[dave f]

on my insurance quote and ithink most they ask any modifications to your vehicle surley a fitted tank is a modification or am i missing some thing so if you aint informed your insurance then technicly if you have a bump they find out you have not informed them they may not pay out

[Pope vader]

a fitted tank, is something that can not be removed, where as a tank strapped down using the vans hooks, is not a mod as can be removed

[g.brookes]

having a debate about it on here is daft because all insurers have slightly different t +c's.  best thing is to speak to your insurer, not another window cleaner.  if you are scared that your insurer may tell you something you dont wanna know, think about whatd happen if you actually crashed

[pristinewindows]

I got an Ionics tank they bolt thru the chassis.

[H2GoKent]

in a 30mph crash you pull 30g's or more so 400 litres will weight in at approx. 12 tons so make sure it a very strong strap.

The 30gs figure would apply if the vehicle struck something at 30 mph and came to an instant stop, this is almost impossible if you strike another vehicle at 30mph then both vehicles absorb some of the force of the blow.

95% of crashes occur at less than 30mph.

Having said all this I would use two 5tonne straps if I were you! 

[dave.e]

.... do it properly otherwise you'll have an accident which will rocket insurance cover when they have to pay out for your injuries....

I dont think that will be the result.  They will just not pay out at all.  If you are carrying equipment not properly secured, they will wriggle out of any liability (quite rightly - why should I pay extra insurance for idiots who dont take proper care?)

this is a bit over the top don't you think? everybody to there own that's what i say just because they do not have pro systems fitted don't make them idiots END OFF.

[H2GoKent]

There has been an attempt on the part of system sellers to suggest that a diy system of any sort is inferior to a bought system, both in function and safety. This isn't always true

Really a lot of it is just good sales technique, an attempt to create a need where one doesn't always exist. Or to create an aspirational brand out of what is really a fairly simple idea, that actually if you a small amount of technical knowledge you can do for yourself.

But what else would we expect them to say?

[Mike #1]

A transport company carrying large heavy loads secure their loads with ratchet straps , far heavier loads than 400 kg of water , loads which are not modifications or permanent fixtures to the vehicle .

                                           MIKE

[Pope vader]

surely a trolly and 11 containers is more dangerous than a tank

[L.J.Thorpe]

a fitted tank, is something that can not be removed, where as a tank strapped down using the vans hooks, is not a mod as can be removed

this is exactly right and is the key issue in this
if the tank can be easily removed it is NOT a modification,it is simply cargo
if you put it in a cage it is a modification and the insurance company will treat it as such

[mikecam]

I have put a 400 ltr tank in the back of my pickup which almost fills the entire  load area,  with  about 8" either side of tank after wheel arches   and 2" gap at the back were the tailgate is ,     This is placed on top of some carpet underlay and  when filled does'nt move at all ,   

Just wondering if i should secure this with a ratchet strap to be extra safe ,  or should it be bolted down for insurance purposes ,  Currently i have not informed insurance as the tank is not a permanent fixture as i will take it out at weekends or other times  when needed .     
                                                                                                   MIKE

It does not need bolting down for insurance purposes. I should however be properley secured with appropriate restraints to comply with the law. Any load needs to be secured, and that is the criteria you need to fulfill. End of story.

[H2GoKent]

The 30gs figure would apply if the vehicle struck something at 30 mph and came to an instant stop, this is almost impossible if you strike another vehicle at 30mph then both vehicles absorb some of the force of the blow.

95% of crashes occur at less than 30mph.

Having said all this I would use two 5tonne straps if I were you! 

No, an instant stop would be infinite G not 30G.

Stop something from 30mph to zero in about a foot and you'll get 30G. 

Yes I realise the force would be infinite to stop in an instant. I guess I meant in an impossibly small distance (ie a foot.) You would not stop in a foot even if you did hit something at 30. Even if you hit an immovable object (if one could possibly exist) you would not stop within a foot, vehicles have crumple zones and the like to lessen the stopping speed in an accident to protect the driver. Do the physics and the math and you will realise you're wrong.

[H2GoKent]

There is a good video on the web about what happens to an unsecured load in a crash at 30, (it's not a water tank sales video) some bricks and cones and the like, quite shocking actually. 

A know of a woman locally whose child was killed because she had a car full of sports stuff and she crashed, you must at least strap things down.
Even water tubs, I imagine a 25 litre tub flying through the air could break your neck!

[[GQC] Tim]

Please tell me this is a joke.

[mikecam]

Please tell me this is a joke.

Which mate, driving with an unsecured tank or the bullpoop about newtons of force and mph and gravity or summat?

[mikecam]

Please tell me what I'm missing.

Tanks need airbags then?

[KS Cleaning]

I think the argument here is,surely if your tank is bolted to the floor it is safer,ok it is seen as a modifcation but insurance companies need to take a good hard look at themselves,they are as good as EXTORTING money out of people that put safety first and who are at less risk of serious injury should an accident happen.They should be giving us incentives to have our systems professionaly fitted not punishing us.

[mikecam]

I think the argument here is............

I didn't think there was an argument. He asked if his tank needs to be secured, or bolted for insurance purposes.
It needs securing to comply with the law. If he fits it into his vehicle by means of bolts/frames then he needs to notify his insurance company as its a modification to the vehicle. Whats there to argue about?

[KS Cleaning]

I am posting my opinion on the subject after reading all the posts,not to you personally.My opening sentence was just a figure of speech

[H2GoKent]

Please tell me what I'm missing.

Tanks need airbags then?

I said 'in an instant' which I meant as a figure of speech and admitted straight away was inaccurate.
Other than that I stand by my opinions, which by the way included one that the tank should be strapped to 10 tonnes.

Airbags on cars are set to deploy in crashes where the decelaration is greater than 15mph and will sometimes deploy at even lower speeds.
They are designed to deploy at 7g not 60g. People frequently die after experiencing 70g, arteries can tear etc.
I was a passenger in a crash where we hit a stationary vehicle with it's handbrake on at around 20mph after frantic braking; both vehicles were displaced by more than a foot. It is near impossible to hit another vehicle and not experience movement, so to stop in a foot (or even 1.0022 feet) is actually quite tricky, see Newton's Third Law.

So I guess what you're missing is accurate data.