[Crystal-clear]

if something went wrong with a ladder man would HSE really try and prosecute ?
is the customer honestly responsible?

or if the ladder man had insurance would the customer have no worries?

[Pope vader]

if some one die from the ladder and it was the custys faulty they have the power to proscute the custy 

[Wc Solutions]

something to do with property owner providing an unsafe working enviroment ....

[Pope vader]

at the end of the day if any one is on you property to do work for you then you are responsible for the H and S, 

[Crystal-clear]

so its true if a chap gets hurt and hse gets involved they try and actually prosecute  the customer?

wont the customer get out of it by saying he is insured and works for himself and its his ladder?

[Johnny B]

I had a fall from my ladders about 18 months ago. I think my customer was really worried that I would sue her. I was unhurt, but by the way I landed, her husband took some convincing!

I told her (truthfully) that it was completely my fault and that I would not under any circumstances sue her, or any customers on whose property I have a fall. 

I choose to use ladders, so I am willing to take the consequences. Pity that so many today have to blame others for their own mistakes.

John

[AuRavelling79]

I had a fall from my ladders about 18 months ago. I think my customer was really worried that I would sue her. I was unhurt, but by the way I landed, her husband took some convincing!

I told her (truthfully) that it was completely my fault and that I would not under any circumstances sue her, or any customers on whose property I have a fall.  

I choose to use ladders, so I am willing to take the consequences. Pity that so many today have to blame others for their own mistakes.

John

Ah but Johnny - imagine it was a worse fall and you're sitting in front of the TV eating through a straw and dribbling and poohing in a bag and your knob don't work and you're watching Jeremy Kyle and that stupid advert about the underdog suing and getting comp comes on and your missus says "look Johnny we're gonna get booted out the house cuz the repo men are coming to take the three-piece and here's a red letter from the gas and the leccy and you just know that the bigshot lawyer might get you a six figure sum ..."

Wotchagonna do then? Hmmmmmm? Principles don't feed the kids or satisfy the wife and the suicide clause on your life insurance stops you choosing that route and you can't get out the wheelchair to fasten the exhaust to the flexi hose and put it back through the driver's window anyway...

 

[mci services]

the OP just wanted a few facts to put in a letter not a debate personally I use whatever method suits the jobs and risk assess accordingly :

[AuRavelling79]

> Sorry Stu Mac

Right - for the OP's letter.

Dear Mrs Custy,

If a windie falls on your property and ends up watching Jeremy Kyle and poohing in a bag etc he will sue you roight!?

or ...

Dear Mrs Custy,

You absurd woman - if you think I am going to risk my neck by climbing a ladder on your property then you have got one more screw loose than even I thought possible.

After all it's not like you look like rapunzel and have anything to offer a nubile and agile windy ... no, madam; indeed you have a face like a box of spanners and the figure of a porcine sow.

or ...

Two million five hundred thousand nine hundred and sixty three people die falling from height every year. I know you don't care you mad old bat as long as your upper windows are squeegeed by some servile cretin teetering on the top rung of a rickety ladder.

So find someone else you aging anachronism.

Any help, OP?  

[mci services]

sorry I actually replied in the wrong post I meant that reply for another post on how many windy's a year : but as it is the same poster he will understand

[BORBRYCE]

  ;

Stu or Gold.... who is dafter?

[mci services]

me I am dafter

[Johnny B]

It looks as though I am the daft one. I still stand by what I say. Yes I have made mistakes and my own carelessness has caused me to have the odd fall.

I could be just as careless driving to work and have a crash...
I could stay in bed on Friday the 13th and have the ceiling fall on me... My point being. ..

... I don't worry unduly about what might or might not happen. I am usually very careful, although I clearly am not fallible. I take each situation as it comes, and am prepared to accept responsibility for my own actions.

John.

[wpclean]

A customer cannot force you to clean their windows if it is unsafe to do so.  If they employed somone to carry out the work and they were injured , then they ( the property owner ) would be responsible in the eyes of the law.

[mci services]

It looks as though I am the daft one. I still stand by what I say. Yes I have made mistakes and my own carelessness has caused me to have the odd fall.

I could be just as careless driving to work and have a crash...
I could stay in bed on Friday the 13th and have the ceiling fall on me... My point being. ..

... I don't worry unduly about what might or might not happen. I am usually very careful, although I clearly am not fallible. I take each situation as it comes, and am prepared to accept responsibility for my own actions.

John.

spot on johnny

[Bay View WCS]

It looks as though I am the daft one. I still stand by what I say. Yes I have made mistakes and my own carelessness has caused me to have the odd fall.

I could be just as careless driving to work and have a crash...
I could stay in bed on Friday the 13th and have the ceiling fall on me... My point being. ..

... I don't worry unduly about what might or might not happen. I am usually very careful, although I clearly am not fallible. I take each situation as it comes, and am prepared to accept responsibility for my own actions.

John.

I may be a newbie but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with your comments on this point.  Surely the point is that you have a duty (both to yourself, your family, your customers and anyone else involved) to minimise the risks you take.  Your example of driving a car is not an analogy which can compare to window cleaning- when driving your car you (presumably) fasten your seatbelt, you do not drive at inappropriate speeds whenever you feel like it, you do not pull out of junctions without looking and you do not drive a car/van with faulty brakes.  You do not do these things because they increase the risk of an accident occurring and by not doing them you minimise the risk- this is not, therefore 'not worrying unduly about what might or might not happen'.

Now compare this to window cleaning and you are certainly not minimising the risk of an accident.  The single biggest thing you can do to remove the risk of a fall from a ladder is to not use a ladder.  Considering that you have had accidents/falls with ladder it does surprise me that you continue to do so when there are safer options available.

[Johnny B]

There is a risk in practically anything we do.
Yes, I am a careful driver, but I have been involved in accidents. Yes, I use a ladder, and have fallen. It happens.

I am not knocking anyone who uses the modern methods, but it is always possible that someone can trip over a hose, the wind could suddenly catch one off guard, causing the operative to lose control and/or drop their pole on someone's head, etc. These things happen as well.   

I am not being critical, I am simply pointing out that whatever way we go about our business, the unexpected can, and sometimes does, happen.

In 14 years of window cleaning, I have had 4 falls, ranging from about 7 to 15 feet. In the worst case, I walked away with no more than a couple of scratches and minor bruising.   
I agree that I have been very fortunate, and it is with this in mind that I now constantly risk assess and take my time to position my ladders correctly, and don't climb until I am satisfied that it is safe to do so.

John.
 
 
   

[bobby p]

that UNDERDOG advert and that one with BILLY MURRAY ,injury lawyers 4 u ,  are fuelling claims  big time now.       i ask customers to go inside when i  get ready to climb my ladder

[AuRavelling79]

There is a risk in practically anything we do.
Yes, I am a careful driver, but I have been involved in accidents. Yes, I use a ladder, and have fallen. It happens.

I am not knocking anyone who uses the modern methods, but it is always possible that someone can trip over a hose, the wind could suddenly catch one off guard, causing the operative to lose control and/or drop their pole on someone's head, etc. These things happen as well.   

I am not being critical, I am simply pointing out that whatever way we go about our business, the unexpected can, and sometimes does, happen.

In 14 years of window cleaning, I have had 4 falls, ranging from about 7 to 15 feet. In the worst case, I walked away with no more than a couple of scratches and minor bruising.    I agree that I have been very fortunate, and it is with this in mind that I now constantly risk assess and take my time to position my ladders correctly, and don't climb until I am satisfied that it is safe to do so.

John.
 
 
   

Read that bit in red again ...

Johnny - I spent my first ten years w/c climbing ladders (including 3 floor stuff) and I had no falls at all. But I did have one incident where the ladder slipped and I only saved myself by hanging onto an open transom bar, standing on the cill and kicking the ladder back into place before climbing down with the taste of fresh heart on my lips.

Don't ever apologise to a custy for using wfp - get angry inside with them and yourself for expecting you to climb one when you don't need to! They won't offer one cent if you maim yourself.

[Neil Gornall]

If I am quoting a job and they say I don’t want you using "that pole thingy" I say no problem, I can use ladders, but will need you to sign a waiver to say I have assessed your property and feel wfp is the safest option but you won’t allow it.

I tell them I need it for my insurance in case there is an accident as they will undoubtedly “look for blame”

I offer to send the document for them to sign and return before cleaning will commence.
So far no has taken me up on the offer and we have NO ladder jobs on the books