[bad trippy]

Not another start up

We all needed advice in the begining

[S]

I know we all need advice at the begining. BUT,  The amount of window cleaners seemed to of shot up, like their is no tomorrow. It is affecting my business. Affecting alot of window cleaning businesses I expect.

[Smudger]

Welcome to the forum,

the following is based on my experience, if you want to chat more then please feel free to email.

basically i was in your situation 2 years ago - great job 32k, however the old economy went t!t$ up and the
redundancies started. i (we (the family)) decided that working for ourselves was the way to go, while waiting for the
dreaded white letter i spent that summer canvassing and preparing for window cleaning - ie.. door knock to see
what percentage of households had or needed a w/c - how many w/c's already operated in the area, i cleaned hoses at
the weekends and days off, ( all trad ) when the day arrived i had only enough money to last 3 months - in that time i managed to get in enough work to sustain a living ( all bills paid etc.. ) i also started in sept and by the following May i was over my employed wage ( remember as self employed you can claim for stuff that you would normally just pay for - electric use, water rates clothing etc..)

If you can be dedicated, dont spend money on things you would like to have just NEED to have , and your area has the
 oppertunity  to get the work - then you could make it work.

Take Cozy's advise and look and the site he linked ! - well worth it - go and do your windows + families see how you get on.

lastly - don't waste money! if you need a van - but a small tidy example for around a grand - build your own system - it's straightforward you could be up and running wfp for about £1200 - thats everything - don't wrap debt by spending thousands on a system !

best regards

Darran

[bad trippy]

I know we all need advice at the begining. BUT,  The amount of window cleaners seemed to of shot up, like their is no tomorrow. It is affecting my business. Affecting alot of window cleaning businesses I expect.

In my day when i first started up (1985) it was so much easier back then, infact back then lots of shiners only used scrims or chammys.
No internet, no wc coarses, no wfp, no ebay to buy gear etc etc, it was each to his own then!
But the forums are a catch 22, we have all needed them for advice on this new toy called wfp and other stuff, trouble is, its now much easier for someone to become a shiner, by simply typing in "window cleaning forum"
The forums and especialy the talk of big money is attracting newbies like flies to cow crap.
But we established guys love the forums!
One last point is, this country is in the biggest heap of crap its ever been in before (thanks labour)
With cut backs redundancies, increased costs and doom and gloom, blah blah blah.
Little wonder why bank managers and IT high flyers are considering window cleaning in this era we live in is it?

[S]

I know we all need advice at the begining. BUT,  The amount of window cleaners seemed to of shot up, like their is no tomorrow. It is affecting my business. Affecting alot of window cleaning businesses I expect.

In my day when i first started up (1985) it was so much easier back then, infact back then lots of shiners only used scrims or chammys.
No internet, no wc coarses, no wfp, no ebay to buy gear etc etc, it was each to his own then!
But the forums are a catch 22, we have all needed them for advice on this new toy called wfp and other stuff, trouble is, its now much easier for someone to become a shiner, by simply typing in "window cleaning forum"
The forums and especialy the talk of big money is attracting newbies like flies to cow crap.
But we established guys love the forums!
One last point is, this country is in the biggest heap of crap its ever been in before (thanks labour)
With cut backs redundancies, increased costs and doom and gloom, blah blah blah.
Little wonder why bank managers and IT high flyers are considering window cleaning in this era we live in is it?

Wise words trippy.

[AuRavelling79]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

And as for going on training courses - sheesh! It's window cleaning - you don't need a flash geezer in a BMW in a suit telling you what to do.

If you must do it then buy some work and build the rest by canvassing. Get a sound secondhand van and build your own system.

But with a baby on the way, a house move and a September start I think unless you have good dosh behind you then you are going to have a hellish time. If that baby is your first then you should be milking your present job for everything - paternity leave holidays the lot.

Look at window cleaning next March and spend the rest of the time thinking it through; go out with a windy in the depths of winter or the pouring rain and weep as you recall those warm moments round the coffee machine chatting up young Julie from accounts while sharing a doughnut or two!

Use the next 12 months to really plan your move - September is way too soon with what you've got coming up on your already full plate.

The grass is always greener.

[clearlyclean]

A move to India would appeal to me rather than window cleaning  spend the next 6 months canvassing in evenings and cleaning on weekends then you'll have 8 days work if your lucky by September and just another 12 days a month to find heading into winter or you can sell the work

[Richard iSparkle]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

the problem with this is, is it just isn't true!  :

of course franchisees make money.  its a symbiotic relationship between a franchisor and franchisee.  one cannot make money without the other. 

[Perfect Windows]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

I'd like to see you get any of Ian Lancaster's franchisees to agree with you.

Like anything, there are good and bad franchises but a blanket statement like that is not really fair.

Starting in September is asking for a fall.  Keep grinding through till spring next year when your home life is settled and picking up customers is easier would be my advice.  Spend the time reading through back pages on here.  When you do look through back posts work out who talks sense and who just whines and runs other people down.  Read all the posts of the first lot, ignore every post of the second lot.  Note down all the good ideas you find.  That will give you a book full of very good ideas about how to progress.  I see no reason at all why you shouldn't succeed in Swindon.  I tried to persuade a relative of mine to move into this game in Swindon when he was made redundant.  He chose not to, but I think it's perfect territory.  People who are reasonably well-off who will pay for good service.  All you need to do is find them.

To everyone saying there are too many newbies about - I'm new and in a year I've gone from a standing start to over 300 customers (at good prices).  I simply don't see the huge upswell of competition you lot seem to be worried about.  Oh, hang on, perhaps I am the competition you're worried about.  There seems to be an inexhaustible supply of new customers.  Eleven in the last seven days...

Vin

[Nameless Drudge]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

the problem with this is, is it just isn't true!  :

of course franchisees make money.  its a symbiotic relationship between a franchisor and franchisee.  one cannot make money without the other. 

Where are you in your business plan with this franchise?,are you on target for £35k a year?,and if so,how much is paid out of this to the franchisor?

Any time i have looked closely at a franchised set up of any sort i quickly saw that i was expected to be a total mug and pay for the privilege.
  If you are happy with whatever you have i am pleased for you but it must be bloody good for you to come on here and recommend it so can you supply some real figures since last september .I`m on here to learn but i would tell anyone to stay a million miles away from a franchise.

[bobby p]

always head South in your area to find work is my tip.its always richer in my experience

[boshravie]

Hi - This is my first post and I'm a complete newbie.

I'm 42, married, kid, mortgage etc - I work in IT and make about 36G but increasingly I'm very unhappy in my job and my company has just made 99 redundancies and has now adopted a policy of outsourcing IT work to India where labour is cheaper - basically the writing is on the wall, I escaped the axe this time but it's only a matter of time and at my age and in this economic climate I don't want to be chasing IT jobs

I got into IT 5 years ago because I needed more money - before that I was working as a Green keeper - loved it but money was ****

So now I want to combine the outdoor work that I enjoy and I want to be making about what I'm making now ASAP

Is this a reasonable assumption? Can I pull in 35G+ Window cleaning?
Is the work really there for the taking (I'm in Swindon)


I going to start by doing doing the core courses at the BWCA and then I'm going to get a van and some kind of WFP system - either van mounted or trolley. I may even start using my car until I know what I'm doing

Do I need a van for the WFP trolley systems? - I've read that they can be used from a car but is that true?

Final question (for now ;-)) - the earliest I can start is September - is this a bad time to start? what is the best time to start?

Thanks - any advice from you guys much appreciated - best way to get started, earning potential etc

Friends/family all think I'm completely loopy even to be thinking of getting out of IT but my wife is on my side - I want to be my own boss!

Cheers

Jon

Hi Jon
You can always head south and  take up my franchisee, guarantee more than £35 K within 12 months if you put the effort. 

[Richard iSparkle]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

the problem with this is, is it just isn't true!  :

of course franchisees make money.  its a symbiotic relationship between a franchisor and franchisee.  one cannot make money without the other. 

Where are you in your business plan with this franchise?,are you on target for £35k a year?,and if so,how much is paid out of this to the franchisor?

Any time i have looked closely at a franchised set up of any sort i quickly saw that i was expected to be a total mug and pay for the privilege.
  If you are happy with whatever you have i am pleased for you but it must be bloody good for you to come on here and recommend it so can you supply some real figures since last september .I`m on here to learn but i would tell anyone to stay a million miles away from a franchise.

you are quite right.  it is bloody good! i am more absolutely gobsmacked with the quality of support and advice i am receiving.  i am bang on target despite since starting in Sep 2010, having my first child in November, having a fire in my office that wiped destroyed the office and wiped out all customer records in December, and despite all the terrible weather in December, and of course the recession!  So yep.  Pretty happy to recommend Concept 2O.  Wouldn't recommend another franchise i spoke to, but wont name them now.

The other thing is that I have set up a successful company (domestic cleaning not WC) myself before without any franchise, so i've experienced both ways of starting up.  i could have done the same with WC but am confident i wouldn't be where i am now if i had of done it alone.  a good franchisor will stop you making the mistakes that everyone makes at startup, and stop you wasting the money you will waste.

like i said before.  they are not for everyone.  if you are the type who will listen to what they say, and just do what they say, you can do very very well with them.  if you are the type that wants to try out their own ideas, and do things their own way this is fine, but a franchise prob isnt right for you and you are wasting money.  you are paying for their advice after all! 

 

[Londoner]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

The grass is always greener.

Agree absolutely 100%. None of the franchise vans I have seen around here ever lasted long. If you haven't got what it takes to do it on your own then giving somebody your life savings isn't going to change your personality. 

[Smudger]

The main problem with franchise is you pay out for this that and the other, while promoting
another company, not yourself and you still have to get the work

Darran

[Tom White]

So, just out of interest how does the franchise thing work?

Do you give the franchise company a wadge of money and they provide you with work, equipment, training and mentoring.

You then do the work, and for the rest of your time with them they take a cut of your earnings; even 10 years down the line?

Is that how it works?

What would happen if you wanted to leave the franchise at a later date?  Would any work you picked up by yourself be yours?

[Paul Coleman]

I agree with Richard Concept 20 will provide you with the best system and their knowledge and expertise will be invaluable their hot water systems are expensive but you get what you pay for.

So you get some good quality kit at an extortionate price, which really does equal some pure water coming out of a brush head (which was probably designed to sweep floors with in the first instance), what can Concept 20 do to turn you into a high flying window cleaner turning over £35K in your first year?

I'm sorry to sound sceptical here, but I am.

Spot on Tosh, he would be better off going to pure freedom, better still a second hand set up from ebay or here

I was going to say this too.  As he needs a flying start, keeping the startup costs down are important as well as a fast build up of work.  As far as I know, Pure Freedom are the cheapest system installers for vans.  Also, it would be better to set up a purifying system away from the van.  This might affect the choice of property that he moves into.  A driveway and a garage would be a big help - especially to combat freeze-ups.  I live in a flat and can't purify at home.  So I pay rent for a storage lockup where I have my kit set up.  As it's Swindon area the water will be hard so unable to get away with resin only filtering.  Paying a bit extra for a driveway and a garage (if possible) will probably save in the longer term. The only "extravagance" I would suggest would be with pole selection.  Gardiners for light weight carbon is definitely the best option - especially for someone in their 40s who is probably unused to manual work.
As for the BWCA/Ionics courses, although some useful things can be learned for a new person, going out for a few days with windies from another area would be far more useful.  This can be fine tuned with courses later once the finances are on track.  However, please bear in mind that BWCA/Ionics do try to steer you towards buying their products - albeit subliminally.  Although some of their products are just fine, they do tend to be at the pricier end of the scale.  Also, they do seem to unnecessarily complicate some aspects.
Can £36k be made in year one?  Probably not from a standing start.  However, if enough time and money is thrown at it with canvassing, canvassing companies, buying work etc., it may just be possible for year two - but it might require more devotion than a new father would be prepared to give.  If a decent redundancy payment is in the offing this may be possible.  Also, I believe that all the startup costs (up to £25k???) can be offset in year one these days so it could effectively give a tax free first year.  This would probably reduce the need to get to £36k profit in year one.  Though bear in mind that if these expenses are (mostly) offset in year one, they obviously can't be used again in year two.  However, that may be what's needed as it would give a bit more breathing space in the time period when it would be needed the most.
One thing I would say is what was said to me when I first went self-employed.
Get an accountant.
You can probably get one for a simple business for under £250 a year (cost is tax deductible too).  It's likely an accountant may want a deposit but you probably wouldn't have to pay the bulk of the cost until the first set of books were produced.

[G Griffin]

Ever thought about contracting and building a round?

Good luck
Dave.

I would suggest this too; although I know nothing about contracting or IT.
I would start up gradually in your position. There`s a lot to be said for a guaranteed, regular income; even a part time one.
Another thing is- you might not like window cleaning. Especially when you need to acquire so many customers or clean so many houses to pay the bills. I sometimes think- I like cleaning windows but don`t like having to clean windows; if that makes sense  .
Oh and you should be ok with a trolley in a decent sized car with a trolley system; on a smallish scale anyway.

[Smudger]

Good post Paul,

yes any costs will be tax dedustable in year 1 and you could also get a large tax refund.

just another thing your wages maybe 36k - but this is most likely a gross figure - take off tax NI etc...

so when doing windows your don't require 36k profit,

for me i saved over £350 a month in petrol - this came out of wages just to get to/from work, now of course all fuel comes
off the the bottom line

Darran

[Nameless Drudge]

Don't touch a franchise as a franchisee - the only people who seem to make money from franchising are the franchisors!

the problem with this is, is it just isn't true!  :

of course franchisees make money.  its a symbiotic relationship between a franchisor and franchisee.  one cannot make money without the other. 

Where are you in your business plan with this franchise?,are you on target for £35k a year?,and if so,how much is paid out of this to the franchisor?

Any time i have looked closely at a franchised set up of any sort i quickly saw that i was expected to be a total mug and pay for the privilege.
  If you are happy with whatever you have i am pleased for you but it must be bloody good for you to come on here and recommend it so can you supply some real figures since last september .I`m on here to learn but i would tell anyone to stay a million miles away from a franchise.

you are quite right.  it is bloody good! i am more absolutely gobsmacked with the quality of support and advice i am receiving.  i am bang on target despite since starting in Sep 2010, having my first child in November, having a fire in my office that wiped destroyed the office and wiped out all customer records in December, and despite all the terrible weather in December, and of course the recession!  So yep.  Pretty happy to recommend Concept 2O.  Wouldn't recommend another franchise i spoke to, but wont name them now.

The other thing is that I have set up a successful company (domestic cleaning not WC) myself before without any franchise, so i've experienced both ways of starting up.  i could have done the same with WC but am confident i wouldn't be where i am now if i had of done it alone.  a good franchisor will stop you making the mistakes that everyone makes at startup, and stop you wasting the money you will waste.

like i said before.  they are not for everyone.  if you are the type who will listen to what they say, and just do what they say, you can do very very well with them.  if you are the type that wants to try out their own ideas, and do things their own way this is fine, but a franchise prob isnt right for you and you are wasting money.  you are paying for their advice after all! 

 

As this thread is about starting up advice for a newbie i will categorically say that a new starter should stay well clear of any franchise arrangement.All the support and advice needed for a successful window cleaning start up is available on here for free.

I would nearly guarantee that when anyone gets out of their franchise arrangement there is a huge sigh of relief and hindsight will show it was unneccesary and when the sums are added up for close inspection its bordering on criminal the huge amount of work done to pay someone else.