[matt]

this thread is allmost 24 hours old and still nothing from the ironics camp

things must be slipping

[East coast window cleaning Services]

lol give them time they will

[David Slater]

lol give them time they will

I hope they do.

I'd love to hear the advantages to customer (or supplier) of giving them your money only to get it back 10 days later?

Doesn't it strike any of you guys as a rather long winded, circuitous route to a £1,000 discount?

[Andrew McCann]

It's probably a quiet time of year for them and rather than discounting their products they are offering this scheme because they don't want to devalue the brand name which they have invested very heavily in and protect with vigour.

Pretty good marketing in my opinion. Whatever you may think of them they are smart at what they do.

Andrew

[Steve CM]

It's probably a quiet time of year for them and rather than discounting their products they are offering this scheme because they don't want to devalue the brand name which they have invested very heavily in and protect with vigour.

Pretty good marketing in my opinion. Whatever you may think of them they are smart at what they do.

Andrew

very smart in fact. to cause this amount of fuss from a promotion is all good business.

[Alex Gardiner]

Basically if you pay by credit card or take out a loan it can all go down as business expense and you will then get a gift of £1000 back to spend on yourself. Much better than just a 10% discount. It also looks good on the advert as £1000 has a way of catching attention more so than 10%, 15%. A genuine offer and particularly good if you were just about to invest in one anyway.

Whilst I do not use any of Ionic's products in my own window cleaning firm (I have trialled them though) I do admire the way that they run a professional retail business. Most businesses go under because they do not charge enough for their products. Ionic's have got a sustainable business model and pursue it with great efficiency, hats off to them for their business acumen.

[Steve CM]

hats of to them for their business acumen.

and why they are numero uno at what they do!

[David Slater]

It's probably a quiet time of year for them and rather than discounting their products they are offering this scheme because they don't want to devalue the brand name which they have invested very heavily in and protect with vigour.

Pretty good marketing in my opinion. Whatever you may think of them they are smart at what they do.

Andrew

Hmmm...

We are still presuming this has NOTHING to do with finance right?

OK, lets continue from that perspective - its your OWN money.

So you want me to pull my savings out of an account which is generating interest to give it to you and then you give it back to me to put back in my interest bearing account 10 days later?...thus losing me possibly one, two or even a whole years interest (if you are on a fixed rate deposit scheme) ?
WHY?

What if you go in to administration while I'm waiting for my 'cash back'...then what?
NOTE - I am not saying Ionics is (or maybe) going into adminstation, but in these uncertain times do you really want to find out the hard way?

Or how about this -

I pay for the system on my credit card. I take it you will send me cash (as agreed in the promotion) as it states 'cash back' ?

So what if I send the system back within 30 days and do a 'chargeback' on my credit card.....

What do you return to my card - £10,000 or £9,000 ?

I paid £10,000 on my card. YOU must return £10,000 to my card.

Unless of course you return the £1,000 to the card then its not really a 'cash back' offer is it?

Two words spring to mind - LEGAL MINEFIELD




...unless of course it has something to do with finance  

 

[David Slater]

Basically if you pay by credit card or take out a loan it can all go down as business expense and you will then get a gift of £1000 back to spend on yourself. Much better than just a 10% discount. It also looks good on the advert as £1000 has a way of catching attention more so than 10%, 15%. A genuine offer and particularly good if you were just about to invest in one anyway.

Whilst I do not use any of Ionic's products in my own window cleaning firm (I have trialled them though) I do admire the way that they run a professional retail business. Most businesses go under because they do not charge enough for their products. Ionic's have got a sustainable business model and pursue it with great efficiency, hats off to them for their business acumen.

Alex,

Is the card provider aware of the scheme?
Has the card provider agreed to you getting money back as a 'gift'

'Gifting' money from finance deals is a naughty area of the law. The lender didn't agree to it so somebody is breaking its T&C's

Is that the borrower or supplier?

....or BOTH?

The courts seem to be taking the line that's its BOTH parties that colluded to defraud the lender.

Obviously, this has more to do with property deals, but if customers of these systems start to default (for whatever reason) then I'm sure precedents will be found.

[David Slater]

Basically if you pay by credit card or take out a loan it can all go down as business expense and you will then get a gift of £1000 back to spend on yourself. Much better than just a 10% discount. It also looks good on the advert as £1000 has a way of catching attention more so than 10%, 15%. A genuine offer and particularly good if you were just about to invest in one anyway.

Whilst I do not use any of Ionic's products in my own window cleaning firm (I have trialled them though) I do admire the way that they run a professional retail business. Most businesses go under because they do not charge enough for their products. Ionic's have got a sustainable business model and pursue it with great efficiency, hats off to them for their business acumen.

Alex,

One final point -

I would URGE you to check with HMRC on the 'gift' element and whether you are indeed allowed to 'spend it on yourself' and not declare where that money came from and how it was acquired!!

You may find HMRC suggesting that you are attempting to defraud them of VAT and income on that £1,000 you received as a 'gift' from the supplier....after all, you WOULD be off-setting the full £10,000 against VAT/tax..... wouldnt you?

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi David,

You make very good reasoning. I was not planning on doing this or even emulating them. I was just pointing out how it would appear and why it was an attractive/clever way of giving a discount.

I personally agree that it would not work as you would have only spent the lower amount unless some accountant on here knows why you would be able to?

[David Slater]

Hi David,

You make very good reasoning. I was not planning on doing this or even emulating them. I was just pointing out how it would appear and why it was an attractive/clever way of giving a discount.

I personally agree that it would noi work as you would have only spent the lower amount unless some accountant on here knows why you would be able to?

Alex,

Seriously, this discussion isnt a dig at Inonics or yourself...or any other supplier!!!

There are ways of offering discounts and there are ways of landing yourself in VERY hot water...given the current climate.

I do hope Ionnics have 'covered all the bases' with this promotion and if nothing else, I've given them some points to consider.

Lets hope it also gives the guys buying the systems with this discount some points to think about over how they declare (and spend) that £1,000 'gift'.

.....because if you fail to declare that wont be Ionics fault will it 

A straight forward offer of - £1,000 discount (if paid in full by 31st Jan 2009) would have been more than adequate wouldnt it?



Ionics is taking a different approach and I do wonder whether all parties concerened are aware of the full implications.



If I was a really nasty person....i could think of at least TWO ways I could make a quick grand on this scheme!!...totally above board and not a single law broken by me 

 





 

[East coast window cleaning Services]

Alex perhaps you should follow suit and do some sort of cashback scheme
Whens the Jan sales start 

[David Slater]

£1,000 Cash Back

Sales promotion, nothing more buy today and save £1,000 or buy tomorrow and pay £1,000 more.

It’s a better deal for the customer and to boost the sales of Ionic.

 

So why not - £1,000 discount (if paid in full by 31st Jan 2009)?

Why 'cash back' ?   Why should YOU risk putting a grand with somebody who is going to give it back to you in 10 days time anyway?


Ewan, you should probably read a little bit of this topic my friend.

[David Slater]

Its Ionic business not yours, there doing a promotion you’re just reading into this.

If you are so concerned and right about what you say, what if you were for example going to buy one of there systems would you turn down the cash back?

They have there T&C you have yours, something you seem to miss!

 

ermmmm no, I wouldnt turn down the 'cash back'  I would try and establish why they wanted me to give them a grand which they give me back 10 days later.

So its in the T&C's....that makes it alright then

 

[Ravensford]

Not read the whole thread completely but surely this is a way of boosting sales in the short term without dropping their prices long term. As was said earlier list price stays the same.

Similar to the Chrysler buy one get one free on a £20k car. When times get better list price always has been £20k.