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garyj

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2005, 02:42:28 pm »
  Funnily enough I was going to write exactly the same as Fox earlier aping the 'there's good and bad in everyone' line from Ebony & Ivory by McCartney and Jackson.
I have been expecting from my first post some idiot to accuse me of racism. This is certainly not the case here, we have many foreign nationals working for us including Zimbabwe and The Philippines with no trouble whatsoever, some of them have been with us years. We have employed Eastern Europeans for about a year. The first 2 were from Bosnia and this couple lasted 3 days with the inevitable threats from these people when it goes wrong for them. Of course I didn’t judge all people on these two but continued to employ E.E labour and have in the past employed Hungarians, Slovakians, Czechs & loads of Polish. What I can and will say though is, that there is no way I would go to another country and behave in the way that the majority of these people do, they do have to learn that this is OUR country and we have OUR ways and we have OUR principles and we have OUR way of going about our daily lives and business workings. They talk to each other in their own language which I find very rude, especially the Polish who all seem to have excellent English skills anyway, they cause trouble with the local staff by spreading rumours & lies and hate any form of authority as well as constantly falling out amongst themselves. I’ve never come across so many people who are willing to stand and row with you in my life, they always seem to know best and have a hard time backing down, then jeez, can they sulk, bear a grudge and cause an atmosphere. I can’t stand the way they smile sweetly to your face and then can’t wait to run off and criticise you and then come back for a confrontation.
They are always complaining they have no money!!! That’s because they are sending it home!! That’s not my fault OR my problem, but they make it everyone’s business by letting them know how miserable they are and causing yet more friction. Most will admit that they hate this country and don't want to be here but they have no choice as there aren't any jobs back home and the money here is so good. Some of my workers who earn £6.00 per hour are used to getting just 50p ph in there own country and still they want more.
As I said, this is just my experience and my opinion, and I really hope that in 6-12 months time this thread isn’t resurrected by CIU members saying “its all gone horribly wrong with my EE employees”.

I’ve ‘been there, done that’ and I ain’t going back!!!

Still waiting for the reply to my question asking how a self employed cleaner in Central London can offer a self-employed cleaner service for £5.05p per hour legally.

CMS

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2005, 04:23:43 pm »

What I will say is that the Polish web site looks more like they are selling sex than cleaners!

Fox



Maybe they are  :D :D :D

dustdees

  • Posts: 334
Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2005, 07:18:58 am »
Garyj,

Nice post dear!!

Just to lift your disappointment, Racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D :P :-* :-*

P.s

I sent your e-mail on to my cousin,Cherubs and warned her!!



CMS

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2005, 07:53:26 am »
Now, that's a bit strong Dustdees!

Gary has just spent some time explaining his thoughts but clearly you have failed to understand what he was trying to say.

Fortunately, I can speak from a lot of experience here. Not from employing Poles, I hasten to add but by employing foreign nationals in general.

Although I now live and work in Shropshire much of my career with one of the 'big' cleaning companies has been in the South East of England.

As 'Regional Manager' for the South East I had responsibility for 700 staff and 80% of these were 'non-english'.

I am certainly NOT a racist - I promoted a lovely Nigerian guy from 'cleaner' up to Contracts Manager in a very short space of time based upon his abilities. Both of our office administrators were African Nationals and I had a Site Manager at one of the big London Colleges who was Nigerian.

SOME of them were extremely hard working, willing to learn and would do anything asked of them. Others however were not so willing - and I DID notice that different nationalities had different traits. For instance the Somalians always refused to work alone. If you gave them an area to clean you would go back 10 minutes later to find two of them working together, wherever they liked.

I agree with Gary though. If a foreign national wants to come and work here they should abide by our rules and regulations; those of our country and the company they work for.

If I set a standard for my staff to achieve whether they are a cleaner or a Contracts Manager, they should strive to achieve that standard with efficiency and courtesy to their employer AND to the Client - NO MATTER WHAT COLOUR OR CREED THEY ARE!

I'd just like to finish this post by telling you of an amusing incident that happened at 'Ford' in Dagenham many years ago.

Due to the level of applicants from recent African imigrants we had to be particularly careful about ID, permits to work etc.

I asked a guy to bring some ID to his interview and he bought a letter from the Home Office.

This letter stated that while his application for political asylum was being considered he was not allowed to work!

That - if nothing else displays a clear lack of understanding of what employment in this country is all about.

dustdees

  • Posts: 334
Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2005, 08:23:21 am »
Hi CMS,

Shame you had to write such a long post,all that especially when the post wasn't meant for you.Pity you didn't read it properly ;D ;D

There is a personal joke between garyj and myself which only he can understand.So there is nobody is seriously being called a racist etc etc....


To be quite honest there are so few fantastic cleaners out there then I would be happy to take on someone who speaks giberish, as long as they are legally over here!!!,  but can do a cracking job!!

So I clearly have not failed to understand what he is trying to say, in fact I have had a personal e-mail form him to explaining what happened to him when he took on polish staff.(Maybe you should ask him to send it on to you!!!)

I am not accusing you or being a racist either, it's not in nature.

I have worked with many foreign people in the past and in fact one of them now is one of my closest friends and she works really hard.

Again it comes down to , I don;t care what coluor they are as long as they complete a high quality job andare an invaluable asset to my business.

NO BEATTY AROUND THE BUSH BUT YOU HAVE NOT READ THE POST PROPERLY, ENGAGE BRAIN THEN USE THE FINGERS ON YOUR COMPUTER KEYBOARD!!!!




CMS

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2005, 09:20:13 am »
Dustdees,

Yes, I did read the post properly and I did engage brain before using the keyboard.

The problem is with forums such as this is that most people are only privvy to WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRITTEN ON THE THREAD.

If you have a private joke going on with Gary (by email) then maybe it should've stayed private.

I, like most people can only read what's here. I haven't yet mastered the ability to read minds and I probably never shall!

garyj

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2005, 02:15:10 pm »
  Funnily enough I was going to write exactly the same as Fox earlier aping the 'there's good and bad in everyone' line from Ebony & Ivory by McCartney and Jackson.
I have been expecting from my first post some idiot to accuse me of racism. 
Garyj,

Nice post dear!!

Just to lift your disappointment, Racist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 ;) ;) ;) ;D ;D :P :-* :-*

Don't have to be a mind reader, just a little more observant  ::) :P

LRAZEC

  • Posts: 22
Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2005, 03:19:26 pm »
Hi all
 I've been a bit busy lately but I see this one is still a hot subject.
I've read all the notes and I'm glad to see that the tone changed a bit - from against any foreign workers to individuals.
 I'm an east european myself. I've been here for a while and after I worked my back for cleaning companies I managed to understand and start my own cleaning business (thank you all for your help).  I can say that is not just about cleaners creating problems but about the cleaning companies using east europeans and other foreigners for their own profit. I've seen companies employing foreigners and paying as little as £4.10/hour, I know a cleaner that after has not been paid for a month (with no papers) has been sent back to his country without being paid.
 As far as I can see is not the case here but it is happening. As some other people have allready said it comes down to you about how you select your staff and how you treat them.

garyj

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2005, 05:16:13 pm »
ALL workers know what the minimum wage is ( especially the E.E's), and they would have a very strong case if they complained. No legitimate cleaning company would take the risk of paying below minimum wage and would not even contemplate a court case. I would suggest the Polish working for £4.10 per hour are likely to working for other Pol's charging there clients just £5.10 per hour. EVERY Eastern European I've met knows more about employment law than I do!!

The cleaner who worked without papers, should not have been paid, if the cleaning contactor had of paid him they would have faced a minimum £2,000 fine. I see they have now gone back to their own country, good, they should not have been here working in the first place and make THEMSELVES prime candidates to the abuses of low pay you mention.
 
I find your argument very weak.
Gary

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2005, 11:43:43 pm »
garyj / Gary
Your problem is that you just hate foreign people

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2005, 10:05:32 pm »
So I take it then AJ Cleaning that you think its ok to employ illegal workers, because otherwise that remark to Gary was really dumb.
Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2005, 10:57:40 am »
So I take it then AJ Cleaning that you think its ok to employ illegal workers, because otherwise that remark to Gary was really dumb.

DP,

From 01/05/2004 Eastern Europeans workers are eligible to work in the UK.

Business Link have a guide http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1074603900 to Ensuring your workers are eligible to work in the UK, focusing on employees from the European Economic Area, which includes Poland.

For advise on employing Polish workers, try contacting the Immigration & Nationality Directorate on 0845 010 6677. They have a free leaflet available explaining the process. Or click here http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/0/preventing_illegal.html or here http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/0/preventing_illegal.Maincontent.0014.file.tmp/full_guidance.pdf

For information on the Worker Registration Scheme, which Polish and other Eastern Europeans nationals should register with, see information for employers http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/en/homepage/schemes_and_programmes/worker_registration/information_for_employers.html, or information for employees http://www.workingintheuk.gov.uk/working_in_the_uk/en/homepage/schemes_and_programmes/worker_registration/information_for_employers.html.

Please note that I did not call anybody dumb. 

In relation to garyj / Gary comments about Polish workers, I would say that nobody is perfect.

garyj

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2005, 12:29:12 am »
Arturas,

I DO NOT hate foreign people and your remark is rude, offensive and shows a complete lack of understanding.

Thank you for rekindling this subject, it had dropped down the rankings, but thanks to you its live again. ;D

Gary

Re: Nice team of cleaners from Poland-
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2005, 06:52:14 pm »
Arturas,

... your remark is rude, offensive and shows a complete lack of understanding...

Gary

Gary,
The only think I do not understand is why you feel being offended, when it for Polish people to feel that way after reading your messages, and I am one of them.

By the way, I was Arturas about 7 years ago, now I am Arthur.