[phil espezido]

We were stopped from cleaning the front of a building by the local council due to the proximity of overhead cables to supply trams. they have now requested that we should seek a permit from the council to do this work(£120.00 per year) to work near the tramway. does anyone have any experience of this type of situation? do you think they will blow us out when they realise we are using carbon poles? im sure they will require  RA/MS  and Im not too sure how i would be able to control the risk of a pole falling backwards into the roadway and catching a powerline on the way down.

[Nameless Drudge]

Sounds like they have done you a huge favour then.

[Helen]

You were "stopped"......... you shouldn't have been cleaning them in the first place Your initial risk assessment should have picked this DANGER up, which I guess from your post you never did one

and Im not too sure how i would be able to control the risk of a pole falling backwards into the roadway and catching a powerline on the way down.

Did you only realise this once you were stopped?
Did you not think at all that WFP would not be the best method here?
Did you check that your PL insurance would cover you for the close proximity danger risks.
Did you actually think If I hit one of those cables, what the consequences would be for maybe 1000's of people?

I am sure that the council will want full RA's and MS's if you apply for the permit (by the way the £120 is not the main issue here) and they damn well should too!!!I really  think carbon poles are the least of your worries. :

As Sean said I think they have done you a massive favour, before a major accident does occur.

[dazmond]

phil i wouldnt want the job anyway mate!why bother for £120?much safer work available elsewhere!!

CARBON POLES AND OVERHEAD CABLES DONT MIX!!!

[phil espezido]

of course i understand these points however you dont get a shock by touching overhead cables, you need to make a circuit and that requires connection with the rails. my concern is if we are working the side of a building, about 10mtrs up the danger i can see is falling backwards into the tramway and landing on the overhead cables. up until now we clean when the trams are not running. this scenario is true for all polework, falling backwards. does anyone take account of this in their RAMS?

[H S and Son]

I think you are wrong mate. You will get a shock by standing on the ground. The electricity finds the quickest route to earth, and that'll be through you.

[Dan French]

Hi All
Hybrid and carbon pole plus power cables dont mix, http://robinson-solutions.blogspot.com/2011/03/rip-window-washer-gandy-ochoa.html
We work in some village areas and the houses we work on are fed by overhead power lines, these are not insulated until they get into the building; touch them with a carbon pole and you can create a circuit down to earth and through you, and as they are backed up by 400 amp fuses your puny body would burn up before the fuse blew. We looked at this and as the favoured poles on this forum are not insulated eg G*****rs and I***cs we went for the Excel poles as they all have a fibre glass base section to provide insulation. Agreed the full fibre glass are flexible but the hybrids and carbons are more ridgid than these and certainlly better than the alloy poles you can get.

[bobby p]

one house i go to  i have to put a ladder about 4 feet from the overhead wires that run to the home. im wondering if electricity can jump that far?


i had considered doing the uppers with a pole but think it would be more risky using a pole 

[david watts]

ionics poles have glass base sections;
my pole for evry job is a facelift carbon and that has glass base section
still wear  addidas sambas to be safe from a shock

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi All
Hybrid and carbon pole plus power cables dont mix, http://robinson-solutions.blogspot.com/2011/03/rip-window-washer-gandy-ochoa.html
We work in some village areas and the houses we work on are fed by overhead power lines, these are not insulated until they get into the building; touch them with a carbon pole and you can create a circuit down to earth and through you, and as they are backed up by 400 amp fuses your puny body would burn up before the fuse blew. We looked at this and as the favoured poles on this forum are not insulated eg G*****rs and I***cs we went for the Excel poles as they all have a fibre glass base section to provide insulation. Agreed the full fibre glass are flexible but the hybrids and carbons are more ridgid than these and certainlly better than the alloy poles you can get.

Slight correction - Both the I***cs and G*******rs telescopic pole ranges have insulated handle sections. The I***cs poles achieve this with a fibre glass handle section. The G******rs poles achieve this with an insulated composite mix. 

Personally though the risk of using a pole with any conductivity where it could be dropped across high voltage tramlines, would make me extremely wary of carrying out the work. Mainly because of the damage it would cause to the high voltage lines and tramway system if it shorted across two of the lines. Your standard £2m PL insurance may not cover it!

If it is only 10m up (30ft) then I would consider just using a Fibre Glass pole - It would be much harder to work with, but would be easier to factor into your RA/MS.

[Londoner]

The jobs not worth it. Its your life they are trying to save. Plenty more jobs but only one life. You would be wise to just walk away.

[trevor perry]

even if the pole is insulated there is still a strong chance the base section could get wet so the electric would still be conducted.

[DazzaP]

 A total Glass Fibre pole will not conduct electricty.
Pure water should not conduct electricity.
But having a hose go through the middle picking up grit and any other crap, let alone any dirt washed off the windows would no doubt increase conductivity.

I used to work at the electric board.

When sections on overhead lines needed to be opened or closed glass fibre poles were used. Additionally a pair of LV gloves  (Low Voltage) upto 1000V) were used which were annually tested.
The voltage is unlikely to be above 1000V.

I can't remember the clearances but for 415V 3 phase poles (House feeds) it is centimetres.
For 11,000V I think it was about 30cm.

Most cables that go into houses these days are insulated. Older cables (bare copper) are usually green in appearance.

The Electric companies can and do put plastic shields over exposed lines if people are working near them (Scaffold/Tree cutting) at a cost.

Though this would seem unlikely for a Tramway.

With my experience would I do this job. No. The risk is too great. Even introducing some of these safeguards you won't eliminate all the risk.
Will the owner pay to have the line shrouded or turned off for the duration of the clean.

If you do proceed add the cost of the permit, increased PL and a glass fibre pole.
Rubber soled trainers and some proper LV gloves tested to 1000V onto the job.

Any other queries regarding electric feel free to ask me.

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

is this manchester way
metro link?
tell em sling it lad 

[cozy]

Pure water should not conduct electricity.


I used to work at the electric board.

You sure about that mate? Why don't you work there anymore?

[AJ]

Your poles will not have to touch they cables, the power in the cables can arc.

[Neil Gornall]

I worked on the tracks for the railway about 20 years ago. It was at the time they were putting in the overhead electric for the east coast main line.
We were all sent on an electrification course up in Doncaster to learn about the dangers.
Even walking along the track with a shovel over your shoulder was banned as the arc can jump a long way.
Personally if I were you I would take every precaution possible and any additional cost pass onto the client. If they won’t pay then walk away.
I saw a video of the results of messing with overhead power and third rails, it was horrific!

[Dean Taberner]

I've bought these to electrocute my staff for a laugh.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=310273598439

[SPE]

Pure water should not conduct electricity.


I used to work at the electric board.

You sure about that mate? Why don't you work there anymore?

deionised water does'nt conduct electricity, ie: its used in batteries etc. but I would'nt take the chance