[mlscontractcleaner]

After seeing some tv ads recently it got me thinking about the moral high ground most lads on here seem to take, publically at least, when it comes to the sticky subject of undercutting.

Now, I've seen two major brands stating on tv ads that they will charge less for their services than any other; Natwest for example saying that they'll beat any like for like quote by £25 for home insurance ......... a blatent case of undercutting in my books.

So, were it possible to secure a good, well paying contract by charging slightly less than the other guy would you do it?

Would you undercut the guy to take the job; providing there was room to charge less without cutting your own throat?

My opinion is, if we're being totally honest with ourselves, you're dam right we would ........shock, horror :

I was asked recently to offer a quote for a leading retail chain in Plymouth. They have 4 stores in Plymouth, two of which we secured. The two stores in question thought the last cleaner was shoddy with his work and charged too much. It would seem that because he's had these stores for years and years he'd become lazy and failed to look after them. I knew what he charged because the store managers told me, rightly or wrongly, and offered a quote a couple of pounds less which were accepted.

Of course the guy wasn't happy and told me so; i wouldn't expect anything less, but my opinion is that if the stores were happy with his work I wouldn't have got a look in, not just for the sake of a couple of pounds per month

So, if in every other type of bussiness it's quite acceptable to undercut what makes the cleaning industry so different?

I await the slating with interest

[prestige cleaners]

well i wouldnt have gone lower than him, if hes doing a bad job why would you charge less and do a better job? i would have actually gone higher and said at least you will be getting your windows cleaned properly. and he cant say anything to you then can he.

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

You generally put a price in without knowledge of any other bid, that is unless you ask.

The major difference would be for example with any utilities ie. Gas and electric. They happily undercut each other and sign you up for a year. After which you forget about what you are paying. After the year, the prices revert from the 'offer' to 'standard'. That is where they make their money from the moment the year ends to the time you change to another supplier.

[formb]

There is only one winner in a price war and it aint going to be you.

Think on.

[dazmond]

i for one would not go in cheaper than MY own price for  the job!ive never knowingly undercut any fellow window cleaner in 16 years.

from my experience i dont need to.i have plenty of work.i dont like to make enemies with anybody in my life especially not fellow window cleaners.

i have had a few threats on the phone many years ago but not because of undercutting!no need to IMO!


REGARDS

DAZMOND

[mlscontractcleaner]

There's not going to be a price war as his work was crap so even if he offered to clean them at a reduced rate they wouldn't take him back.

My main argument is that if undercutting goes on in every other business what makes us window cleaners adopt such a moral high ground when the subject is raised; like it's beneath us?

[dazmond]

because there is no need to undercut as most custies dont base their decision on price alone!maybe they do a bit more on commercial but they still want you to do a good job!!

ive never needed to undercut.ive never been that desperate to get the work.

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

To answer your question, it shouldn't be a problem. However, it is more of a personal business next to banks and utilities. The owners of npower dont see the owners of British Gas in the street, they are faceless companies. we see the consequences of loosing customers and the bloke who 'nicked' them.

I always tell my customers, if the subject comes up, that I'm not worried if they take the lower offer and if they ever wish to come back they are welcome. I trade on quality not price. However when I buy Gas and Electric I buy on price alone.

There are loads setting up here and many have canvassed my customers, to date my losses are absolute minimal, maybe 2-3. In fact the more that set up and underprice the better for me in the long run. They wont trade for long and people get used to having their windows cleaned, when their underpriced window cleaner doesn't turn up they ask me. Shocked at paying double I explain that clearly the other windy couldn't make it pay and this is the correct price.

Educate your customers, thats my motto.

[Londoner]

There is a world of difference between fair competition and getting shafted by somebody who is slagging it while on benefits. It used to be the beer and fAgs brigade but job losses and redundancy has created a world in which window cleaning is the obvious source for cash in hand no questions asked money for blokes who ( while I have every sympathy with their situation) ain't going to undercut  me on the basis that they can afford to do it for less because their rent/mortgage is being paid, they don't pay tax and their kids get free school dinners etc.

[bobby p]

window cleaning is one of the few personal trades left ,from a bygone era . when decency was all .     most of the others have gone-the knife sharpener, the milkman,etc and these were men who didnt undercut ,just earnt an honest living

 these modern ghouls selling electricity or gas  arent men of honour ,its all about the bottom line to them

[formb]

Insurance companies are going bust all over the place.

Don't know of many bust window cleaners.........

.......and as for the Gas companies, they are basically legalised con artists who sit on OUR chuffing money (around £1BN I think) just on overcharges. They sign you up on their new rate and then in six months time when they have a new offer on it's "sorry new customers only" at which time you find you are in a contract with no way out and you are being overcharged anyway. If you want to take business ethics pointers from thieving scum like them then that's your call.

I will never intentionally undercut anyone. I have a pricing structure, if it works out more than a competitor then I'm happy to let him give it his best shot. I know my prices are fair.
 

[david watts]

i cant run my m3 by undercutting and have to charge a lot to make up for all the crap
i underpriced when starting

[bluez]

Undercutting imo is identifing a competitors clients and prices and approaching the clients with a lower price in an effort to tempt them away from the competitor.

Being cheaper than your competitor is not undercutting, offering a price in competition to a competitor is not undercutting.

Its business not friendness.

[Paul Coleman]

There's not going to be a price war as his work was crap so even if he offered to clean them at a reduced rate they wouldn't take him back.

My main argument is that if undercutting goes on in every other business what makes us window cleaners adopt such a moral high ground when the subject is raised; like it's beneath us?

I think one of the issues is that window cleaners often know each other within an area and mostly get along OK - or at the minimum, manage a peaceful co-existence.  I live next to a town centre.  It's probably the largest concentration of small commercial work for a few miles around.  I've felt tempted to go in and offer quotations but then I realised that I know most of the guys who work the shops.  In the end I decided that I would rather it all stay sweet.  Ironically this has paid off over the years in ways that I wouldn't have expected since I went with WFP.  I sub work from one of the guys and it nets me an average of around £150 a month.  A couple of them I occasionally provide holiday cover for.  Most of it is out of hours so earns me a bit extra.  On the one shop that I do clean, one of the guys covers my holidays.  Also, because they don't bother much with domestic, I've had the odd house passed my way.  Some of thew guys are more involved with general cleaning and I managed to provide a couple of leads for them.
Maybe that's part of why undercutting doesn't happen so much with W/Cs.  It usually works better if you develop a more positive relationship with others in the trade.  Of course there will always be the "my patch" bullies but I've never had any trouble with this.  Patches seem to be more of a northern thing anyway.

[dai]

Far too much sentiment in this business, and to what purpose?
If I knew that someone was doing a job that took him a day, and he was charging £300, I would be quite happy to take on that job for £200., that for me is a very fair days wage.
I used to do a lot of netting for bass, I took a guy under my wing, showed him where to fish, and the exact stage of the tide when the fish would be there, I taught him in weeks what it had taken me a lifetime to learn.
I went to my spot one morning at 5am, the bugger had got his own nets, and was there with his brother before me. LESSON LEARNED. Use all your experience and guile to look after your family, and stop worrying about anyone else, and for goodness sake stop worrying about being liked by others, if they like you OK, if they don't it's their problem.

[AuRavelling79]

If I am asked to quote then I quote.

Where I live one of the "franchisers" is having issues with one or two of his franchisees - one of whom has disappeared. So the franchiser is trying to cover his work with other franchisees - he's grown too big and quality is suffering.

So six months ago a lady comes to me in the street where I clean three houses and a flat, told me her w/c was unreliable and would I quote for her and two neighbours. I did and went in at my price on the basis that I would have a group of 6 houses and a flat with not a single van move.

They have been reliable custy's and although I now know the previous franchisee "guys" were charging more I am happy with what I charge.

I have just today picked up another three flats ex this franchisee on a recommend from the same lady.

But if it was one of the local "solid" guys - not a doley, not a thug, not a customer bully or a "my patch" boy then I would generally steer clear and keep things sweet.

But a large commercial quote that I've canvassed for or been asked to quote for then I'll give it my best shot. Actually -  if anyone asks me to quote then I quote. (If I get the whiff of troublesome custy or lowest price merchant then I'm not interested.)

[mlscontractcleaner]

At least there seems to be a couple of lads on here running a business for the good of their family and not to make friends :

Business is business and if someone doesn't look after a good, well paying contract they deserve to loose it; and if I can comfortably do it for a bit less than they are I'll take it ......... I'll feel bad for them when I'm spending this Christmas in the Caribbean