[Steve.D]

Hi

Me and the missus have been window cleaning since July 2005. How many of you have had customers cancel because they cannot afford it because think the price is too expensive? We've had a couple of customers do this recently and I couldn't help thinking that maybe we are over pricing, particularly as we have quoted quite a few jobs never to hear again. We base our quotes on one person earning £15 per hour. I wouldn't say we were slow and we do a good job including upvc frames, cills and doors. Am I being paranoid, should I worry, should I drop the price?

Thanks


Steve

[mfwindowcleaner]

offer them a cheaper price but dont do upvc door or sills ....... charge them say 10 instead of 15 and you will find you can do it in half the time.......
as a rule i dont do upvc or frames ..takes friggin ages

[rosskesava]

Hi Steve

We've been going for 5 years nearly and it still happens to us also.

One thing to never do though - that is to put prices down. We done that and within a few months all our new work was hard going for little return and we still had the same problem.

Cheers

[windows_chepstow]

Steve, you're being paranoid.

And many will tell you here that £15 an hour is too cheap also, but it's not bad since you've only started four months ago.  Expect to double it in two years; honest; if you can stick the grind.

Also, if you've only been going for four months, you will be slow.  Just give yourself a year and see how fast your going then.

Also, many window cleaners (traditonal) either don't bother doing frames, or if requested, charge more for them.  I do think cleaning doors, glass or UPVC is a nice touch though.

If you're working with ladders, which I guess you are; do a search on this site for 'dog earing'.  It's a quick modification of your squeegie which does help.

Also, change your rubber regularly.  I remember when I first started I had a nightmare, because I didn't know I had to change it; honest.

Also, search for Rojak Ladder Stopper and get your Missis to foot your ladder on anything that you suspect is 'dodgy'.

Don't drop your price either, Steve.  Most new window cleaners, me included, make a rod for our own back by underpricing.

In the end you drop your underpriced customers, who may have been willing to pay for a good service in the first place.

Read as many back posts as you can stomache too.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.  

  

[Michael Ross]

Steve,

Thanks for asking.

Rule # 1: NEVER, ever ever ever, drop your price for the quoted job.

Rule # 2: The only reason you should drop your price is if you do less work.

Realise this... those who complain about price will NOT be good long-term customers anyway. Better you lose them now.

In my experience people cancel a service because something in their life has changed - husband/wife lost a job, they really only wanted a once-off cause friends/family were visiting, they got the property tax bill ("rates" in Australia, I think this is Poll Tax in the UK), just spent up big on the credit card and the statement has arrived and they are short of money, etc.

One client was HAPPY to get her place done every month for $60 a pop - in and out (she gave us a key). And after five months she was home one day when we arrived. She had to go out for a bit and then got home again just as we were finishing. So she knew how long we took. And then she complained and it went like this...

Her "I don't feel comfortable paying $30 an hour".
Me "You aren't paying $30 an hour you're paying to get the job done no matter how long it takes.
Her "I know that. But in my head I think I am paying $30 an hour."
Me "Was the job done to your satisfaction?"
Her "Yes"
Me "So you're happy with the quality of the work?"
Her "Yes. But I don't feel right paying $30 an hour. Even if you took longer to do it and the quality was still the same, that would be alright."
Me "What do you feel comfortable paying?"
Her "I feel ok with $20 an hour."
Me "So if it was $20 an hour and I went real slow so it took 3 hours and it was still $60 in the end, you'd be happy with that?"
Her "Yes."
Me "I think you'd better find someone else."

So she was happy as long as she didn't know how long it took. Once she knew, she worked it out in her head at an hourly rate, and probably realised it was more than she made at her job, which she didn't like.

Or how about the people who call and say, "I'm currently paying $12 an hour can you beat that?"

The minimum wage in this state by law is $12.11 an hour. And that's for a job. So this woman wanted an independent business owner to do her place for less than minimum wage. And what would happen to the person she has now at $12 an hour? They'd be tossed aside, just like you would be as soon as she found someone cheaper than you.

Considering most of my clients pay me $45 - $60 an hour, and most other window cleaners get about $30 - $35 an hour, you can see how way off a "can you beat $12 an hour" comment really is.

How about the guy with a newish BMW and Rangie in his garage. Tells me he isn't happy with his current window cleaner and wants a price for in and out. I count 70 panes of glass (about 1 metre square each) around his swimming pool alone - most with bird poop on them. And a tad over 240 all up. And I'm not talking French windows here where one window could have ten or so panes of glass. I'm talking big windows like a glass sliding door with one slider and one fixed is two panes of glass, and the bottom of the house has loads of these. So he has 240 panes of glass - 70 around his pool and the rest in the house (large two storey house).

I asked what the others charged him. He didn't remember. How long did they take? He didn't remember  - BUT - he was ONLY willing to pay $25 an hour AND reckoned it would only take 5 hours all up!

I said, "So you're telling me that you’re only willing to pay $125 to get all these windows cleaned in AND out including around the pool. And you're not interested in a quote from me but to see if I will do it for $125?"

He was as direct with me and said, "Yes, that's it."

I told him even if he doubled his offer to $250 my price would still be higher. And that instead of getting people out to give him a quote he should tell them right off the bat he is only willing to pay $125 to get all his glass done.

I've quoted $20 to do in/out of a two bed bungalow which would have been done in like 20 minutes, and was told "I can get it done cheaper" to which I reply, "then get it done cheaper" and leave. Though, one guy tried that and when I told him to go with his cheaper price and went to leave, the cheaper price disappeared and my price was accepted.

You have GOT to stick to your price no matter what people say or what others are charging. In fact, I don't fully know what others are charging - I don't make it my business to know and I don't care, I charge what *I* am comfortable with. They volunteered that information to me when we've met and chatted. And other clients tell me what previous window cleaners charged.

My point is, don't sweat it and don't drop your prices. Price shoppers are NOT good long term loyal customers. And remember, being asked to lower your price is being asked to discount your effort - something I will not do.

My approach/attitude has always been "here's my price, take it or leave it". I would rather lose a client than drop my price.

Michael Ross

[poles apart]

Hi Michael
I like your website. I'm particularly impressed with your rain guarantee. Thinking of doing the same here only it will be a sun guarantee,'if the sun comes out within seven days of me cleaning your windows I'll come back and have a beer on your patio' What do you think?
Rod

[DASERVICES]

 Hi Mike,

 Out of interest what product do you use to get the limescale off the windows,
 and how do you go about using it.

  Cheers

  Doug

[Ben Walker]

Hi Michael
I'm particularly impressed with your rain guarantee. Thinking of doing the same here only it will be a sun guarantee,'if the sun comes out within seven days of me cleaning your windows I'll come back and have a beer on your patio' What do you think?
Rod

hah! rain guarentee!! what!

good one Rod

to quote the late Bill Hicks
"let me get this straight... you brits sent your crims to an island paradise of their own. bhaaaa! ...i'm a criminal, no i'm a criminal, no i'm a criminal..."

Micheal, fancy doing job swap for a year. i'm in glasgow, and here you get rosey cheek women! 

ben-chan

[rosskesava]

Hi Michael

Great posting.

Cheers

[Michael Ross]

Hi Mike,

 Out of interest what product do you use to get the limescale off the windows, and how do you go about using it.

  Cheers

  Doug

Doug,

Thanks for asking about the limescale.

In this particular case, the problem is that bad it has even dripped on me while cleaning the glass. And because it is so bad, I'm doing the glass monthly at the least, sometimes weekly (the guy paid $3,000,000 for the unit so he can afford it).

So what I have been using is a product called "Evergreen Total Washroom" (see below) and it's sold by Elite Chemicals (http://www.elitechemicals.com.au) down here in Australia

"Evergreen Total Washroom Maintenance Cleaner

Designed to cut through body fat and scum build-up on shower floors and walls, cleans toilets, urinals, baths, sinks, tiles and hard surfaces."

I dilute it in a spray bottle about 1:5 to 1:10 ish. Then I spray it on the area that needs treating and gently scour it off with one of those kitchen scourers with the green scourer on one side and the sponge on the other. I know you shouldn't use plastic scourers on glass, but I find it works well and I keep the pressure light. (Depending on the wind I'll also spray it onto the scourer itself and then scour the effected area.)

I had used a scraper (the Unger brand that comes in the plastic box with ten or so spare blades). But it was tough going doing it that way so I switched to the sprayed on chemical.

I think, if the glass would be left for 6 months or so and then done, the glass would have etchings in it that couldn't be removed. There is already one pane that when you look at the right angle you can see where it is leaving a mark on the glass that can't be got rid of. But when you look through the glass like most people do, and not at the glass like window cleaners do, you don't notice it.

I've been doing that glass since the building was built so I've been able to stay on top of it.

But when sprayed on shower recessess that have begun to get that "fog", it will remove all usual scum stuff, but the visible water stains are there to stay - even when used undiluted.

Another thing about those stains that sometimes happens, it can depend on what the water is going through first. Is there an insect screen with aluminium and is the water taking parts of the anodised aluminium onto the glass? What chemical is the govt putting in the water and what is that doing to the glass?

I don't use any fancy window cleaning solution in my bucket, just biodegradable dishwashing liquid from the supermarket.

Possibly, and this just occured to me, true limescale as I deal with in the photo, is lime in rainwater. Where as other "stains" are usually from tap water. So I'd say there is something else in the tap water doing damage as well.

I have heard such stains can be got rid of by applying some limescale remover and scouring with No 1 size steel wool. I've not tried it though.

Michael Ross

[Michael Ross]

Hi Michael
I like your website. I'm particularly impressed with your rain guarantee. Thinking of doing the same here only it will be a sun guarantee,'if the sun comes out within seven days of me cleaning your windows I'll come back and have a beer on your patio' What do you think?
Rod

Rod,

Funny thing with the rain guarantee is, no-one has ever used it.

We are on water restrictions in my city due to a severe lack of rain, so it doesn't rain much. But just yesterday I'm doing a house and all inside is done and the top floor of outside and I'm half way through doing the bottom outside and it starts raining on me. Raining on windows I've just cleaned and on windows I am cleaning. It stopped after half hour, then during the night it pelted down. And yet, no call back.

Which makes sense because it's not the rain that makes the glass dirty. And that's why no-one calls on the guarantee. Clean rain on clean glass results in glass that's still clean. Maybe if I was in a high pullted area things would be different.

Then again, as we all know, it isn't Joe Sixpack who gets his windows done regular. So the upper middle and upper classes might not like getting a person back to reclean something that was already cleaned. Different if the job was bodgied, but not when done properly.

If you want to test it, test it. Implement a Rain Guarantee and see how it goes. You'll quickly discover whether people will take advantage of you or not.

Ben-cha... I'd LOVE to come to Scotland, seriously. If I was to live in the UK I'd pick the Borders area or the Scottish Highlands, and my wife Cornwall or the Highlands. And my wife might not like me meeting too many rosey cheeked girls 

Ross... thanks.

Michael Ross

[AuRavelling79]

Ben-cha... I'd LOVE to come to Scotland, seriously. If I was to live in the UK I'd pick the Borders area or the Scottish Highlands, and my wife Cornwall or the Highlands.

Michael Ross

Hello Michael Ross.

Borders      - Very cold and wet
Highlands  - Even colder and wetter
Cornwall    - Mild and wet

Beautiful countryside in all of them plus good mountains in the Highlands!

[Ben Walker]

i wonder if that has ever happened actually... job swap for a year/ half a year!
i mean there's bound to be complications but w/c could be one of those jobs that offers that possibilty.

a change is better than a rest so job swap abroad could be a belter.   
(though could be disaster!)

anyone heard of it?

ben-chan

[Moderator David@stives]

Cornwall warm and wet inland
     nice and warm and just right at the coast ,just a bit windy at times


Dave

[rosskesava]

Brighton on the South Coast.

Warmest ave temperature in the uk in winter but a often very windy and frequently wet. Great in summer though.

It very rarely ever snows here. 

Forget those funny sounding West Country people.

[craig jwc]

I cana read I cana write but that don't really matter coz I comz from the WEST COUNTRY and I can drive a tractor
OHH AHH OHH AHH

Nothing wrong with us West Country folk

[DASERVICES]

  Mike,

  Cheers for the info, I've loads of customers asking if I can get rid of this.

  Will try.

  Thanks again.

   Doug