[Sir Squeaky]

JM123.

Like I said, they pay me at the window.
I'd have to go in and knock at every wobbly infirm person's door afterwards and that would take a good 20-30 minutes.
What's the point in that?

They nearly all have their windows open, and they're new and stiff.

They don't like the pole anyway.

Why am I repeating all this...? :

[macmac]

if you drop your jobs that wont wfp you'll soon be very out of pocket, dont make the mistake & believe all the hype about you'll never need ladders again!
A window that has previousley been traded will have no bearing on the result of wfp, so to blame this is miss-informed. I trad some one month then wfp the next, done correctly the window should come up perfect, if not, its nothing to do with it beeing traded the month before. IMO, you should never clean the top frame or any vent wfp, this will certainly give you no end of hassle with spots, drips, smears etc. If you want me to explain how to wfp without cleaning the top frame i will, but in a seperate post. I wish you the best of luck with your wfp venture, but, as i'm sure you will soon learn, there are many different techniques to wfp & some very bemusing advise from people that have not much wfp experience (with the best of intentions of-course), if you choose to follow the masses, thats up to you.
Just think of all the excuses you are having to put to your customers about spots, runs etc, & all the excuses people use in general concerned with wfp, first cleans, second cleans, even THIRD cleans.People cleaning windows three times just to get them (almost) right!
there should actually be none of this, but like i say, if you want to follow the masses & all that.

good luck

tony

[Sir Squeaky]

Well come on then Tony, do tell...

I've been totally cleaning all frames and vents.
I couldn't see how I could do just part the way up the top edge, surely dirt above will run down?

If you want to save arguements from others e-mail me it instead.
I'd appreciate some non-influenced advice.

Cheers.

[Tosh]

Roger,

How did today go?

[Pj]

Rog, you're used to doing a good job, keep it up.  Don't listen to all this controversial stuff about how far up or down to clean.  Learn to keep the whole window clean just like you used to, in fact more so, because I'm sure there were some top frames you just couldn't quite get to at times off a ladder.
Now?  CLEAN THEM!  YEP, VENTS TOO!  Tell your clients that when you do clean the top frames and vents there will be some minimal spotting, because you want to clean the whole frame and the vent cannot be avoided, but next time it will come up lovely.  And keep it all clean.  Don't talk rubbish to them.  Most reasonable people respond better when they are informed.
Ideally, do the top of frames/vents, really rinse, then do the rest of the frame, rinse, then the glass, rinse, rinse, rinse.  I'm sure Ian has told you how, he gave a really well thought out method of how to clean a window properly a short while ago.

Oh, and don't forget to rinse!

[Sir Squeaky]

I did virtually what I would have done trad today.
Quite pleased.
Wasn't tired either. I could have worked on but I was out of water.

Still having spot prolems with metal frames though.
Upvc's fine(ish).

Cheers PJ.

[Chris Cottrell]

I must admit I cleaned a new one today and thought that I'd try avoiding the vents on a few to see how they came up, I looked at them when I'd done and was horrified spots and runs all down from the edge of the vents , they'd obviously got splashed and caused runs so I went back round them again, In future I'll stick to my tried and tested method of doing ALL the window and frame including the vent

Chris

[poleman]

you should never clean the top frame

Its industry standard practice to clean the frames (90% of windows)


How you clean your customer windows is up to you and them

However

How close is close to the top of the frame! I took over a job from a WFP user that didnt do the frames, and because it was a big job, the dirt built up around him (green and dirty frames and runs on the glass)

Andy

 

[Pj]

and rinse!

with brush on or off?  Who cares, just rinse!

[Mr. S]

My customers are ALWAYS impressed i do the frames wfp!

In fact when putting some of my prices up last year didnt lose many cos they said its a better job and were getting our frames cleaned too! It gives a better appearance to the whole house!............... If you dont believe me try it....Get two customers next door and do one all the frames and the other just glass! See for yourself!! Im not saying im the best wfper or right just view it as though you are the customer....although some dont care as long as they can see out their windows


All The Best Squeaky

[Ian_Giles]

Where vents are concerned, some I do, and some I avoid.

I think you get to know the ones that will cause you problems.

On a first time clean I will always try and do ABOVE the vents, I've developed a decent technique now and cope just fine.
If the vents are dirty I'll go back to them after gravity has done it's work and lightly re-clean the glass.
As we gain experience, we all develop little changes in technique that suit US personally, and we will all swear by our methods.

UPVC windows often oxidise, I personally cope just fine with them now.

Rog has had a problem with some patio doors that are aluminium, it doesn't necessarily mean the problem is the aluminium, it can also be the type of rubber seals that the window panes are held in place with, particularly on older aluminium windows.

Squeaks is learning fast though, but he's still got further to go than he realises!!

One tip I passed onto him (that he's ignored so far) is to have his microbore hose clipped in some fashion to his waist, to say this makes life easier is an understatement.
Because he's stripped the thread on his brush, he is treating the brush like fragile bone china
I've tried to tell him how to connect up his lightweight gooseneck with the existing brush he is using...to no avail!
Not that he needs to use the gooseneck as such at the moment, but it's a bloody useful tool
He keeps getting an airlock that prevents the pump from working, this isn't the fault of the pump, but rather a combination af how is system is setup.
Clearing the airlock isn't hard, but he could make it easier for himself, (can't be bothered to explain how!)and he'll have to do it eventually...
He's a stuborn old bugger though...seems he is determined to learn by experience and not by advice!

But already he has started turning over (with less physical effort) virtually the same as he was doing trad, and even on first time cleans he is also beginning to get decent results...whats he going to be like in 5 or 6 weeks time?

some things he has struggled with, leaking windows and so on, but changing his technique may well negate that problem, in fact Squeaks has had more problems with leaks in one day than I have had in 3 years!!!!

Gotta go!

Taxi time

Ian

[Pj]

Poor Squeaky..

Sounds like the report from a Psychiatrist!

[pjulk]

Vents i had problems for about 3 months with them just coudn't get them right.

Now its easy i could do them with my eyes closed.

I find if you stand back further the angle of the jets are point more down wards and i now don't clean above the vent just to the top of the glass.
I also leave the brush on the window when i rinse that way no spray gets into the vents.

Give it a couple of months and you will look back and laugh at the problems you had.
We all go through it and eventually come out the other side knowing we are doing a top job every time.

Paul

[macmac]

I've never cleaned the top frame in over 3 years wfp, never been asked to, never offered to & most of all, i never made the mistake of selling clean frames to customers as a diversion from not perfect glass. I think its a mistake to over-sell wfp to customers as then you have to come up with the goods, month in month out, scrubbing vents/frames, rinse, rinse, rinse etc. most customers just want clean glass, no drips, no spots etc.
I took over some work from a "clean all frames" wfp'er, he had, at the time 2 years more wfp experience than me. after a while countless customers remarked to me how nice it was to not be left with dirty runs & spots on there windows. not only that but i could do the work twice as fast as he too. I used to watch him scrubbing away at the top frame, flushing out the vents etc. then use 20 gallons rinsing!!
I'm not saying cleaning the top frame or vents will always give poor results, but more that it is imo a very un-nessesary risk.

tony

[Sir Squeaky]

Now I don't know what to do.

[macmac]

for now rog, until you're a bit more used to your equipment, try both. this way you will see for yourself which works best for you. I learned the hard way & i'm giving you the best advise i can from my own personal experience, (but then so is everyone else, probably) my method takes more accuracy & is best with a rectangular brush with pencil jets.this method saves time & less water is used to rinse. once mastered it pays back good style.
I would have to go into quite some detail with you to explain this method correctly, so see how you get on first with trying both methods.
one tip is to let the tops (not the ends) of the brisstles clean the beading at the top of the glass, but dont wet it through.

tony

[rosskesava]

I've read this whole thread several times. Same old story. Problems with wfp.

Yeah. WFP is the answer to all things window cleaning. I also use wfp so don't get me wrong.

I want as many as possible to start window cleaning using wfp. The more that do, the happier I am which is why forums like this are great.

I am so so happy I can still clean windows trad style. There's a growing and increasing fortune to earnt cleaning windows that way.

Cheers

[Davew]

Yes trads the best way to get up close and personal to the glass, it's just that some of us don't want to be humping a ladder about or risking our lives. Nothing wrong with either as far as I'm concerned.

[Sir Squeaky]

I've read this whole thread several times. Same old story. Problems with wfp.

Yeah. WFP is the answer to all things window cleaning. I also use wfp so don't get me wrong.

I want as many as possible to start window cleaning using wfp. The more that do, the happier I am which is why forums like this are great.

I am so so happy I can still clean windows trad style. There's a growing and increasing fortune to earnt cleaning windows that way.

Cheers

Don't worry Ross, I can always change back again.

...and move to Brighton.