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Jakey boy

  • Posts: 869
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2011, 05:14:58 pm »
Good luck Jakey Boy

Cos your gonna need it!!!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D

you lot crack me up, needless to say I'm glad a few of you are on my side, health and saftey is a load of crap, it's got worse and worse over the years, at the end of the day, it's YOUR reaponsibility to keep safe, am I'm not being funny but what could go wrong when your ladder is being footed, and you work in sensible conditions e.g. Low wind, dry day etc. It's no different to being at a 2nd floor window, and I use a very good set of treble ladders that ate sturdy and made to be used at heights of 30ft, so someone tell me why they make ladders this high if it's illeagel/dangerous. There is no answer it's YOU that is either safe/unsafe, maybe I'm just a young man in old shoes! My dad an his dad would be howling at the people on here moaning about it, in there day they used to be uo there on rotten wooden ladders! With no problems! Rant over... Just be safe by being respectful of the weather, ladder, angles and surface type, and you'll all be fine, no to mention having someone foot the ladder! 

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2011, 06:45:11 pm »
I am not trying to stop you or blame you. You do what you want, i do what i want, but its keeping up with the law that you claim you do. I dont know how you do that or what you know, but if you are happy, get on with it, fine by me, we are all just giving our opinion. I have advised our local window cleaner where our business premises are, and he did accept the ladder inspection & logging system, but doesnt secure or do a written risk assesment. Fine by me, at least he knows the law now, even though he doesnt follow most of it. He is a friend of mine, and thats why i told him, because his 16 year old grandson and another 30 year old lad works for him.

idealrob

Bryan_Dolby

  • Posts: 330
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2011, 07:54:58 pm »
Hi

You cannot work above 9 meters with ladders  without a risk assesment

HSE law

If caught or death

Fine up to £20.000
prison sentence

Sorry

Bryan
Bryan Dolby
( Member F.W.C.)
My opinons are my own and nothing to do with the federation of window cleaners

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: 3rd floor gutters and ladders
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2011, 08:41:19 pm »
Chaps

Because in this day and age where everything is risk assessed H&S would
be looking at how the job was undertaken and if it was carried out in the safest manner if anyone was to become seriously injured ie falling from above 3rd floor height. You would then be liable(if you lived)Can you honestly say using a ladder is a safe option considering how many times the ladder has to be moved and the use of tools and buckets even with the use of harnesses.We all know how unstable ladders are at that height.
A cherry picker or vacuum is what should be used,in my opinion.

Jay


If all other options have been ruled out you CAN use ladders, as long as they are used in guidance to HSE.
Saying that, I am sure I read somewhere that the maximum height for using ladders is 9 metres.
Also can someone tell me where they would fix the fall arrest lanyard???



Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2011, 08:50:37 pm »
Good luck Jakey Boy

Cos your gonna need it!!!!!!

 ;D ;D ;D

you lot crack me up, needless to say I'm glad a few of you are on my side, health and saftey is a load of crap, it's got worse and worse over the years, at the end of the day, it's YOUR reaponsibility to keep safe, am I'm not being funny but what could go wrong when your ladder is being footed, and you work in sensible conditions e.g. Low wind, dry day etc. It's no different to being at a 2nd floor window, and I use a very good set of treble ladders that ate sturdy and made to be used at heights of 30ft, so someone tell me why they make ladders this high if it's illeagel/dangerous. There is no answer it's YOU that is either safe/unsafe, maybe I'm just a young man in old shoes! My dad an his dad would be howling at the people on here moaning about it, in there day they used to be uo there on rotten wooden ladders! With no problems! Rant over... Just be safe by being respectful of the weather, ladder, angles and surface type, and you'll all be fine, no to mention having someone foot the ladder! 


It might be getting worse and worse but its no excuse to break the law is it?
Also I see you said you use tripple ladders, are these tripple ladders A frame?
People on here will tell me I am talking crap, but A frame ladders ARE specifically designed for window cleaning, and the safest ladders to use are ones that are designed for the task in hand, so there for A frame ladders are the safest ladders for window cleaning. How many Trad guys use A frames, I don't just mean single pointers but double pointers(A frame).



Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

VSP Home Care

  • Posts: 622
Re: 3rd floor gutters and ladders
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2011, 08:57:26 pm »
Chaps

Because in this day and age where everything is risk assessed H&S would
be looking at how the job was undertaken and if it was carried out in the safest manner if anyone was to become seriously injured ie falling from above 3rd floor height. You would then be liable(if you lived)Can you honestly say using a ladder is a safe option considering how many times the ladder has to be moved and the use of tools and buckets even with the use of harnesses.We all know how unstable ladders are at that height.
A cherry picker or vacuum is what should be used,in my opinion.

Jay


If all other options have been ruled out you CAN use ladders, as long as they are used in guidance to HSE.
Saying that, I am sure I read somewhere that the maximum height for using ladders is 9 metres.
Also can someone tell me where they would fix the fall arrest lanyard???



Matt

If there is someone footing the ladder then you can pass your rope down through the second rung from the top, then your mate picks it up and passes it through the second rung at the bottom and clamps it to the third.

Better still stick a bolt in the wall to and secure your ladder to that as well.

I recently had a Sky man wake me up drilling a hole in the wall on a Sunday morning at 8:30.  He went up on his own over 28 foot and on to the roof.

Sapphire Window Cleaning

  • Posts: 2942
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2011, 09:06:54 pm »
VSP I wouldn't class attaching the fall arrest to the ladders as safe, only because what would happen if the ladders moved laterally?
The ladders come down with the operative.
The safest option would be to drill into the wall and insert an anchor point.

I am not trying to make enemies, but just to highlight safety concerns.




Matt
Reaching parts traditional window cleaners can not reach.

Jakey boy

  • Posts: 869
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2011, 10:21:55 pm »
3 story houses are less than 9 meters from where you stand on the ladder, and my insurance covers 30ft so it's fine fine fine, i don't use a ladders as I personally find them less stable, each to there own, at the end if the day, no one wants to fall off so I'm sure we all take much care when doing 3 story jobs, i for one am always very careful, I don't think the health & saftey asspect of window cleaning helps, I think common sense and self risk assesments are key to bring safe, if in doubt don't go up there!

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2011, 10:56:27 pm »
Hi

You cannot work above 9 meters with ladders  without a risk assesment

HSE law

If caught or death

Fine up to £20.000
prison sentence

I might be wrong, and am wiling to stand corrected, but did not think it was 9 metres, I think any work at height  using ladders requires a written risk assesment.

idealrob


Sorry

Bryan

idealrob

  • Posts: 666
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2011, 11:20:03 pm »
Here is a link to a fall from 6 metres

http://www.shponline.co.uk/incourt-content/full/sub-contractor-disputed-level-of-control-over-roof-plunge

Have a look at picture of the man injured and think, is it worth it, and tell us its ok cleaning 3rd storey windows.

idealrob


[

VSP Home Care

  • Posts: 622
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2011, 11:36:30 pm »
VSP I wouldn't class attaching the fall arrest to the ladders as safe, only because what would happen if the ladders moved laterally?
The ladders come down with the operative.
The safest option would be to drill into the wall and insert an anchor point.

I am not trying to make enemies, but just to highlight safety concerns.



 
Matt

I agree mate, as I said the best I can think of is to drill into the wall and strap the ladder as well although thats something I would only really use if working alone and I don't if possible especially at hight.

It is common sense really, trades go to 30 feet and over hundreds of times a day using ladders.  I don't know the figures for death or serious injury when the operative has taken precautions but I'd think it's not very high.

People with little brains tearing up a 3 stage on their own once in a blue moon might be a higher figure though.

I think the general point here is that it's not illegal to do, but you need to take precautions and think about what your doing properly.

If you don't then you might just end up removing yourself from the gene pool and possibly becoming a "Darwin Award contender"  ;)

prestige cleaners

  • Posts: 1038
Re: 3rd Floor Gutters and Ladders
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2011, 12:19:43 am »
what the hecks an "A" frame ladder, laugh out loud!  ???