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derek west

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2010, 12:23:42 pm »
my sons got the thumbs up to do the course so as soon as ive spoke to the tutor we will be enrolling, cheers for all the info guys, fingers crossed we get something out of it.

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2010, 01:24:01 pm »
my sons got the thumbs up to do the course so as soon as ive spoke to the tutor we will be enrolling, cheers for all the info guys, fingers crossed we get something out of it.

Good news Derek, ive done a few courses over the years at Sir JD's and other places, you dont get any qualification or certificate with the dreamweaver one but it is very good if you put plenty of time in practising what Gill teaches you. It can end up ruling your life though if your not careful.

You'll be frying your brain with this and a fire and flood course eh  ;D

garry22

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2010, 05:40:49 pm »
Fancy Derek, a mere carpet cleaner, being allowed to use Dreamweaver!   ;D

Derek, you will need a twin monitor set up to see the program and the "published" site.

Ideally you'll have at least one wide screen one to display the program on (no sideways scrolling).

The good news is that your lad will probably pick the whole thing up in no time at all.

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2010, 02:14:48 pm »
dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning, but whatever what do i know as i want customers to respect my business but then i don't respect other businesses or something. go for it. £400 well spent ;)

garry22

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2010, 05:02:13 pm »
Derek,

This might not mean much now but may come in handy later.. http://layouts.ironmyers.com/

I stand to be corrected here but I think Dreamweaver has quite a few standard templates included anyway. Can any Dreamweaver owners let us know?

garry22

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2010, 04:00:39 pm »
Quote
dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning,

Adam,

Have you had some bad experiences with it?

I was looking at a Microsoft forum recently and some people seemed very anti Dreamweaver (I guess they would). Is their something that Derek should be aware of?

Garry

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2010, 04:52:52 pm »
the simplest way to explain is it what i said above.

"dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning".

go onto a forum for website building and say i need my carpets cleaned, many will say "i rented a rug doctor and it did a good job, don't bother getting it professional done as you can do it just as good yourself".

we all know rug doctors are terrible, but plenty in-experienced users think otherwise and will defend how good they are. i can't be bothered to get into another debate about this subject as plenty don't have the experience to know that dreamweaver is not a good choice for building sites so i'd be arguing and getting no where. respect the business and get advice from the pro's is my advice, don't go asking carpet cleaners for something they aren't trained in

Robert Watson

  • Posts: 1058
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2010, 05:01:53 pm »
Hi,
What would your choice be over Dreamweaver?
Rab.
The Kitchen Door Centre

garry22

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2010, 05:03:02 pm »
?

I just asked a question because I was interested in your opinion. No other reason.

Mike Halliday

  • Posts: 11578
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2010, 05:04:03 pm »
which programme would you suggest for website building?


and would knowledge of dreamweaver  be transferable onto another programme, like knowing how to driving a car would help learning how to drive a bus ( if that makes sense)
Mike Halliday.  www.henryhalliday.co.uk

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2010, 05:17:10 pm »
gary: sorry i didn't mean i'd get into an arguement with you, but i know others have done in past with me and i'm tired after the one with the other gary for the last few days.

robert: all you need is a decent browser like firefox, notepad++ and www.tizag.com or www.w3schools.com. that's  where i started and is where most professionals i know start. start with this and you wont learn any bad habits and will learn exactly what you need to know. if you want a decent site then but don't want to learn this stuff imo there is no short cut, you can't just run an easy to use program to make it just as you can't rent a rug doctor to get clean carpets. my suggestion is hire someone to do it for you. as derek is interested in getting a few sites together i'd suggest learning how to do it properly so he has the best chance of doing something decent.

mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.


garry22

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2010, 05:24:04 pm »
No problem Adam, I can see where you are coming from now.

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2010, 10:33:14 pm »
the simplest way to explain is it what i said above.

"dreamweaver for website building is the same as rug doctor is to carpet cleaning".

go onto a forum for website building and say i need my carpets cleaned, many will say "i rented a rug doctor and it did a good job, don't bother getting it professional done as you can do it just as good yourself".

we all know rug doctors are terrible, but plenty in-experienced users think otherwise and will defend how good they are. i can't be bothered to get into another debate about this subject as plenty don't have the experience to know that dreamweaver is not a good choice for building sites so i'd be arguing and getting no where. respect the business and get advice from the pro's is my advice, don't go asking carpet cleaners for something they aren't trained in
gary: sorry i didn't mean i'd get into an arguement with you, but i know others have done in past with me and i'm tired after the one with the other gary for the last few days.

robert: all you need is a decent browser like firefox, notepad++ and www.tizag.com or www.w3schools.com. that's  where i started and is where most professionals i know start. start with this and you wont learn any bad habits and will learn exactly what you need to know. if you want a decent site then but don't want to learn this stuff imo there is no short cut, you can't just run an easy to use program to make it just as you can't rent a rug doctor to get clean carpets. my suggestion is hire someone to do it for you. as derek is interested in getting a few sites together i'd suggest learning how to do it properly so he has the best chance of doing something decent.

mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.



Adam what on earth has the web browser firefox got to do with building a website, one thing only! Seeing what it views like in it... thats it.
 
Dreamweaver cannot be compared like you have posted. Adobe creative suite is the industry leading program,  DW is just a small part of it. Nothing else even comes close. If it does please let the forum know which program it is as the ones you have mentioned aren’t wysiwyg software, DW does the lot it works alongside fireworks flash and photoshop as well as using it as an ftp program.  Go and have a look at all the macs in web designers studios near to you, they will have adobe creative suite installed on every one and use it every day, so do the rest of them all over the world.
 
Do me a favour and look at your one of your own websites, www.greencleansolution.co.uk in a 800 x 600 screen resolution.... then look at the other www.cleansurrey.co.uk on a blackberry, enough said I think. Your posting about something that you seem to know very little about.
My point is.... if you know about html and css DW is without doubt the best wysiwyg program available.
 
The course you are trying to put down is very good even for someone with a basic knowledge of html, the tutor doesn’t allow the student to use of the hundreds of templates available with DW. She starts with the very basics and over the 10 weeks with a lot of homework and looking at many sites like w3 you have mentioned and buying and reading books, someone can build a basic good looking website that will look good and work in all screen resolutions, firefox and mobile browsers.  They will also learn how to make templates themselves.

Yes learn html and css from other sources, but when you do dreamweaver is a very powerful tool if you learn how to use it.

Regards,

Paul

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2010, 12:29:05 am »
meh i disagree. firefox has alot to do surely as you just quite clearly pointed out, it shows what it'll look like! imo this is important :)

yes on a small screen my site doesn't load as nice as on a larger screen but i planned for this. i didn't want to design for small screens as i know they're a tiny percentage now. i look at my stats and i know so few visitors have screens that small so i just don't care, just as i don't care for users of ie6. just as i decided i wanted a good unique design site for cleansurrey.co.uk. i made the choice knowing i may lose a tiny percentage of customers as they can't see the site fully (but those same customers will have similar issues with many other sites) but i'll impress far far more of the visitors that view my site. so often customers say how they chose my based on the site alone.

but so what? what on earth has this to do with my views on dreamweaver? i don't see how me making the choice to design to a standard i'm happy with as i don't believe i should continue to cater for a tiny minority has any relevance in this thread?. this is my opinion on design choice, nothing to do with the program i use to make a site. you could argue with me i should use a darker shade of green as on bright monitors it's hard to see some of the text, does that mean my opinion of dreamweaver is wrong?


Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2010, 01:13:16 am »
meh i disagree. firefox has alot to do surely as you just quite clearly pointed out, it shows what it'll look like! imo this is important :)

yes on a small screen my site doesn't load as nice as on a larger screen but i planned for this. i didn't want to design for small screens as i know they're a tiny percentage now. i look at my stats and i know so few visitors have screens that small so i just don't care, just as i don't care for users of ie6. just as i decided i wanted a good unique design site for cleansurrey.co.uk. i made the choice knowing i may lose a tiny percentage of customers as they can't see the site fully (but those same customers will have similar issues with many other sites) but i'll impress far far more of the visitors that view my site. so often customers say how they chose my based on the site alone.

but so what? what on earth has this to do with my views on dreamweaver? i don't see how me making the choice to design to a standard i'm happy with as i don't believe i should continue to cater for a tiny minority has any relevance in this thread?. this is my opinion on design choice, nothing to do with the program i use to make a site. you could argue with me i should use a darker shade of green as on bright monitors it's hard to see some of the text, does that mean my opinion of dreamweaver is wrong?



Adam your digging yourself in to one big hole, someone who knows what they are doing when building a website should make it look right in all browsers, screen resolutions and mobile devices. You are right not many people still use older browsers and 800 screens but have a look at the stats for iphones and blackberrys, I get a high % on mine, any site can very easily be made to look right in them all. I'm not going to argue with you, you can have your opinion on DW, my point is it is the industrys leading wysiwyg software. This is a fact and nothing else comes close. You very clearly have no experience in using it so why comment on it.

mike: depends on how you use dreamweaver. if you just use the coding part (forget it's exact name as never used the program properly) then you might as well use something like notepad++ but yes it'd be transferable, if you use the design bit (again unsure on exact name) then you aren't really learning anything worth much that you can transfer to another program as you're essentially just clicking around.



Yes as I guessed you have never used the program properly  ::)

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2010, 01:27:32 am »
did you make dreamweaveR? you seem to have taken such offense that i've said not to use it that you now have to roll your eyes at me? i admit i haven't used it too long so that everyone knows my opinion is based on limited use of the software (for good reasons) and you still rolls your eyes at me?

ok so just to confirm, bringing up my design choice had absolutely no relevance to this thread? it was just something to show that as i made in you opinion a bad choice with my design (which i think many customers disagree with) then this backs up your belief that i've made a bad choice by saying not to use dreamweaver?

no i haven't used it for much time as it's no good. others may think i'm incorrect as how can i know it's no good if i haven't used it for long periods of time, but go back to the rug doctor thing, i've never used one either, does mean my opinion of it being rubbish at cleaning carpets compared to alternative methods is invalid? of course not.

imo if you want clean carpets buy a professional machine and learn how to do it properly, or it pay someone who knows what they're doing to do it for you. if you want to learn how to make websites don't use a program that'll do it all for you. learn to make them properly or pay someone else to do it. don't take short cuts as you'll end up with many other problems.

notepad++, firefox, fireftp extension for firefox, xampp, photoshop a decent simple to follow website like tizag.com, and focus is all you need. it's harder but gives better results.

garyj

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2010, 01:28:06 am »
Don't set him off again, you'll never hear the end of it.

I think he means well, don't forget he's only 22 and thinks he knows everything.

I've had some news today that is really going to set him off  ;), glad I'm not him  :-X  

Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2010, 01:31:55 am »
Hey Adam,

Just done a bit of digging  ;D

Tell everyone who built the site you claim to have built all by yourself.. heres a clue from the meta tags..

<meta name="page-author" content="Adtrak Services Ltd (www.adtrak.co.uk)" />

And the html on the one you might have built yourself isnt to hot is it  ::) ::)

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleansurrey.co.uk%2F

Night  ;D

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #38 on: December 11, 2010, 01:35:01 am »
Don't set him off again, you'll never hear the end of it.

I think he means well, don't forget he's only 22 and thinks he knows everything.

I've had some news today that is really going to set him off  ;), glad I'm not him  :-X  

couldn't resist could you gary? i think i know everything? are you talking about me or you? look at what you've just claimed and realise you've just come onto a public forum, completely unprovoked (once again) and said about how I am the one who thinks i know everything. does anyone else not think this sounds extremely ironic?

to anyone unaware the mention of me being only 22 is of course another insult from gary. he doesn't think age has anything to do with it as mentioned in a previous thread, but has mentioned it on here to take the p once again.

Adam P

  • Posts: 1448
Re: dreamweaver
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2010, 01:40:17 am »
happy mondays: what is your problem? this thread is about dreamweaver and you go digging for dirt to make my views on dreamwaeaver some how invalid.

check again anyway there is no mention of adtrak. you've searched a completely different site and got muddled up. anyone with knowledge will look and see you're wrong but it's clear your intentions.

you've also listed invalid mark up but so what? you've listed errors which don't give any problems what so ever as they aren't anything to worry about. i could worry that it's not valid mark up but why? what's the problem with it being invalid? do you go onto the site and it crashes?

i know plenty of carpet cleaners can relate to this as they don't follow the rules to the book. i'm sure plenty use products that aren't wool safe certified on wool carpets. it's what happens. you don't need valid mark up. ohh i haven't used &amp; but instead just & oh naughty me. i guess my opinion of dreamweaver must be incorrect now. come on please roll your eyes at me now happy monday.

to others reading this post. wait until someone with experience comes into this thread and backs up my claims and proves what happy monday has just said to be very wrong before you judge please. he's been very foolish and negative and i'm unsure why. perhaps he's got an issue that as i disagreed with him he's now on a hate campaign against me, i could be wrong, but it's unprofessional at least.

also just thought i'd say sorry derek. i wanted to give advice as you asked but appears once again can't go a thread with gary jumping in to attack or someone derailing it for no reason.