[H2GoKent]

Please tell me this is a joke.

Sadly not, she wasn't carrying tennis balls, or hula hoops. But the point is if you have a crash stuff that's not strapped down will try and carry on travelling at your previous speed unless there's something to stop it.

[Frankybadboy]

great reading 3 pages from a load of expert of nothing

[Pope vader]

i am disgusted at that comment franky, i will have you know i have a phd in useless facts,  and am allowed to use Kia (know it all) after my name, its not a bachelor of science, but i am working to wards that 

[dave.e]

i am disgusted at that comment franky, i will have you know i have a phd in useless facts,  and am allowed to use Kia (know it all) after my name, its not a bachelor of science, but i am working to wards that 

I have made a phone call to swintons today to go though a quote i did on line last night on line the price was £361.25 and thats on a vivaro 57 plate with 9years no claims. when i spoke to a guy today he did not ask about the tank and he said he could not guarantee the price until it went to the under righter so i am waiting for a phone call back at 6.45pm today so will let every body know if there's any problems regarding the 650lt tank i have. because this insurance lark is really hacking me off now why should we have to pay more just because we fit the systems ourself s

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

I have put a 400 ltr tank in the back of my pickup which almost fills the entire  load area,  with  about 8" either side of tank after wheel arches   and 2" gap at the back were the tailgate is ,     This is placed on top of some carpet underlay and  when filled does'nt move at all ,   

Just wondering if i should secure this with a ratchet strap to be extra safe ,  or should it be bolted down for insurance purposes ,  Currently i have not informed insurance as the tank is not a permanent fixture as i will take it out at weekends or other times  when needed .     
                                                                                                   MIKE

I can't be bothered reading all the "engineering expert's" comments but- I've had a strapped in 400ltr tank on the go for 7.5 years without a problem. Like yours, it's butted up to the bulkhead & also packed out at the sides so it can gather no momentum (that bit is important )

The straps are secured to the manufacturers factory anchor points so I have made no modifications & the tank is NOT a permanent fixture. I also have no problem with insurance!

[H2GoKent]

great reading 3 pages from a load of expert of nothing

Doesn't that describe exactly the experience of reading most posts on this forum
 

[Dave Willis]

Just renewed my insurance today. Went through the usual questions about convictions and health etc. Then they asked had the van been modified?
Yes, I said, it has a water tank bolted in the back.
That's not a modification the guy said.
I wasn't going to argue and paid my £399 over the phone.

[dave.e]

Just renewed my insurance today. Went through the usual questions about convictions and health etc. Then they asked had the van been modified?
Yes, I said, it has a water tank bolted in the back.
That's not a modification the guy said.
I wasn't going to argue and paid my £399 over the phone.

what insurance company was that mate

[mikecam]

I can't be bothered reading all the "engineering expert's" comments but-

This tells me you already have !!! 

[barry mallett]

what you all need to do is make sure you always crash at the end of the day when  your tank is empty . thats what i always do

[dave.e]

what you all need to do is make sure you always crash at the end of the day when  your tank is empty . thats what i always do

[Dave Willis]

Just renewed my insurance today. Went through the usual questions about convictions and health etc. Then they asked had the van been modified?
Yes, I said, it has a water tank bolted in the back.
That's not a modification the guy said.
I wasn't going to argue and paid my £399 over the phone.

what insurance company was that mate

Onesure

[dave.e]

Just renewed my insurance today. Went through the usual questions about convictions and health etc. Then they asked had the van been modified?
Yes, I said, it has a water tank bolted in the back.
That's not a modification the guy said.
I wasn't going to argue and paid my £399 over the phone.

what insurance company was that mate

Onesure

thanks mate

[alanwilson]

I got bored halfway down this thread but could everyone here who doesn't know how to calculate g-forces, shear stresses etc please stop quoting made up figures.

If you really want to know how to work it out then its simple.

F=ma
force= mass (kg) x acceleration (yes, deceleration is acceleration in the opposite direction)
force (measured in Newtons) = mass (lets say 400kg for simple numbers) x acceleration  - this is not a simple arbitrary number.  To calculate this you need to know how quickly the vehicle will stop bearing in mind the front of a vehicle is a crumple zone designed to cushion the blow).

You want to know how to calculate this then start a new thread and I'll go into the maths involved.

Bottom line is this - eyelets are NOT designed to take large loads like a 400 ltr tank!

If you want to stay on the safe side you need to use a securely fitted restraint. - make your own eyelets for the 2 rear corners of the tank, 10mm plate steel on the underside, 10mm 40x40 angle iron on top, bolt together with M12 heat treated steel bolts (one per eyelet is enough) and strap the tank through them and through the baffles of the tank.  A 10ton or even a 20ton ratchet strap is only going to be £10 or so.  To secure the ratchet strap to the angle iron all you need to do is centre drill the angle iron on the vertical plane with a 12mm drill bit.

Total load capacity will be limited by whatever ratchet strap you use (I think a 10ton strap has a short load rating of about 25ton).

Total cost around £40

Just make sure the plates are put over and under the chassis legs and the plates should be 3 inch x 3inchor larger.

[[GQC] Tim]

Two quality posts. Thank you. Been a long time since I had physics classes, but that seems right.

[L.J.Thorpe]

if anybody is still interested i have a T plate scudo with a diy set up 650 ltr bunded ibc strapped down with 2 10 ton straps
the van cost 1500 in 2007
if any company wants to pay me 3k for a new van and tank they can gladly crash my scudo into a wall with a full tank and film it to see what happens

[Bushboy]

ill second that 

[alanwilson]

no Dave actually it wasn't aimed at you - obviously you've worked out the maths.

as for giving people a false sense of security its not really, http://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=127 you'll get the standardised shear/tensile capacities.  I should have specified stainless steel bolts - my apologies.

as for the plates I'm not sure but we used a lot less in designing door assys and cowling brackets (which as you know are subject to cyclic motion and therefore more repetitive shear stresses).

As for guessing the numbers?  No, not really, if that were the case I'd have to ask you never to set foot on an Airbus A320/319 as the very critical components that I made up the numbers for are the same components that keep them flying. 

But thats just me, I'm open to a frank exchange but guessing isn't in my script - if I knew how to use subscripts etc on a PC then I would, not for your benefit as I reckon you have some prior knowledge of statics, strengths, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics etc, so my guess is you're an Engineer too.  Oh and I like it when people quote differentiation/integration to me, gets me all nostalgic!

Answers on a postcard to

Alan Wilson
Former Stress(ed) Engineer
Now cleaning windows and actually enjoying life again.