[happy mondays]

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?profile=css21&warning=0&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleansurrey.co.uk%2F

oops your not to hot on css either eh   

take my advice, buy dreamweaver and go on a 10 week course, see how you go with it, then tell me its no good 

[garyj]

Adam I am honestly not taking the pee.

In my opinion your replies bear no relevance to what the original poster wants to gain from this course, he has already stated he could buy a book but doesn't  want to go down that route, you have affectively offered an 'online' book.

Dreamweaver is the industry standard, in my opinion and my opinion alone your advice is poor on this issue.

I really don't want to wind you up, but really mate, your advice is rubbish and the way you come across gets peoples backs up. You're like a spoilt petulant child.
I'm trying to help you here in the same way I am trying to help you by telling you you are NOT Surrey's leading Green Eco cleaner and shouldn't advertise as such.

I think your forte might be a job with my local council, you are very good at digging holes.

I don't want to be seen to be picking on you, but what you write begs a reply.

[Adam P]

ok happy monday fine.

css validator? erm ok none of those invalid points are worth worrying over. if you had a decent experience with this (which others do on this forum so it's only a matter of time until one come on and backs me up for once) you'd know that what i've done is perfectly valid

example so that people who aren't experienced can see i'm right

"Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist : 6px 6px" is most of the errors...

http://www.the-art-of-web.com/css/border-radius/

you'll see border-radius is a new thing, so new in fact it's not even classed as valid as it's ahead of it's time. it is infact perfectly valid and works great.

all other errors are because i purposely put an x before the code to make it not work. this is standard stuff and is normal practice. it's not valid, but so what? it removes pieces of code quickly but leaves them there for future access

here's another example of how much it matters that you have valid markup...

google.co.uk validation

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F
 
so i think i win that one as well

[Adam P]

gary imo my advice still is valid and has a point.

i saw that Derek wanted advice on the following:


1. any thoughts on this.  (keyword hear is any )
2. would i learn much.
3. wouldn't mind building a few websites of my own and being able to edit them would help.
4. is this a good start?
5. i want to design my own websites with an understanding of HTML.
6. i want to understand SEO.
7. it makes sense to understand all this my self so i can keep the websites fresh and up to date

based on what derek has asked for, i think i've given good advice. he doesn't want ot read books, ok i've suggested website. if he'd said i don't want to read website or books or use a html editor then maybe my advice is a "bit" pointless. i put bit in quotes as i still think it's needed as i'd say if you want to do the above, you can't just say you'll cut corners and achieve them. have respect for the business and understand it's not a case of don't read books, don't research online, buy a click and you're done software and bam you know/get what you want.

you say the way i offer advice gets people wound up. so really saying imo don't use dreamweaver but instead xyz is then fair to say users then go fishing for reasons to insult me? i mean come on what relevance has my design choice of a site which so many users comment on how much they love, got to do with this thread. why aren't you saying to happy monday how unrelated that is?

i find so often it seems to be on this carpet cleaning forum that if you don't agree with a user then they'll hunt you down and attack you as much as they can to disprove you as a person so that nothing you say is held with any authority. it's the only reason i can see why happy is hunting around on my site. if he can find a way to suggest i have done one thing wrong (which in fact is actually completely right and actually shows experience) then others will believe my opinion of dreamweaver is also wrong. 

[happy mondays]

ok happy monday fine.

css validator? erm ok none of those invalid points are worth worrying over. if you had a decent experience with this (which others do on this forum so it's only a matter of time until one come on and backs me up for once) you'd know that what i've done is perfectly valid

example so that people who aren't experienced can see i'm right

"Property -moz-border-radius doesn't exist : 6px 6px" is most of the errors...

http://www.the-art-of-web.com/css/border-radius/

you'll see border-radius is a new thing, so new in fact it's not even classed as valid as it's ahead of it's time. it is infact perfectly valid and works great.

all other errors are because i purposely put an x before the code to make it not work. this is standard stuff and is normal practice. it's not valid, but so what? it removes pieces of code quickly but leaves them there for future access

here's another example of how much it matters that you have valid markup...

google.co.uk validation

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F
 
so i think i win that one as well

But i'm not worrying over it Adam its not my site, you posted before that you can learn to build websites from this site and dreamweaver is like a rug doctor.

How can you now say the site is wrong in telling you the code isnt valid. Make your mind up.

I was writing html when you were still in a push chair, I would rather have valid html and css on a website, is this wrong?

Just read your last post Adam, you need help mate 

[Adam P]

ah the old "i've been doing this for years what do you know argument". great one. this is always best as one thing you hear is how quickly technology is moving. you go to uni to learn computer science and by the time you're out everything you've learnt is old technology. this is clear from how you put any weight onto how valid your html and css is  (it's what everony used to do but not anymore as it's pointless) and don't seem to even understand the errors i've got as someone with experience would realise they're perfectly fine.

the simple truth is GOOGLE.CO.UK have 41 errors! google! you list this as an issue but GOOGLE have 41 errors on their home page alone! on their search results page i get 75 errors. to anyone who doesn't know this area just look at those errors and say does it really matter when the highest ranking website in the world doesn't even care?

[garyj]

gary imo my advice still is valid and has a point.

i saw that Derek wanted advice on the following:


1. any thoughts on this.
2.would i learn much.
3.wouldn't mind building a few websites of my own and being able to edit them would help.
4. is this a good start?
5. i want to design my own websites with an understanding of HTML.
6. i want to understand SEO.
7. it makes sense to understand all this my self so i can keep the websites fresh and up to date

based on what derek has asked for, i think i've given good advice. he doesn't want ot read books, ok i've suggested website. if he'd said i don't want to read website or books or use a html editor then maybe my advice is a "bit" pointless.[/font] i put bit in quotes as i still think it's needed as i'd say if you want to do the above, you can't just say you'll cut corners and achieve them. have respect for the business and understand it's not a case of don't read books, don't research online, buy a click and you're done software and bam you know what you want.

Ohhhh Adam, that is EXACTLY what he does say..... go and have a read. You're doing my melon in man.

And now we finally agree that your posts are "a bit pointless", your wordds not mine, your evidence, not mine.

Now please shut up.

[Adam P]

Ohhhh Adam, that is EXACTLY what he does say..... go and have a read. You're doing my melon in man.

did you miss the rest of my post gary? here is it again...

I put bit in quotes as i still think it's needed as i'd say if you want to do the above, you can't just say you'll cut corners and achieve them. have respect for the business and understand it's not a case of don't read books, don't research online, buy a click and you're done software and bam you know what you want.

...

also i've checked and i can't see the bit where he says he doesn't want to use all 3. only the bit he says he doesn't want to read books

[garyj]

Thanks for humouring me again tonight, you really are special.

Night night, over and out  :
 

[Adam P]

And now we finally agree that your posts are "a bit pointless", your wordds not mine, your evidence, not mine.

Now please shut up.

yes they are my words. are you able to have an adult conversation or do you need to make pointless claims to win an arguement? you want me to shut up? erm ok wow nice guy. i hope other members do read this and realise the same. this is condescending and patronising. so i make a point, gary doesn't like it, and i'm told to shut up. of course this is a community with free speech and not some place where one member seems to think he can tell other members what to do and rule them. i honestly cannot believe you posted that and i do hope other members will stand up for what's right.

3...
2...
1...

gary will go on about being eco blah blah blah.

then 3,2,1 other members come to garys aid, i'm told to leave it so gary can do it again in another thread, then the thread unfortunately gets locked.

sorry once again derek my intentions hopefully will show through as the advice is only meant to be just that. you asked for any thoughts so i gave them. sorry other members felt the need to massively derail this thread. next time i ask those members to email me (it's on one of my many sites) so we can leave this place decent and something other new members will be able to use and benefit from.

[happy mondays]

ah the old "i've been doing this for years what do you know argument". great one. this is always best as one thing you hear is how quickly technology is moving. you go to uni to learn computer science and by the time you're out everything you've learnt is old technology. this is clear from how you put any weight onto how valid your html and css is  (it's what everony used to do but not anymore as it's pointless) and don't seem to even understand the errors i've got as someone with experience would realise they're perfectly fine.

the simple truth is GOOGLE.CO.UK have 41 errors! google! you list this as an issue but GOOGLE have 41 errors on their home page alone! on their search results page i get 75 errors. to anyone who doesn't know this area just look at those errors and say does it really matter when the highest ranking website in the world doesn't even care?

The simple truth is I think dreamweaver is very good, so do many others, adobe creative suite is without doubt the industry leader, all design studios use it,  I dont pretend to know everything about websites, carpet cleaning or anything else Adam, I have done the course derek asked about, I liked the teacher, and advised him on my thoughts, if I build a website I make sure it looks right in all browsers and screen resolutions, I make sure it looks the same on mobile phone browsers, I make sure the css and html is valid this is what I was taught to do by someone that is paid to teach people like me you and any one else.

[Adam P]

The simple truth is I think dreamweaver is very good, so do many others, adobe creative suite is without doubt the industry leader, all design studios use it,  I dont pretend to know everything about websites, carpet cleaning or anything else Adam, I have done the course derek asked about, I liked the teacher, and advised him on my thoughts, if I build a website I make sure it looks right in all browsers and screen resolutions, I make sure it looks the same on mobile phone browsers, I make sure the css and html is valid this is what I was taught to do by someone that is paid to teach people like me you and any one else.

any me saying it's no good you've taken it personally? i just cannot understand your personal attacks at me. they're bad attacks to start with which just shows a huge lack of understanding of the industry from you and even more importantly are completely unrelated. i've done nothing to you before you start digging for as much dirt as possible. it's disgusting the way members are acting on this area recently. i would expect the owners don't want it to continue to be known as a place where ego's attack anyone with a different view. it's well known as that if you speak offline to people about this board and i've never believed them but it appears that way. you'll see in the morning how many others will jump in on it.

and this picture couldn't be more true right now...

http://blogs.technet.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Components-PostAttachments/00-02-99-89-79/wrong.jpg

[happy mondays]

Ive not attacked you neither has Gary, this is just a forum a place for debate, drop it eh.

[garry22]

Paul (Happy Mondays), or anyone else.

RE: Mobile sites.

The only mobile sites I have done have been Wordpress with a simple mobile plug in. they work well but I want to integrate the mobile stuff into my existing sites.

On "normal, static" HTML sites do you use a separate page AND a separate stylesheet?

My understanding is that you have some "switching code" that detects which device is being used and automatically shows the right page. Is that right?

[Adam P]

depends what you want. some sites want a completely different website for mobile versions, but i assume what you mean is just to make it look as it should on a mobile? if so then conditional comments is the way to go for dealing with that, which is just the same as dealing with internet explorer and firefox display issues on a pc as all you're doing is finding out what browser the user is using

example of what you'd have...

<!--[if IE 6]>
Special instructions for IE 6 here
<![endif]-->

[happy mondays]

Paul (Happy Mondays), or anyone else.

RE: Mobile sites.

The only mobile sites I have done have been Wordpress with a simple mobile plug in. they work well but I want to integrate the mobile stuff into my existing sites.

On "normal, static" HTML sites do you use a separate page AND a separate stylesheet?

My understanding is that you have some "switching code" that detects which device is being used and automatically shows the right page. Is that right?

Its all about just testing how they look, as gcs has said some browsers have bugs so some code is added to overcome it, firefox, ie7 - 8 and safari are normally ok with the same code, ie6 and below can be a pain. Some of the top high traffic sites have code added that will switch designed for mobiles so you are right, these have less heavy code so it loads faster, I always keep the file size low so have no need to do this.

GCS I am sorry about the adtrak comment last night that I thought had built one of your sites, i had added an S so looked at the code for www.greencleansolutions.co.uk

regards,

Paul

 

[John Higgins]

gary: sorry i didn't mean i'd get into an arguement with you, but i know others have done in past with me and i'm tired after the one with the other gary for the last few days.

robert: all you need is a decent browser like firefox, notepad++ and www.tizag.com or www.w3schools.com. that's  where i started and is where most professionals i know start. start with this and you wont learn any bad habits and will learn exactly what you need to know. if you want a decent site then but don't want to learn this stuff imo there is no short cut, you can't just run an easy to use program to make it just as you can't rent a rug doctor to get clean carpets. my suggestion is hire someone to do it for you. as derek is interested in getting a few sites together i'd suggest learning how to do it properly so he has the best chance of doing something decent.

mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.

Having had many argument with the above I must say he is totaly correct in what he says if the object of the excersie is to LEARN web design and programming then hand coding and learning your tags and css using notepad is the way to go

Coffee Cup Software do a Good Free Editor to use once you have learnt your tags and css in note pad

I would recommend you learn the above first and then do a course on photoshop and give dreamweaver a miss

[happy mondays]

But our local adult education centre doesnt run a course in notepad  but the dreamweaver one is very good, you get to learn html and css. Adam has never used DW properly so how can he comment on what it does and how good it is It is the industry leading wysiwyg software, if you disagree with this, let me know of a better one available.

[John Higgins]

What Im Saying is learn how to do by hand first then if you want to use  RAD tools use them
All wysiwyg Editors will eventually chuck out junk code and if you haven't learnt to do by hand
first you will definately struggle when a problem arises.

[Adam P]

don't know why i've completed ignored the bit about your son.

derek if your son has a keen interest in making websites then this is most definitely not the route he should go down and one i strongly recommend you don't go down either if you're looking to work with him on it.

your kid needs to learn to make sites properly which may take a bit of work but it's the only way to go if he wants to do it. the 2 sites i've listed couldn't be any simpler to follow and they do make it very easy to learn. he should follow them and then you can follow them with him and learn together a skill that'll actually be usable for a future job, where as if he and you learn to use dreamweaver you'll pick up bad habits, short cuts and not really learn to how properly make a website, so when you come across anything more advanced then changing background colour you could get stuck and have to learn to do it the proper way any way.

not saying you can't make sites with dreamweaver or a career, i'm sure if your son wanted he could set up his own business making sites for a couple hundred where he just uses templates and edits them but this isn't "making" a website and isn't what it sounds like he wants to do. i can't imagine any professional company that actually makes sites uses dreamweaver. have a look online for web developer jobs and you'll find often they'll say something like "html+css skills required (not dreamweaver)" i know for you this isn't a problem but something to consider for your son.

if your son wants some advice he's more then welcome to give me a call on my mobile 07923874555 or if he's a bit shy email me adam@cleansurrey.co.uk and i'll try to give advice, as well then in future if he gets stuck i'll always be available to help him out as i know how frustrating it can be when something isn't doing what it should be.