[john martin]

It feels more powerful because after years of saying
lift is not needed, CFM's do the work, The Jaguar
has lower CFM's and higher lift.

   Ametek site states lift for 6.6 is 132" ... same or less than scorpion .


Re the airflex cable ...  bad location alright , im sure your or someone could relotate the cable glands to a better position ... the side perhaps .  just drill two holes for the glands ... feed more cable through to join up tp the previous location inside.

[Ian Gourlay]

I was just wondering if the Amtek motors in the Jaguar are available to all

What would be the effect  if you put them  in say a Ninja

[Joe H]

This is where the design of the machine comes into effect Ian.
Unless the tanks are made to sustain the effect of these new motors there will be a good chance damage to the tank will occur ie possibly split.
Despite what some may think its not just a case of "any plastic tank will do"

[john martin]

I was just wondering if the Amtek motors in the Jaguar are available to all

What would be the effect  if you put them  in say a Ninja

http://www.steam-bright.net/ameteklamb-ametek-lamb-motor-volts-p-10442.html

before you read the blurb and think ...wow

note lift same as three stage ... 
the ' efficiency' they talk about is electrical / amp draw
the cfm comparison is to a three stage of same amp draw ...  not a high watt threestage which draws more amps ... but has same cfm

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

[Joe H]

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

You reckon

[john martin]

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

You reckon

Yes .. joe .   based on the figures/data provided by both ametek and cross american

[Joe H]

Well I wait in anticipation for someone with a Ninja to put 2 of these new motors in and tell us how it performs.
Anyone up for it?

[Darren O]

Joe who actually told you if you put these vacs in say a ninja or airflex that they could damage the machine

[Colin Day]

Joe who actually told you if you put these vacs in say a ninja or airflex that they could damage the machine

It stresses my Altec's body out to the point, I stop it...

[Colin Day]

if you put them in a ninja ... i believe u would get the same performance but draw a few less amps .

You reckon

Yes .. joe .   based on the figures/data provided by both ametek and cross american

John, you talk the talk and all that stuff. But you aren't a carpet cleaner.. are you?

[Joe H]

Darren
It sounds logical to me that if you put an upgrade into something that wasnt designed for it there may well be problems.
I trained as a mechanical engineer Darren, so can think things through, and it does seem logic also from lifes experiances to expect problems.
For example, you buy a 1250 Fiesta and then put a tuned up engine in it - would you expect it to be up to the job. I would expect brake problems, suspension problems and chassis problems at the least.

The reviews coming through from users of the Jaguar is that it out performs the Scorpion. (these reports are from Scorpion users who have upgraded so they can easily do a comparision). Leaving carpets dryer must mean that their are forces in excess of the Scorpion.
I see the Scorpion tank flex, just as I saw the tank on my CFR500 flexed (when I had one).
Logically then, if you just stick 2 new designed and improved vac motors into something that wasnt designed to take the pressure then you may get problems (you may not of course).
Hence I said is anyone willing to stick the 2 new motors into a Ninja - to see what happens.
But there again IF one would get the "same performance but draw a few less amps" then there would be no point.

Dont know what machine John Martin has got, but I reckon he should test his own belief and fit 2 of these new vac motors to his machine, then he could tell us all the result. If his belief is correct and the only difference is a few less then quiet possibly Cross America and Solutions are onto a loser.

And John, if you are not a carpet cleaner - what are you?
Apart from coming from Dublin, we know nothing about you, even your website link on here goes no where.

[Colin Day]

"And John, if you are not a carpet cleaner - what are you?
Apart from coming from Dublin, we know nothing about you, even your website link on here goes no where."

John seems to have all the answers, apart from the ones that MEAN anything. I would say to John..."If you wanna try it, I'll bring the machine to your door-step myself...." (At Solution's costs, I hope....... )

[Darren O]

So Joe you dont actually know if it would damaged the other machines mentioned it just sounds logical to you because your some kind of engineer now. On the american forums Mytee and Kleenrite have been using these same vacs and there hasnt been any problems at all just seems more nonsense from the usual suspects

[john martin]

 lol  ....  dont know why this subject gets so heated  
I only interject when i see a statment that seems illogical compared to the available data ... and perhaps based on hearsay ..  
anything i'v said is backed up with the available figures ...  if i am missing / overlooking something please set me straight with a logical argument .
Yes , i am a carpet cleaner  ..   the reason i became interested in motors lately is because im planing to build a quad vac ETM for myself ... partly for the hell of it .
i have tried Many machines over the years incl the scorpion ... i often favour a small lightweight twinvac ..
Im not hung up on vac performance , there are many other factors to doing a decent job .

[Joe H]

Darren - you say
"it just sounds logical to you because your some kind of engineer now".

Just put you right - I was an engineer, that was my apprenticeship - you know, those things that are in short supply these days. I dont profess to know the in and outs of these new motors but logic tells me (backed by my engineering background) their may be problems.

Do you know if Mytee or Kleenrite have or have not re-engineered their tanks?

And nothing is stopping you, John Martin, or anybody else from putting 2 (or even 3) of these new motors into your current cases if you want. But please tell us the result of your experiment.

Go for it John - 4 of these new vac motors. I will come over to Dublin to see it (I like the Guiness).

[Darren O]

Just what i thought Joe you cant back up one thing you say its just your opinion and like you say you dont know the ins and outs of these vac motors

[john martin]

A pint sounds good , joe . you would be very welcome .
Running the 6.6 in a quad vac would make lots of sence because of the low amp draw ...
However   ... mostly based on cost and  performance i have picked up 4 of ameteks finest 3 stages  

[Joe H]

will it have a heater 

[john martin]

will it have a heater 

i see where your going with this 

The planned machine would be for motors in parellel , with option of running 2  /3 or four vacs , with the addition of check valves of manual bunging ...
i plan to pass the waste exhaust of two vacs through a simple heat exchanger , acting as a preheater ...  depending on available circuits i would run an inline heater near the wand ... and  switching off a vac if problems occour .  Would also have an immersion on the large clean tank ...  which could be occasionally plugged in ( when were having the tea  perhaps )    Other options include a plumbed exchanger in the van etc ... bit messy for me to do though .

[AJB]

The Ninja has more lift than the Jaguar, so the tank will take it easily.
The lift quoted for the Jaguar is Bulls*~t, as it states "combined".
i.e added together, so the lift is infact half what is quoted.
It apparently out performs the Scorpion because it does have more lift
than the Scorpion.

Don't forget everyone who rushed to buy a Jaguar at the introductory price
are not going to tell anyone if they've dropped a b*llock, and it's actually no improvement.

Scorpion owners have for so long slagged off other 3 vac motor machines as not being in
the same league, so why did they need to "improve it".

Here's a comparison of motors

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KKAzll_-NA&NR=1

Joe if the Scorpion tank flexed with the lift the Scorpion has, then the lift my Powrflite
produces would crush it. CFMs don't cause the flexing, water lift does, i.e sheer suction.
I've never owned a Scorpion, but i tried one at the cleaning show a few years ago and was
decidedly underwhelmed, the Ninja i had at the time was substantially more powerful.