[cas100]

hi, can any one recommend 4040 ro auto water cut off that will stop waste water as well as production water when storage tank is full. i have a static water system.
 i would like feed back from people that is using one, maybe a photo would be very helpful and gratefulll, and can you get them in 240v as well as 12v. ive look at one from cleaning spot not sure. many thanks lads

[mac74]

i have a ball cock on my ibc which stops when full, but i didnt realise the waste water was still coming out of it, is this right??

[cas100]

a ball cock, stops water dropping in to the storage tank but dose not stop water going in to the ro thats why it will still make waste, if that makes sense mate

[traps7]

Have a look at this post: http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=111946.msg956157#msg956157

[cas100]

thanks traps, thats what i need. really nice set-up.

[mac74]

thats handy to know

[cas100]

hi traps i can find veritechs website, is there any other places that do them.

[traps7]

I think they might have gone bust or something because I can't see it either. It was an online PDF brochure. They were expensive anyway.

I take it you got 15mm/half inch copper pipework so just do a search or take a punt on this one: http://www.virtualvillage.co.uk/Items/001540-024?&caSKU=001540-024&caTitle=Water%20Solenoid%20Electric%20Valve%20-%2012V%20DC%201/2%22%20Normally%20Closed%202-Way%20for%20Air%2c%20Gas%2c%20Diesel%20Oil

I wouldn't go spending seventy odd pound again on one like I did at Varitech.

I've just seen these: http://www.wintecs.co.uk/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=solenoid&osCsid=juu7idtrsbgivqou3mijuibi53&search.x=0&search.y=0

They do 12 volt or 240volt. Still expensive though.

Or here, a bit cheaper: http://www.vip-ltd.co.uk/catalogue/solenoid_valves.htm

Or good old ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-2-12V-DC-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Water-Gas-Diesel-/300542215850?pt=UK_BOI_Industrial_Automation_Control_ET&hash=item45f9b646aa

[cas100]

i am going to get the one from ebay , and get the float from wintecs, should be ok!!!!
thanks again traps big help.

[Ian Rochester]

Just done this myself, all you need is the following:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280622615926

 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250767119004

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300480064600

Connect the solenoid in line between your water supply and infeed into your filters. For the wiring connect a 240v supply from a mains plug to the transformer, then coming out on the other side of the transformer on the 12v side to one side of the solenoid, the other side of the solenoid goes to the level sensor, then back to other 12v side of transformer creating a circuit.

Total cost £25.57 inc postage

Simples

Any questions give me a call.
07790596782

[Paul Coleman]

Although it's a long way from being the stock answer, I use a ballcock in the tank.  As a backup, I use one of these:-

http://www.garden4less.co.uk/hozelock-ac-pro-water-timer-with-rain-sensor.asp

It says £93+ as RRP but you can pick them up for a lot less (about £60).

Obviously you don't set it up with the rain sensor.
Unlike most similar products, you can set it to be open for up to 24 hours - far more time than you will need to fill a 1000 ltr tank with a 40" RO.

What I do is, each time I restart the RO, I just set the time to somewhere more than I will need for it to fill the IBC.  The ballcock will stop the flow first and during the time between the ballcock activating and the timer activating, you may get some waste going down the drain (though this often doesn't happen anyway I find).  However, once the timer kicks in, it will stop the flow at the tap.  I do find that I need a bucket underneath the timer and tap as there can be slight dripping at times after the timer switches off.
I use this method because I was once let down by a solenoid that had a bit of grit get into it.  It resulted in flooding as the tank just kept overfilling.
I know this way seems a bit of a kludge but it gives me some sort of a backup in case of failure.
N.B.  The timer runs on two large batteries that will need to be replaced periodically.  I've been using this setup since November and the batteries still show as fully charged.

[Ian Rochester]

Paul

What you've done in effect is cut off the water supply at the outlet, waste water will continue running until you turn the tap off, that's fine if you are only going to be away for a short while.

The way I've set my system up is it cuts off the water at the source, so nothing will go through the RO and therefore no water goes to waste either (we're on a meter in the workshop!!)

It is also a "fail to safe" set up so if the power goes off the solenoid lose power and cuts the water off.

[Paul Coleman]

Paul

What you've done in effect is cut off the water supply at the outlet, waste water will continue running until you turn the tap off, that's fine if you are only going to be away for a short while.

The way I've set my system up is it cuts off the water at the source, so nothing will go through the RO and therefore no water goes to waste either (we're on a meter in the workshop!!)

It is also a "fail to safe" set up so if the power goes off the solenoid lose power and cuts the water off.

Ian.  The water would only run to waste between the ballcock activating and the timer shutting off.  I have a reasonable idea how long it takes to get to lifting the ballcock so I set the timer to switch off not too long after that.  The timer is fitted onto the tap and blocks the water flow at the tap when it switches off.  Basically, the top of the timer is fitted onto the tap.  The connector that leads to pre-filters and RO fits on under the timer.  When the timer activates, it blocks up the hole that runs through the timer.
Sometimes it even cuts out before activating the ballcock if I miscalculate.  I have a tall thin tank that holds 1,050 litres.  The ballcock probably loses me 50 litres of that at the top.  So even if I badly misjudge and the timer stops it when 700 litres are in the tank, there is still plenty for my days work (I'm a sole trader).  The timer and the ballcock are totally independent from each other.
I'm on a meter too.  Maybe I should start calculating the times so that the timer stops the tap flow before the ballcock is reached.

[cas100]

hi ian, ive ordered all the stuff off ebay, can you please do me a diagram as i think it will be a big help to me and others on here, thanks again and for your time on the phone. top man.

[traps7]

Paul, your water timer surely just contains a..... solenoid?!

[combat1]

the ball cock valve and a valve that stops the waste water are available from osmotics, you also need a pressure switch from them to turn off the booster pump, not big money and easy enough to fit, and no i dont work for osmotics ok!

[Ian Rochester]

I've done it as an excel document, if you email me I'll send you a copy of it, it's pretty basic so don't expect too much!!

ian@lionheartcleaning.co.uk

[Paul Coleman]

Paul, your water timer surely just contains a..... solenoid?!

No idea.
It's one of these.

http://www.hozelock.com/watering/auto-watering/water-timers/ac-pro-414.html

It closes the hole through it mechanically when the pre-set time has elapsed.  Either way, I'm not relying on this device alone.  Nor am I relying on the ballcock alone.  I just look at how much water will be needed to reach the ballcock (after filling the van tank).  I know how fast the water flows from the RO.  Then I just set up (takes a minute at most) the timer to fill for around that amount of time.  If I set it too high, the ballcock will stop the fill (though I may lose some water to waste).  If I set it too low, the water won't reach the ballcock - but that doesn't matter as there will be enough in there anyway for a day's work.
The problem I found with using a solenoid that was tripped by the water level in the tank was that some grit stopped it activating and the pump just carried on filling the tank - causing a flood (that was when I had a pumped system).  Not sure about the exact ins and outs of that as it was fitted up by a supplier.  This put me off pumped systems where the pump shutoff is activated by a solenoid detecting the water level.  Hence my current kludge up.
The important thing for me is that it works, I don't have to concern myself about flooding and it gives enough water for my needs.  As the pressure is quite low, using a non pumped system could have been a headache.  However, I forked out for a HF5 (low pressure) 40" membrane.  Naturally it doesn't perform particularly well for a 40".  However, it does give me up to about 90 litres per hour at a TDS that can be as low as 008 (the worst it's been is 65 litres per hour at TDS 015).  The pressure varies as there are other users using that stretch of mains (anything between about 23 psi and 43 psi but usually high 30s).

Could I run it more efficiently?  Yes.
Would this result in anxiety about flooding again.  Yes.

I prefer the lower efficiency along with the lower anxiety.  Of course the resin bill is a bit higher with lower pressure and higher TDS but we are talking about 3 bags a year tops.

[traps7]

That timer definately contains a solenoid powered by the batteries. Fact.

If you really want a back up then your better having a plumbed in solenoid and having the power, either 12 volt or 240 volt, on a timer.

[cas100]

ian i have sent you a email, thanks again