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Keith Dobson

  • Posts: 66
Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« on: November 12, 2006, 11:54:15 am »
Hi everyone I'm interested in the Carpet Cleaning business and an absolute newbie, I would like your advice as to start up as a Ltd. company or as a sole trader? I have been on few of the government websites and it's as clear as mud. I would appreciate your opinions and what are the pros and con's for each?

Thanks Keith. ???

carpetguy

Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 03:19:32 pm »
Most definitely...............do not go down the Ltd road.............not at least, for a few years, if ever

robbie

Keith Dobson

  • Posts: 66
Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 07:14:55 pm »
First of all I must apologise for posting this message in the wrong section sorry guys! :-[

Robbie, could you please elaborate a bit more as to why? As I have been advised to go Ltd. from the off if you know what I mean? Is it down to cost or taxes or what? Or is it just personal choice? Come on guys I need some help I need to get started soon. Your advice would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Keith.  ???

carpetguy

Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2006, 12:29:51 am »
The only reason for becoming a Ltd Co is to protect your assets in the event of failure.....but you are very unlikely to be in a position, where you owe anyone money in this business, in fact, you are more likely to find the opposite applies.

If you set up a Limited co, you then become an employee, with PAYE  liability, income tax liability, on a monthly basis.

As a partner or sole trader, you have a full 12 months before you have to submit accounts and your tax liability is likely to be zero in the first year, at least.

One of the businesses I'm involved in became Ltd about 18 months ago and the tax bill has soared as has accountancy fees, etc.

robbie

Keith Dobson

  • Posts: 66
Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2006, 12:23:47 pm »
Robbie,
Thanks for that detailed explanation, it's a sole trader route for me then, unless anyone has any more views on the subject.
Thanks again! :)

prodry

Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 12:54:11 pm »
Mr Brown has taken the benefits of being a small Ltd company away. Last tax year you were able to have the first £10k profit taken as a dividend tax-free. However this relief has now been withdrawn. You can still make many tax advantages by being limited however to do this you will need to pay yourself a small wage of say £500.00 per month and then take any profits out as dividends, profit (dividends) incurring a lower rate of tax and NI.

However you will need to set up payroll to pay yourself with PAYE and will need to take advantages of the tax benefits allowed as a director. You will need a decent accountant to administer all this and the accounting you will have to do to companies house and Inland Revenue. This will double or triple your accountant’s bill. Until you know what level of income you are likely to be achieving then you will have no way of knowing which is the best option for you.

Another point is that you can only take money out of a limited company when you have made a profit otherwise it is treated as earnings and taxed accordingly. Taking money from a limited company that you know is not in profit can also get you in trouble with IR and companies house. You can get around this by taking money as an interest free loan however even this is taxed, as it is a benefit in kind. Also every time you take a dividend out you will need a dividend voucher made up and minutes of a board meeting done.

The other major benefit of being limited is you have limited liability, the company has liability equal to its share capital usually £1.00 for small limited companies. Therefore if you were sued by someone for burning their house down then the company would fold and you would lose all assets held in the company and your share capital whilst keeping you personally held assets such as your home etc. This doesn’t mean you would get away free as you would have still have a liability as a director and would probably be fined as a director by the health and safety. Bit of an extreme example. 

Also as mentioned in the posts above if the company went bust your creditors would be limited to taking the share capital and business assets, protecting your own assets held personally. However it is hard to get long-term business credit as a new limited company and any credit will normally have to be personally underwritten by you. So this benefit will not really help you.

In a nutshell it is easier to administer a sole trader then a limited company. If you are just setting up as a sole trader then all you need to do is register as self employed with the inland revenue (you can do this online) and set up direct debit to pay your class 2 national insurance contributions. Keep all your receipts and invoices together until April ’07. Until which time you will have a chance to go and see a few accountants. Most will not charge for an initial 1 hour consultation during which they will explain the above and more. Decide on an accountant and find out how he or she want the books kept, they will probably give you a free Excel template to do this. You then do your own books and will only need an accountant at the end of the tax year to do your return, if the books were kept well by yourself then you should only expect to pay around £200-400 for the return. Compared to around £1500.00 to properly administer and account for a limited company.

Use the money saved to get some really good indemnity and liability insurance.
Registering as self-employed forms  http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/startingup/register.htm

Hope this helps

Trevor Knight

  • Posts: 1825
Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2006, 07:49:18 am »
The only reason for becoming a Ltd Co is to protect your assets in the event of failure.....but you are very unlikely to be in a position, where you owe anyone money in this business, in fact, you are more likely to find the opposite applies.robbie

Hi Robbie,

The protection, so to speak, of a limited company no longer exists, if your company goes belly up and you are seen to be working, lets say, on the fine line side of things the Tax man has every right to come to you personally to satisfy any debts the company may have against it.

The only real situation it may pay for a carpet cleaning comapny to be limited is if they have invested in vehicles, machinery etc and work for corporate organisations that pay on invoice.

If the company who owes you money goes belly up, a limited company will sustain the losses and not you personally if you cannot maintain your business due to your debts/creditors.
Covering Hampshire, Dorset, Surrey, Berkshire

Keith Dobson

  • Posts: 66
Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2006, 09:26:49 pm »
Gents, I would like to thank you for you advice. I will be going down the sole trader route when I start up. Thanks again! ;)

Keith.

homenclean

  • Posts: 587
Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2006, 04:37:48 pm »
The best advice, speak to an accountant. My mate has an accountancy practice and going ltd was some of the best advice i have had, if your wife/partner doesnt work make them a director and use their allowances, introduce all your kit in and this will go as a deduction from your tax bill. No big tax bill at year  end as you pay paye and ni as you go and then any additional income is drawn as dividend taxed at 19%. set up business deposit accounts and save into these instead of regular savings that way you can save without drawing money from the business and paying tax, when you accumulate 10 to 20 thousand this can be deposited abroad at much higher interest rates. long term you will be allowed to bring back into the country (as personal drawings) 5% per annum without tax liability.

my accountancy bill is £1200 per annum including wages.

A small price to pay and saves me on my tax.

John

JS2

  • Posts: 264
Re: Sole Trader or Limited Company?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2006, 07:51:23 pm »
Dear Enquirer

I like these sort of issues (past and forgettable experience !).  Going Ltd is a way to protect your personal assets if, acting responsibly, things turn a little pear shaped.  Remember, being sole trader makes you and the business the same legal person as far as business debts are concerned.  With Carpet Cleaning (CC) you can get protection by 1.  Operating with due care and attention (i.e. get trained) and 2.  Insurance (to indemnify against the unlikely).  The choice of course is ulimately yours, but run correctly, CC is not as risky as being an architect !

Pete (JS2)