

regards

martin

[BSF]

Hi all,

Hope you are having a good week.
I have started to put together a client blacklist(non payers, bad attitude to cleaners etc)

Has anyone else done this and passed the information on to your local contacts?

Cheers
Den

Buy that man a drink! (martin)

Yes the data protection act, what you are suggesting would be against the law…. dustees, 

Equifax, experian, already provide this service; don’t think they cover the bad attitude to cleaners side of it though.

A major part of any business is getting your clients to pay on time, some clients do pay late, that’s life, clients do moan from time to time, I don’t think this warrants them being on your blacklist.

You’re providing a service, if they don’t pay, you have to go through (yours or the legal)   system to get your money, if the court decides to place judgement in your favour the details are recorded and passed on to these agencies.

Your clients aren’t entering into a credit agreement with you, even if they did, you have to abide by the law and send default notices etc, you can’t tell every tom dick and harry about it.


Regards

Paul

[*Chris Browne]

Hi all,

Hope you are having a good week.
I have started to put together a client blacklist(non payers, bad attitude to cleaners etc)

Has anyone else done this and passed the information on to your local contacts?

Cheers
Den

we have all felt like that at times...time heals........


chris

[DP]

To record, hold and store, information is perfectly legal, and registering yourself in respect of data protection is simply a case of paying a very small fee, you don’t even need to qualify and  is only required in certain situations and not in all cases as many believe so hardly relevant.

Its what you do with that information which is the key and to use it to the detriment of any company or individual could fast become a litigation issue far outweighing the likes of any petty data protection penalties.

Dustdees
I realise you wasn’t talking nationally, that was just my thoughts. You might be surprised how many would believe that it was just mishandled or something, and that they could handle it better, I’ve had this in the past, where I have told persons in confidence that I was in dispute, only to find that they have now become the replacement supplier a few months down the line, stating that they don’t have any problems, silence is golden as they say.

Give people valuable information and they will always use it to their own benefit, its human nature.

[dustdees]

Hi All,

You all seem to have the wrong end of the stick with this post.

The point I was trying to get across nwas, do any of you hold a personal blacklist of customers(I'm not so thick as not to know the rules about Data Protection and stuff  ).

Let's be honest with ourselves most of us get to know other local people who are in the trade, and some of you will be sub contracting for them.  On that basis, would you tell them of bad customers you have had and advise them not to touch them?

That's all I wanted to know



Denise   xxxx

[DP]

Clearly that explains it then. I (for one) must have completely misunderstood

Ummm  : : :............. NO! (but whatever you do please dont ask why not)

[helpinghands]

i think all cleaning companies should get together and have a list of people so that we can stand together over people who think that we are the low of the low lets start worjing together

[garyj]

Yes, especially around here AND staff too!!

Have you had your rear light fixed yet?

[DP]

Maybe this is a regional thing or something, because I haven’t met anyone who thinks we are the low of the low.

I just treat all my clients and staff with equal amounts of contempt and life is bliss! 

[*Chris Browne]

hi dustees ,yes we have an unofical list between a couple of companies.

chris

[alugleem]

take them to court fist then tell everyone the outcome in the press

[andrew chrysler]

As far as I understand things:

The Data Protection Act applies to information that can be used to "identify an individual"

A domestic address, or the name of a Limited Company (but not the name of a sole trader) does not identify an individual because

1) more than 1 person may live in a house
2) a limited company must have min 2 shareholders

Therefore........

A blacklist of domestic addresses without names or a blacklist of limited companies falls outside the Data Protection Act.

Obviously anyone getting an enquiry from a domestic address could ask "have you just moved in?" to save losing jobs due to previous householder being blacklisted.

The only remedy a disgruntled ex customer could try is to sue for libel......... if you have only reported facts then there is no libel case.....

So: a blacklist with

1) addresses & Companies only
2) amount unpaid
3) whether the client disputes the debt

should be perfectly ok.

Hope this helps,

Andrew.

[carloso]

the simple thing to do is to contact the data protection people,
 but as i understand things boiled down to its simplest
1 any info you hold can be viewed by the person / organisation its about

2 you have a duty if care re this information, so any info you have about anyone, be it customer or staff has to be protected against loss/ theft/ misuse, etc

3 informality does not come into anything,  to hold information you have to register and have an allocated oerson as a data registrar, your accountant might agree to be nominated as such.

4  again  informality does not come into anything and counts for squat, a list is a list and the law is the law, any form of list that was circulated from one company to another is then out of control of the originator and can then be re circulated with god knows what else added.

finally remember that anything you write store about anyone can be seen by them in the future, so even if you encypt it on your pc and they somehow here about it they could demand that they see the un encrypted version, so whatever you decide to put, be deadly accurate and be able to prove it

cheers
   

[prestige cleaners]

Im willing to divulge bad customers in swansea ive got 3 non payers!,

[glenda hollis]

Dustees, what on earth would you gain from this if you found yourself in a position that you were sending out 'blacklists' to other companies and then found that no one sent you a thing in return? Bad customer attitude is down to the cleaners and people on site, it is horses for courses. The same people may not always be on site at the same time as the cleaners turn up, for example. As 'blacklists' go, remember that credit reference agencies do not have blacklists, that is a complete myth. They have the facility to make avaliable to potential lenders the credit history of the person applying for credit. The lenders then decide for themselves whether or not they are going to lend. It is about each business making their own considered and unbiased judgement.

[steve doyle]

I think its a great idea!

But i think its benefit is as a way of anger management, an exercise to make you feel better! I think once its done, just hang it on the wall in your office and buy some darts!(if only you had some pictures!!!).

On the issue of sharing info, i think it should be done on an idividual basis depending on seriousness, bad payers wouldent be included. sexual harrasment/ threatening behaviour etc would be. In that instance i would just make a few phone calls and ask if they were interested in knowing the details of a customer who had "alledgedly" done "whatever it was" to one of my staff or myself. It would have to be a pretty serious incident  where i felt i was protecting someone rather than just giving usefull information.

I dont think sharing general info is going to be of help to you unless the other members of your business group are as comitted as you. What may happen is you take all the hits, warn the others and they never warn you of any. results are your competitors get richer and you effectively get poorer.
I would personally let your competitors struggle on but take a stronger line with your customers,

bad payers. write 2 generic "payment due" letters (keep on computer) which you can input individual debt details into, post first one, 7 days later post the other with the threat of small claims in it, 7 days later issue  small claims against them.

if its satisfaction you want, that should do it, you will be praying some dont pay up in time so you can issue small claims!

steve

[Londoner]

Bad customers are just a fact of life. Everyone has them but I don't think a blacklist would prevent you picking up the few that we all inevetably get.

I tend to think of them as mad, bad or moody. The mad and the moody you can do little about. The bad ie crooks who are just out to rip you off are the ones I would like to target but is it worth it? I know revenge is sweet but at what cost to you?

I am a window cleaner so my losses are small when it happens. The last one was about a month ago. A new customer phoned after a leaflet drop. I went round and quoted £15 which was accepted. Could I do them before the weekend as she had visitors coming? Yes I could.

Having done the windows, and the frames, and the sills I knocked for my money. "I'm not paying you - I'm not satisfied". Now when I do windows they are good, I've been in this game long enough to know what I'm doing.
She wouldn't discuss it and eventually shut the door. Then her husband came from round the side of the house and said "You won't budge her, she's made up her mind" and then skuttled back.

To me it was a set up from start to finish and I seethed for about a week. But what could I do? If I had persisted I'm sure they would have called the police. Would I have got my money? No.

Now compare this to what happened to a friend of mine some years back. He cleaned carpets and upholstery. One day he gets a phone call could he do all the carpets and three piece suite in a large flat in Hendon ( North London).
On arrival a woman let him in and he spent the whole day doing the flat. When he had finished he gave the woman the bill. "Oh no, I'm just the tenant and I moved in yesterday. The landlord phoned to say you were coming".
She gave him details of the letting agency. They , of course knew nothing about it, but the look that passed between the two staff members when he told them the story spoke volumes. This was not the first time.
The landlord was a foreign business man who lived abroad but they would try and contact him. Nothing ever came of it and he never got his money. It was a con from beginning to end.

But realistically, in both stories what could we have done to prevent it? A blacklist would weed out a few nutcases perhaps but not the crooks.