[Ian Lancaster]

I would like to clarify my position in these debates (this and the 'flat roof' thread) as we seem to be digressing.

Sunshine Cleaning:  I am not, as you say, 'getting in a flap'.  I am concerned that the trend is towards blindly accepting whatever H&S declare to be right.  There are many of us who do not automatically agree with them, and for very good reasons.

You imply that we do it the way we do 'because that's the way it has always been done' - not true.  Speaking for myself I do it the way I do because I have 40 years experience of ladder work, I have developed and practised my own safety regime in that time and I believe in what I do.

I will never accept that someone without my experience has the right to tell me I am wrong, any more than I would attempt to impose my ideas on anyone else in disregard of their knowledge and experience.

I believe that the key to safety is personal responsibility, and the constant imposition of ever more intricate directives erodes that responsibility to the point that people come to believe that accidents are always 'someone else's fault'.  "If you do what the H&S tell you and you still have an accident, it must be because the instructions were wrong"

A FALL FROM A LADDER IS ALWAYS THE FAULT OF THE LADDER USER, NOT THE LADDER

I expect an avalanche of disagreement to that statement, but if you think about it properly it is incontrovertible.

If you can accept my statement as above, then it follows that the safety of the ladder user is his responsibility, and his alone.

What the ladder user needs to achieve that is advice and direction and the ability to THINK FOR HIMSELF  to make a proper, informed decision as to the way to ensure his safety.

What do we call this? 

A RISK ASSESSMENT

How the ladder user reaches his decision is the result of a myriad of mini choices.  It is not a simple distillation of directives (Do this - don't do that etc) every situation is unique and as such requires a unique solution.

Take away from the ladder user the abililty or desire to formulate that solution and you have an infinity of accidents waiting to happen.

[Gleaming windows]

I guess some people Ian dont trust their own judgement.

If a shiner rang me up and asked me how he ought to set his ladders up in a given situation my first reply would be 'Well, you're the one on site, what do you think?'

Its no use believing someone sat in an office (particularly someone with limited or no expereince) is in a better position to dictate how something should be done when thy can't even see the situation or assess it.

Using ladders safely isnt something that is done using a set formula, EVERY new ladder movement brings a new set of challenges. And the only person who can decide how to manage that situation is the person on site using the things.

[luther1]

Loads of people fall of a horse and break something. Ban horses i say!

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Sunshine that page is advert none of those cases can open on that page. Why are you persisting to knock all my posts. In future I will just ignore your post. I feel you have a axe to grind so have fun.

Wizard.
I'm sorry you are offended by my post, I simply wanted to see if SA had any legislation regarding H&S and it does. Scroll down to Company Law. It's not as tough as ours but for eg an accident needs reporting if there are 14 days missed work. I think ours is a 3 day limitation.

Please feel free to ignore, however, I tend to check out sweeping statements for myself.

Ian.
I'm sorry to have offended you too. However the problem with Risk Assessments is that people often DONT make informed decisions. That is the reason some 'committees' hire scaffold to change a light bulb and some seasoned professionals stick with their own way of doing things and in my experience, can't always put together a completed risk assessment.
I think everyone should be humble enough to at least consider other people's opinion even if they don't have the vast amount of experience we do.

As with wizard, please feel free to ignore any comment I make.

Stuart

[Ian Lancaster]

Sunshine that page is advert none of those cases can open on that page. Why are you persisting to knock all my posts. In future I will just ignore your post. I feel you have a axe to grind so have fun.

Wizard.
I'm sorry you are offended by my post, I simply wanted to see if SA had any legislation regarding H&S and it does. Scroll down to Company Law. It's not as tough as ours but for eg an accident needs reporting if there are 14 days missed work. I think ours is a 3 day limitation.

Please feel free to ignore, however, I tend to check out sweeping statements for myself.

Ian.
I'm sorry to have offended you too. However the problem with Risk Assessments is that people often DONT make informed decisions. That is the reason some 'committees' hire scaffold to change a light bulb and some seasoned professionals stick with their own way of doing things and in my experience, can't always put together a completed risk assessment.
I think everyone should be humble enough to at least consider other people's opinion even if they don't have the vast amount of experience we do.

As with wizard, please feel free to ignore any comment I make.

Stuart

Exactly my point - and that includes H&S, and yet I believe H&S still ignore the value of the window cleaners ladder, insisting that ladder training take place using unsuitable (in my opinion) general purpose open ended ladders.

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Your right Ian, you would expect that after consultation best practice could be agreed upon. It seems that with ladder use ACP is not written down.

[Gleaming windows]

WHEN, WHAT, HOW

Q: When does a person decide to become a Safety Manager?
A: When he realizes he doesn't have the charisma to be an undertaker.

Q: What do safety Managers use for birth control?
A: Their personalities

Q: How can you tell an extroverted safety Manager?
A: When he talks to you, he looks at your safety shoes instead of his own

TWO KINDS

There are two kinds of Safety Guys, those that know the law and those that know the judge.

Top

“Safety Managers: persons who write a 10,000 word document and call it a brief.”

-- Franz Kafka

Any time a Safety Manager is seen but not heard, it’s a shame to wake him.

WORD PROCESSOR

Have you heard about the Safety Managers’ word processor?

No matter what font you select, everything comes out in fine print.

Top

WINE CELLAR

What do you get if you put 100 Safety Managers in your basement?

A whine cellar.

PREGNANT

How does a pregnant woman know she is carrying a future Safety Manager?

She has an extreme craving for baloney.

How many Safety Managers can you place on the point of a needle?

Ten, if you make them stand on their heads.

Top

How many Safety Managers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

One: the Safety Manager holds it while the rest of the world revolves around him.

What do Safety Managers and sperm have in common?

Only one in two million ever does anything worthwhile.

What do you call a Safety Manager gone bad?

A Politician

What do you get when you cross a librarian with a Safety Manager?

All the information you need—but you can’t understand a word of it.

Top

What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a Safety Manager?

An offer you can't understand.

What is the definition of a Safety Manager?

A mouth with a life-support system.

What's the difference between a Safety Manager and a vampire?

Vampires only suck blood at night.

What’s the difference between a Safety Manager and a boxing referee?

A boxing referee doesn’t get paid extra for a longer fight.

What’s the difference between God and a Safety Manager?

God doesn’t think he’s a Safety Manager.

Top

Why are Safety Managers like nuclear weapons?

If one side has one, the other side has to get one.

Once launched during a campaign, they can rarely be recalled.

And when they land, they screw up everything forever.

BULLETIN
The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has determined that the maximum safe load capacity on my rear end is two persons at one time, unless I install handrails or safety straps. As you have arrived sixth in line to ride my rear end today, please take a number and wait your turn.
Thank you!

Police visit

A police safety officer was visiting a primary school in a particularly tough area of Glasgow.

"Why shouldn't you touch the oven door or the kettle ?" he asked the assembled class.

A young girls hand shot into the air.

"Because you might leave fingerprints" she answered.

Top

Costume Party
 A safety officer went to a costume party with a girl on his back. "What are you supposed to be?" the host asked. "I'm a snail," the safety officer replied. The host raised his eyebrows. "How can you be a snail when all you've got is that girl on your back?" "That's not a girl," the safety officer replied. "That's Michelle."

Fire Drill
A voice on the office loudspeaker announced:

"We will be testing the speaker system to make sure it will work properly in case of emergency."

My confidence in this safety precaution faded when the voice added:

"If you are unable to hear this announcement, please contact us."

Road map
Q: How do you drive a Safety Officer completely insane?
A: Tie him to a chair, stand in front of him, and fold up a road map the wrong way.

Top

Phonetic Alphabets
While working as a health and safety officer, I arrived at an accident scene, and the safety manager arrived just behind me. As I parked the car, I heard a security guard on the intercom using the radio phonetic alphabet to alert the site manager.
"Be aware that the Hotel Alpha Sierra Oscar has arrived," he said.
I approached the security guard, looked him in the eye and said,
"You might be surprised to know that some of the Hotel Alpha Sierra Oscar’s can Sierra Papa Echo Lima Lima."

Bonus
Our company offers a bonus award for employee ideas that improve safety, quality or performance. A co-worker noticed there was a power switch suspended 16 feet over our machinery. He suggested that a chain be attached to the switch, allowing it to be pulled for quick shut-off in an emergency.
The suggestion went through channels and was rejected. One reason given was that "the chain might be pushed up one day, accidentally turning the power switch on."

Top

COSHH A woman was killed from chlorine gas poisoning when she mixed Harpic and Domestos together in a confined space. She had inadvertently created the same conditions as experienced by the soldiers during a gas attack in the trenches of the First World War

Dentist The cap of a man’s tooth fell out so he phoned the dentist to ask if it could be replaced.
“Yes,” said the dentist, “but it will cost you £75.”
“No way,” said the man and went off to buy a 50p tube of superglue and stuck the cap back carefully. He woke up in hospital. Superglue contains a cyanide chemical.

[wizard]

Sunshine I lived in South Africa for 26 tears of whichI spent 4 months is hospital in plaster beleive me there is no H & S maybe on paper but not in true life Try sueing some one you would 250 thousand grand to walk into court and lawers may not work for a % Cash only.

Thanks Matt loved the funnys the Mechell was the best.

[Sunshine/Cleaning]

Sunshine I lived in South Africa for 26 tears of whichI spent 4 months is hospital in plaster beleive me there is no H & S maybe on paper but not in true life Try sueing some one you would 250 thousand grand to walk into court and lawers may not work for a % Cash only.

Thanks Matt loved the funnys the Mechell was the best.

Fair enough, sorry to offend. I guess there is a difference between legislating and actual implementing. It which is what the UK seems best at. Other EU countries don't seem to tie themselves up in knots simply interpreting like we do.