[ronnie paton]

after the recent THREAD i would just like a small insight on business profits percentages and maybe a rough out expenses value.

my reason is after certan claims i question if im paying to much out on expenses and could make more profit......i was hoping we could achieve this on the other post but it was locked.

to mods please dont lock this could help all businesses become more proffitable and has we all know profit is the name turnover is just the game....

[formb]

I think there is a real misunderstanding from certain users here on the term profit.

If I wanted I could rearrange all my cost of sales, make them an expense and hey presto my gross profit looks fabulous.

Net profit however would remain the same.

[clearlyclean]

I think it all depends if your a sole trader or only have a few blokes then the profit margin in percentage would be higher than a company who pays out wages has an office,yard and number of employees,but the real figure is pound notes and I see it this way the more profit the more tax you'll have taken off you but better to make 200k and pay 40% tax than 35k and pay 25%.Businesses go through many stages from start-up=low profit even minus profit to an establish one that has everything in place and sailing along in old escort vans or a business that is pushing forward and investing in vans equipment and training the profit would be lower but in the long run should be fitter and keep going.It is always good to review profit margins regularly and see where you can improve without compromising your business and never worry too much what the competition are doing as we never see the full picture.

[Clive McDonald]

I spent some time thinking about this Fred, and who he might be, but then it dawned you had probably misspelt thread.

I agree with the above about profit- all three of you.

When i started wc i genuinley beleived it could make me rich.Now i don't think this.I can see unlimited growth (limited only by my competence to manage) but as the growth occurs margins lower. Most notably 20% vat and wages and costs.

Millionaire? twenty employees over twenty years, maybe, this time next year? not this time rodders.

[mikecam]

after the recent fred i would just like a small insight on business profits percentages and maybe a rough out expenses value.

Even if everyone told you theirs exactly i'd question how its any use to you. Also you can't give a 'rough out expenses value' as everyones is different. And everyone operates different.

my reason is after certan claims i question if im paying to much out on expenses and could make more profit......

Only YOU will know the answer to that based on your own circumstances. You shouldn;t use anyone else as a yardstick.

i was hoping we could achieve this on the other post but it was locked.

to mods please dont lock this could help all businesses become more proffitable and has we all know profit is the name turnover is just the game....

Again, it won't help. If i was to advise everyone ditch their RO systems and just fill tanks with taps and use DI only as time is money you'd think i was mad. But thats what some people do as it works for them. Should we all buy new vans and renew every three years, or buy three year old vans and renew every five years? Pay staff 'a good wage' to keep them happy or pay minimum wage because we know we can replace them? Should we charge cheap and go for quantity, expensive and go for quality? Commercial work or residential work?
 All them ways do work. Only yourself can tell if its profitable enough.

[ronnie paton]

mike good post but if we do we can pick and choose what we might want to change, yes we run the business but sometimes you can be doing things that effect your PROFIT and could change this with help of others.

i do use di only and only cant consider buying a brand new van when after a couple of years i get them so much cheaper but im positive im doing some things than can be changed to hel my business.

so i guess i dont agree with"only yourself can tell you if its profitable enough" if you have nothing to comapre it to course you think it is otherwise why the hell would you do it that way?

[Rob_Mac]

Ronnie

I will give a little of my thinking.

I have been after a large pressure washer for quite some time. Something more than the norm.

In the buy and sell section one came up the other day 7500psi at only 100kgs of weight (a bit of a brute) but because it runs on petrol it will cost me £20.00 per day as opposed to under four pounds a day of red diesel. I left it because it was too expensive to run!!!

I try and make those decisions every day!

Rob

[ronnie paton]

i should of though more in deph when i choose my van has at the mo i go through 80 per van a week and im not getting 400miles i would expect

[Rob_Mac]

Am I correct in remembering that you no longer work full time in your business (I mean physically getting your hands dirty)

Rob

[Clive McDonald]

I'm a bit at sea with this and what you are expecting. I though clearly clean explained it very well.I'll chuck in a couple more examples.

A trad guy has ladders on a range rover.He pays five guys forty pounds a day cash in hand and collects and admins insisting on cash payments only.He under declares but likes to trouser four hundred a day.

Another guy has a great business but spends his life living in a caravan hundreds of miles from home.

[ronnie paton]

hi rob thats not so correct at the moment the weather and the new work increase has put a stop to that

[Gav Camm lammy 283]

i should of though more in deph when i choose my van has at the mo i go through 80 per van a week and im not getting 400miles i would expect

ronnie if you were to buy a merlin say 230 quid
you would save a fortune in resin costs truth

[Rob_Mac]

I have a short term vision, middle term vision and long term vision.

The first two are coming to an end and I am expecting in the next twelve months to be going into the long term vision and managing my business activities.

My activities over the last four years have been to show several clients the necessity for a proven external cleaning services contractor. There was not one before me. It was always an add on to another contractors remit but now it is being recognised and my business is in demand.

I live in a converted van (caravans are for grandads and travellers!!!) and even this has been thought through as the most economical means of working away for a week at a time.

The framework is in place, I know what I have to do to replicate all areas of my business and moving forward I can employ people under relatively comfortable circumstances, with nominal overheads and maximum profits.

The business model has proven to work and I can see my aspirations being realised not misguided or beaten down by listening to negativity or wrong advice.

I wonder which part of my business, that just happens to be with all of the major supermarkets you fail to understand. As an addition the website is also being redone and will become another marketing tool that I have failed to utilise but will see additional interest in what is to offer.

Rob

[ronnie paton]

rob well done you are more experienced in life and in  business than me, you have to a t the best way your business runs.

me on the other hand proberly should of mastered my clients needs and my business needs before i started employing and growing(which may well have been to quickly) but i live and learn and can say im still growing now

like i say im always learning, im pretty sure rob you learn athing or two as well.

i admire your attiutude and what you have a achieved, one thing iv learnt is never take your foot totally of the pedal and or take your business for granted it wont run its self.

[Clive McDonald]

Are you talking to me rob? Did you i think was digging at you? Not so.I've always followed what you say/ your biz.You sold a residential, i would never have had the nerve to do that.You had the gold biz before that.See, i'm a student and an admirer.

I have wondered what price living away from home, that much is true.


You do have a unique business and probably could roll it out.

[Rob_Mac]

Ronnie

We first met years ago and I know that you will achieve what you are looking for but I remembered reading that you had come away from main business activities and that shocked me.

Sorry I was talking to you Slump. I thought you were having a dig!

My home life is private but what I will say is I do not have many of the restraints that others have on here and for this I am thankful.

This allows me to spend money on the business development that I would not ordinarily be able to do.

I have gambled with my marriage and more than once I have been very close to being a full time gypo. I have promised my wife this year it will change and I have the machination in place to make this happen. It is only a case of replication now.

If I may be honest Slump I will say I would like to meet you, I think you are like me and I believe that if you keep going you will have a succesful business. You are a thinker though and I hope you don't think too deeply rather than making it happen.

Sometimes a gamble is worth it. Listen less on here and find like minded people whos' energy you can draw on when you are feeling less than fully charged.

I wish you well

Rob

[prestige cleaners]

common sense = profit

dont buy brand new gear unless its profitable. (except poles)

buy second hand vans (not too old though)

service vans twice a year yourself to get extra fuel economy and save money on garage bills

get an r.o. there really is no excuse not to, you can fill them at night, so how is that wasting time  :

dont buy a house with a water meter

claim all expenses, fuel, clothing, van, insurance, mobiles, internet, phone, charity, mot, public liabilty, breakdown cover, tyres, parts, poles, filters, laptop, etc.

price high.

work 5 days a week (not for me thanks)

simples.

[G Griffin]

Sometimes it pays to continue trading, even if you are making a loss. 

[leights]

everyone is different with different outgoings, i cant see how not beleiving others will get anyone anywhere...

there is a certin someone in swansea, who has a very good window cleaning business and from what i gather his outgoing are tiny as he plans everything to the tee, iv seen his vans and web ect and he really is on the ball my windy mates all say the same and his attitude is more or less as dirty windows said, , he knows so many people in the trade ie, vans sales window cleaning supplies and has so many customers his work load so high, he's beating his overheads by a mile, leaving hudge profits....iv seen some of his hosues he cleans , 35 and 45 pound a clean, he got the whole area,,,,,jealous much!! good luck to him

[ronnie paton]

leights everyone outgoing are the same but there are same basic that everyone must have ie vat when you hit the threshold wage if you employ, holiday sick and employees liabilities, insurance vans and employees, fuel and vehicle maintenance cost, equipment expenses to name a few.

i guess by your figueres you dont have these

its not about doubting i know has i run a business with a current turnover of over double what you said your was, its about finding ways of cutting expenses