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William S.

  • Posts: 6
DFC 210 and 105
« on: September 17, 2011, 02:52:20 am »
Hi everyone, first time posting but have read here allot! I am from Canada and follow all the boards in the US, but I really like the UK approach to things (Maybe because I spent 9 years in Ireland when I was a kid). I also clean lots of wool as Certifed Woolsafe Operator. Anyways, I wanted to pass on the results from some extensive testing I have being doing with microsplitters and DFC 210 and 105.

Here the 'classic' microsplitter is Procyon. Works well, however I always felt it lack a certain punch on heavy soiled carpets.  So I strayed to Masterblend Soapfree which is very similar to Procyon but with Sodium Percarbonate. It worked much better, even on the heavy soiled carpets. But you can't use in on wool.  :(

I tried DFC 105 before and was never impressed even thought I wanted to like it as I clean allot of broadloom wool. But since it was created in Canada, I talked to the original inventor and he told me why I was not getting the results.

The DFC 210 is not the same at the 105, they are similar chemistry but there are some important differences. The synergy between the two products is where the magic happens. I recently had a perfect job to test the product. A huge house of pure white nylon that I have cleaned every year for four years. Lot's of little kid stains (spills, markers, paint etc.) and also a sick dog that had made a mess throughout the house (really bad). Normally I would us the Soapfree with an extra dose of booster (sodium percarbonate) but this time I just mixed one scoop (1.5 oz or 43 grams) of DFC 210 with hot water in an electric sprayer. I also added one gallon (one litre) of DFC 105 to my TM stock tank filled to 5 gallons (23 liters) and metered at 3 to 4 gpm. About 1:320.

I was prepared to re-spray the home again with my old standard prespray as I was very dubious the DFC could do the job. This was a nasty carpet!  :-\

I was shocked to find that the whole house, 2500 sq/ft of heavy soiled, pet stained carpet came out beautiful and with no extra work. No agitation. I use a high flow wand (10 flow at 500 psi) and high heat (220F at the wand). Even the draught marks, food and drink spills and oily marks from door hinges came out with no special attention.  :o ;D

I realized I had become dependant on oxidizer boosters when not really needed.

The combination of DFC 210 followed by DFC 105 as a rinse is the key to using these products effectively. I have used the combination exclusively (upholstery as well) for the last month and continue to be amazed. I do not how much role the heat plays, but I am using NO agitation. The results on wool are also so much better than just using the DFC 105 as pre-spray. The DFC 210 is safe for wool at the recommended dilution when rinsed with DFC 105 but Chemspec only wanted to pay for one product to be certified. I have a PH meter and double check my concentration from time to time.

I also have played with DFC Heavy Duty Cleaner which you can use as a pre-spray for carpet at 2 oz per gallon. Incredibly cheap to use considering the cost per gallon. It has a PH of 10.5. Great results on trashed carpets, commercial and olefin berbers and polyesters. Again, according to the inventor, it has a special synergy with a DFC 105 rinse. Chemspec claims it is safe on 5th generation stain guard carpets even though is slighter higher then 10 PH.

I know some of you have tried these products separately like I have in the past and were not impressed. But I urge you to try them together and I think you will be very pleased. The cost saving of using these products are huge and they contain no vocs and are made with food grade ingredients. As the product gets diluted with water it turns into sodium bicarbonate and then C02.

Let me know your experience. BTW, Jondon, a large supplier here private labels all three DFC products under the name Planet Gaurd and they are really popular.

Interestingly, Chemspec told me that the rinse if not stable at high heat, but the inventor (no longer with chempsec) disagrees. I also think they work great with heat and I know a guy who uses these product exclusively with his Aerotech at 250-260F. If you test these product please indicate what temperature you are using and if you use any agitation. Again, I used no agitation but lot's of heat and high flow with Joe Bristors shear kit set at high sheer at 500 psi.

robert meldrum

  • Posts: 1984
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 07:58:20 am »
Interesting results...............only problem for most would be achieving such a high temperature at the wand and I think most would be concerned about using such a high temperature on synthetics, but well done with your results, it's always worth experimenting in this business.

Not aware of anyone using the sheer kit over here but the logic seems good.  500psi seems pretty high for domestic work, but from what you say this job needed to be approached like a restaurant or pub carpet.


elliott cleaning

  • Posts: 778
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2011, 02:23:40 pm »
Been using Joe's adjustable shear kit on one of my wands for the last couple of months. Well worth having.  Makes the wand instantly adaptable to carpet type & soil conditions.
Only ever used the 210 & 105 seperately and was also unimpressed.  Certainly will give give it a combined try

William S.

  • Posts: 6
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2011, 03:05:47 pm »
With high sheer 500 psi is not as much as it sounds.  I think the highest sheer is 30 degrees so it is flowing through the fibers but not penetratrating the backing.

I have been keeping the sheer angle the same and just adjust the pressure.

I did not mention, I use a glided wand as well.


Peter Sweeney

  • Posts: 534
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2011, 06:07:29 pm »
Procyon is the original product pureclean was copied from. Procyon is meant to be better but I still have'nt found a splitter on sale here thats anywhere near as good as Pureclean.

Pete


Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 11:07:10 am »
We send put a dozen bottles of DFC Heavy Duty Degreaser to customers to trial.

No bad reports as of yet.

William S.

  • Posts: 6
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 03:22:31 am »
We send put a dozen bottles of DFC Heavy Duty Degreaser to customers to trial.

No bad reports as of yet.

Could you ask some of them to reply here with their results. I really want to continue testing the DFC 210 with the DFC Heavy Duty on a variety of carpets and conditions with the goal of discerning the strengths of one over the other. All will be followed with the DFC 105 as a rinse. I love to hear some other findings.

Thanks!

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 09:14:20 am »
A couple of them post on here. Hopefully they will pick this up and share the results.

Tom Bennett

  • Posts: 66
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 09:31:52 am »
William,
Can I ask why you use an electric sprayer as opposed to the conventional sprayer on your truckmount, I would have thought it takes far longer, although not as much solution is put down.
Regards.
Tom.

William S.

  • Posts: 6
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2011, 03:14:41 pm »
Hi Tom, I used to to use the Hydroforce but like you mentioned, it put too much solution down and extended dry times. I live in a very cold climate and when cleaning basements (sub ground level) in the winter it was problematic. The multi-sprayer takes is a little longer but I like the consistency and control of the spray. Also, with higher heat the Hydroforce seemed inconsistent in metering.

carpetmonsters

  • Posts: 149
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2011, 02:31:53 pm »
Hi William

Have you tried lm method with pads in wringer bucket and 105 what dilution and what results

thanks

Steve

William S.

  • Posts: 6
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2011, 04:12:52 pm »
Hi Steve, sorry I have not used it for LM. I rarely have the opportunity to use LM.

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2011, 04:58:59 pm »
We use it for LM almost 90% of the time.

My guys actually prefer it as it has no smell.

carpetmonsters

  • Posts: 149
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2011, 08:23:03 pm »
Hi

How do you use it for lm cleaning

Steve

carpetmonsters

  • Posts: 149
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 05:35:41 pm »
Hi

Is no one going to tell how to bonnet clean with 210 and 105

Steve

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 05:37:40 pm »
You use it the same way as any bonnet cleaning exercise.

Pre vac
Pre spray
Run over with pad (change when soiled)
Set pile (if required)

My preference is to always apply by sprayer and use dry pads.
I know others like to wet the pads and wring them.

carpetmonsters

  • Posts: 149
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 12:09:51 pm »
Hi

does that mean you mix two products together

steve

Jamie Pearson

  • Posts: 3407
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2011, 01:30:47 am »
No. Use one or other.

I have also used 210 as the pre-spray and 105 in the tank of the machine.
(Our machines have a built in sprayer to lay down product on each pass)

carpetmonsters

  • Posts: 149
Re: DFC 210 and 105
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 05:36:07 pm »
thanks