Clean It Up
UK Floor Cleaning Forum => Carpet Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: Peter Sweeney on March 25, 2010, 09:09:28 pm
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Guys
The exam will take place on Saturday the 10th at the Fenton Manor Sports Centre at 3pm for those wishing to take the exam. Please note that will be no charge for entering and you will not be obligated to join C.L.E.A.N just because you are taking the exam. Those that pass will be invited to join as "Founder Members" and if joining will be listed on the website with this status for as long as they are a member.
The exam will be, for the most part, a multiple choice set of questions including technical, scientific, practical and even administrative subject matter. There will also be some questions that have multiple point answers. Some of the questions may seem very difficult and you may think impossible to answer but this is more for our benefit to understand the gaps that are missing as a whole.
For those arriving later there will be a second opportunity to take the exam at 6pm which will be at the hotel.
There will also be provision for those that can't make the CCDO to take the exam on a more local level but this will be communicated at a later date and to those who have asked for this.
Pete
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how many % for a pass pete
please say 20 please say 20 ;D
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Dont you give Training then sit the EXam???
Just asking am not going my brother is tho...
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Peter
You do realise that its the Grand National and then Chelsea Villa in the FA CUp that afternoon.
Cheers
Neil
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Very inconsiderate of the Grand National and FA Cup organisers to class with CCDO, dont you think Neil. ;D
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Hi Guys
More importantly its Spurs vs Portsmouth Fa Cup semi on the Sunday!
Cheers
Doug
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Have I understood this correctly?, the exam is on the saturday whereas the CCDO is on the Sunday?
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Have I understood this correctly?, the exam is on the saturday whereas the CCDO is on the Sunday?
I had CCDO down as Monday ??? Hotel's booked for Saturday and we're all set, looking forward to a good day :)
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Why would anyone want to take an exam?
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Why would anyone want to take an exam?
Pass
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i think i'll 1 out of a hundred.
question 27) what is in called when the wand is moved across the carpet.
same answer i'll give for all the questions
pass, woohooo.
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question 27) what is in called when the wand is moved across the carpet.
same answer i'll give for all the questions
pass, woohooo.
Damn, I would get that wrong aswell - I thought the correct answer was "Oi, hands off you theiving pikey"
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You could be on to something Derek
Question 50: Finish this sentence:
The valve used to divert cleaning solution is known as a by****
;D ;)
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woohooo, 2 out of 100. cheers den. unless mikes answer to question 27 is right ;D
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Did anyone spot question 6 in the general knowledge section?
Another name for a corridor is a ****age.
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Hope there going to be harder than then questions you get on morning telie,what colour is an orange a yellow b pink or c ;D ;D
Can see doug with his little cap on doing the marking ;D
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I can't wait for someone to come along and answer the thread with......
Are they actually the questions off the paper ;D
Q. What colour does litmus paper go when contacted by an acid?
a) Red
b) Red with white spots
c) Red with blue stripes
d) Who cares Ultrapac Renovate is the bees knees
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I can't wait for someone to come along and answer the thread with......
Are they actually the questions off the paper ;D
Q. What colour does litmus paper go when contacted by an acid?
a) Red
b) Red with white spots
c) Red with blue stripes
d) Who cares Ultrapac Renovate is the bees knees
or
E) who gives a flying faaaa laaa laa la laaa la laaa la ;D
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What is the best method to clean ANY carpet.
A. TM
B. Porty
C. Host
D. Buffer/dirt swirler
E) who gives a flying faaaa laaa laa la laaa la laaa la
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What is the best method to clean ANY carpet.
A. TM
B. Porty
C. Host
D. Buffer/dirt swirler
E) who gives a flying faaaa laaa laa la laaa la laaa la
F) mop and bucket, theres more profit and tha customer doesn't know any better ;D
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What is the best method to clean ANY carpet.
A. TM
B. Porty
C. Host
D. Buffer/dirt swirler
E) who gives a flying faaaa laaa laa la laaa la laaa la
F) mop and bucket, theres more profit and tha customer doesn't know any better ;D
G) Dereks new bowser pressure washer(drying times may be slow though)
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The exam will take place on Saturday the 10th at the Fenton Manor Sports Centre at 3pm for those wishing to take the exam. Please note that will be no charge for entering and you will not be obligated to join C.L.E.A.N just because you are taking the exam. Those that pass will be invited to join as "Founder Members" and if joining will be listed on the website with this status for as long as they are a member.
The exam will be, for the most part, a multiple choice set of questions including technical, scientific, practical and even administrative subject matter. There will also be some questions that have multiple point answers. Some of the questions may seem very difficult and you may think impossible to answer but this is more for our benefit to understand the gaps that are missing as a whole.
For those arriving later there will be a second opportunity to take the exam at 6pm which will be at the hotel.
There will also be provision for those that can't make the CCDO to take the exam on a more local level but this will be communicated at a later date and to those who have asked for this.
Pete"
So what about those of us who now cannot attend on the Saturday, but had intended to do it on the CCDO day, the Sunday?
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There will also be provision for those that can't make the CCDO to take the exam on a more local level but this will be communicated at a later date and to those who have asked for this.
Pete"
So what about those of us who now cannot attend on the Saturday, but had intended to do it on the CCDO day, the Sunday?
The first paragraph quoted answers your question Philip - the exam was always scheduled for the saturday, sunday is the ccdo.
Steve
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So if your'e coming from down south or up north for that matter to do the exam you have no choice but stay in the hotel for the night so as to attend the CCDO the next day, either that or travel all the way home after the exam. Why not let people take the exam on the CCDO and save people all that extra expense? Better still let people take the exam at home and submit by post? What happens if you don‚t pass the exam? Do you have to do the clean training course and then retake the exam and what is the cost of that? Is the exam deliberately weighted to fail as many as possible to take up training places? That may be an unfair question but in order to be fair to the entrants has the paper been independently scrutinised to make sure it is fair given the likely skills of the entrants?
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Glynn
The CCDO is for those wanting to learn "without other attachment" and and looking to give to (rather than damage) a good cause.
Why don't you take the exam and see for yourself rather than making unqualified, pre-concieved judgements. You could alwways get someone else to take it for you ;) I believe they call him the "unknown soldier".
Derek Walker gave me £100 in cash today to the John Gregory fund and did'nt want it to be mentioned. Thats a gent in the true form. How much will you and Simon be contributing?
Pete
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Come on Glynn, you must have read enough about CLEAN from this and other forums to get an idea by now what this is all about.
Call it an exam if you must although I prefer the words 'Knowledge check' as the whole idea was to allow those with enough basic knowledge to show that they know what they are doing out there on the streets.
There's already an organisation out there that allows those with zero knowledge or previous experience of carpet cleaning, to attend a 2 day course, tick the right boxes and boast on their own websites that they are expert carpet cleaners. I know because I have one around here.
Read my second paragraph for a true test of those who know what they are doing, and not what they are saying.
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Sorry, but being the eldest son I'm not missing my dads 80th birthday meal, which I've organised for 60 relatives, driving 70/80 miles each way and paying for a hotel for a multiple test for an unproven exam.
I'll be there on the Sunday, still hoping for an interesting day out.
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............'Derek Walker gave me £100 in cash today to the John Gregory fund and did'nt want it to be mentioned.
All credit to Derek for his donation - no credit to you Pete for not respecting Derek's wish ???
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;D
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I'm happy that the exam isn't on CCDO day, I'm rubbish at "Knowledge Tests" with a stinking hangover ;D
Glynn, I'm having to travel from Cornwall to do the exam because that's "MY CHOICE", no one's holding a gun to my head, I want to do it... If I fall short in the exam, I'll learn from it and do it again until I do pass! Life's as simple or as complicated as you wish to make it!!!!! Peace Brother :)
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So why complicate it by travelling all that way and taking an exam that means, lets
face it, sod all.
John
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So if your'e coming from down south or up north for that matter to do the exam you have no choice but stay in the hotel for the night so as to attend the CCDO the next day, either that or travel all the way home after the exam. Why not let people take the exam on the CCDO and save people all that extra expense? Better still let people take the exam at home and submit by post? What happens if you don‚t pass the exam? Do you have to do the clean training course and then retake the exam and what is the cost of that? Is the exam deliberately weighted to fail as many as possible to take up training places? That may be an unfair question but in order to be fair to the entrants has the paper been independently scrutinised to make sure it is fair given the likely skills of the entrants?
i think you can choose to read glyns post in an anti clean way, like a complaint to the bbc style voice, or you can read it as a polite inquisitive multiple question type way, he even accepts that some of his questioning is unfair.
i get tricky customers who ask difficult questions, some relevant, some not, but i choose to answer as best as possible to sway them to my way of thinking rather than take offence by them. i think clean need to take a step back, 3 deep breathes and a chuckle to relax, and then set about getting people on there side rather than forcing them further away. difficult or near impossible? maybe. but theres a lot of fence sitters out there who see these awkward questions as relevant.
just my views on the thread and subject, take it or leave it, just don't have a cow over it. ;)
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So why complicate it by travelling all that way and taking an exam that means, lets
face it, sod all.
John
Means Sod all??? That's just your opinion which is fair enough. I've been in support of CLEAN and want to join which is, again, my choice! I'm travelling up that day anyhow and it will mean setting off an hour or 2 earlier. So there's nothing complicated about it now, is there?
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I will arrive just before 5 on Sat but will not take the exam because the football is on. Football, Work in that order. If their is another time to take it then I will.
Looking forward to CCDO though
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Glynn
The CCDO is for those wanting to learn "without other attachment" and and looking to give to (rather than damage) a good cause.
Pete
How dare you Mr Sweeny, Why have you asked that question? About contributing and implying Glynn is damaging a good cause. What people do or don’t give to any good cause is up to them. The way you have put it, implies anyone that does not turn up on Sunday are crap because they haven’t contributed.
This topic was about the exam, which you are advertising on this forum. Glynn’s question raised a point about the extra cost involved with having to stay over. Plus like you pointed out the CCDO day (Sunday) will be a teaching and learning day so makes sense to have the exam at the end Sunday. Valid point don’t you think.
And just to make one thing clear before all of the usual people start typing away and trying to make my post anti clean. I AM NOT AGAINST CLEAN, am I clear.
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Hi Neil,
Yes we will make provision for you and others and as local to you as is possible.
See you up there.
Pete
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Neil, my drinking buddy is called Matthew Grainger and he "always" gets the first round in, which is rare for a Yorkshireman he tells me..... You got to keep up the family traditions mate ;D
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Do we have to buy our own drinks.
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All I have to say on the matter is the CHAT must be great in the Waterworth household ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D around cleaning up time
You clean it.... no way you said clean am no doing that ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Glynn
The CCDO is for those wanting to learn "without other attachment" and and looking to give to (rather than damage) a good cause.
Why don't you take the exam and see for yourself rather than making unqualified, pre-concieved judgements. You could alwways get someone else to take it for you ;) I believe they call him the "unknown soldier".
Derek Walker gave me £100 in cash today to the John Gregory fund and did'nt want it to be mentioned. Thats a gent in the true form. How much will you and Simon be contributing?
Pete
James123, Ha, Ha, grow up.
Mr Sweeney
The reply to Glynn’s post is bang out of order. Also Mr Sweeney you suggested Glynn gets someone else to sit the exam for him. Ok the way I read that is, Mr Sweeney is implying Glynn is dishonest and or an incapable cc, who the h*ll does he think he is.
Then to write about Derek’s donation, when Derek has asked it not to be mentioned.
Does that mean you are not to be trusted Mr Sweeney?
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Well your leaving yourselfs open........ a married couple never off web forums.... ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ;) ; ;) ;) :o
you give it out so take some!!!
I see this as better than watching eastenders ;D ;D ;D
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Colin tell your mate he's not a real Yorkshireman ;D
Shaun
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Karren, please don't bite my head off, but I would say you're reading to much into it! Glynn's post does seem negative towards the end and perhaps undermines and belittles CLEAN and it's founders to some extent which comes accross as disrespectful.
What would you expect Pete to do or say in reply to Glynn's post?
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Colin,
Glynn has only asked some relevant questions to which Pete as one of the Communications Directors of CLEAN should be able to answer without launching into a personal attack and attempt to belittle a highly respected member of the carpet cleaning community. On the subject of Communications Directors the other one has launched into another personal attack on Simon today. I'm not too sure what they are trying to communicate or even direct, but I'm sure the silent majority will be drawing their own conclusions from it all.
Sharon
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I would get my Mrs to chip in , she is busy as senior nurse in charge of a hospital tonight. It is sad when people drag the wife to work.
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Jason,
Do tell me, Is there a reason why I shouldn't take part in a discussion on this forum? I run Gerrards alongside Simon seven days per week and have been a member of this board for quite some time now albeit as part of the silent majority. I do take exception though when my husband and my friends are being personally attacked. Please look back at all early threads re: CLEAN and take note if any one member of clean has been personally attacked by Simon or Glynn, I think not!!! As you well know Simon does not shy away from speaking his mind and would not dream of asking someone to do it for him. I find it quite offensive that you think I'm nothing more than Simon's mouthpiece, and that I don't hold my own views and opinions or have the right to express them as freely as you do!!!
Sharon
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Well when sombody uses thier first 2 posts to speak up for hubby, it does say a lot ,, I find it strange that you could have posted to help people with information on operating as a carpet cleaner on hundreds of subjects , yet only pipe up about CLEAN.
hmmmmmmm, probably the silent majority will make up thier minds.
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Jason
I'd quit while you are a head if I were you. You think I've got an opinion or two!!! ;D
Simon
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Sharon,
It seems to me that Glynn's post on CLEAN got him the result he wanted, he got a rise out of Pete! Then you guys jump all over it like a pack of hounds!!!! What us lowly Newbies really want to know is.... why, what is actually going on?
I asked your husband a while back to kindly explain what his beef was with CLEAN and the question was never answered ???
I can only assume that whatever the problem is, it's possibly unfounded, defamatory or maybe even slanderous.... Don't leave us guessing too long though!
Regards, Colin
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSel-Z6ZOIA
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welcome to the forum sharon, its like one big happy family on here, you'll love it.
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Sharon,
It seems to me that Glynn's post on CLEAN got him the result he wanted, he got a rise out of Pete! Then you guys jump all over it like a pack of hounds!!!! What us lowly Newbies really want to know is.... why, what is actually going on?
I asked your husband a while back to kindly explain what his beef was with CLEAN and the question was never answered ???
I can only assume that whatever the problem is, it's possibly unfounded, defamatory or maybe even slanderous.... Don't leave us guessing too long though!
Regards, Colin
I can not answer for Glynn Colin , here are 2 facts though.
1 Simon(Glyns partner in another forum) Has cleaned cruise ships for some time, and has invested a lot in equipment for this.
2, CLEAN connected people recently cleaned a cruise ship.
Everyone can draw thier own inferences.
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Before you get shot down in flames Jason, it's Simon who regularly cleans the cruise ships.
Guys, all of us at CLEAN really appreciate your support and your posts in defence of us.
However, try not to cross the line in your responses to others who don't agree with all that we are trying to achieve.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion and while I would prefer not to read some of the more derogatory remarks made about CLEAN, I have got broad shoulders and it goes with the territory.
Looking forward to seeing friends, old and new at CCDO.
Steve
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Oft am I on SWINGERS.com?????? my laptop been hacked???
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Sharon,
It seems to me that Glynn's post on CLEAN got him the result he wanted, he got a rise out of Pete! Then you guys jump all over it like a pack of hounds!!!! What us lowly Newbies really want to know is.... why, what is actually going on?
I asked your husband a while back to kindly explain what his beef was with CLEAN and the question was never answered ???
I can only assume that whatever the problem is, it's possibly unfounded, defamatory or maybe even slanderous.... Don't leave us guessing too long though!
Regards, Colin
Colin that last comment you made, I should of used them words in my post. Oh and Colin Glynn's post was about the extra money due to staying over Saturday night, and the exam itself. And I have stated in CAPS that I do not have a problem with CLEAN. Just think about what you are saying, I have asked valid questions which have not been answered. If a member of this board was to post a comment like Mr Sweeney did about you what would you do?
Sharon, You should know better than that, you know that most of the guys on here would slap you down, because most of them do not consider us ladies, as equals and let alone to know what we are talking about.
Jason, I have worked with Glynn for years and yes Carpet Cleaning, So your comment on draging your wife to work is rubbish, Now read slowly and try to remember to breath, as we all know that men can not muti task ;)
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Some of the comments made are just stupid, If you think that comments like "SWINGERS.com" and the song on youtube is funny, then think again, it is just plain stupid. grow up ::)
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Steve,
I applaud that comment.
It is high time that the leadership of CLEAN stop conducting vitriolic personal attacks on people who have done nothing but ask perfectly reasonable questions about the make up and running of an organisation that can promise nothing but aspirations. Each and every question or concern raised have in actual fact been gold plated opportunities for CLEAN to explain what a great idea the CLEAN project really is, but instead of taking that opportunity you seem to have tasked your Communications Directors and their collection of hangers on to conduct vitriolic attacks upon anyone with any questions that you don't want asked. The result is a public relations disaster for CLEAN and the development of yet another faction within the carpet cleaning industry.
CLEAN is now a reality and whilst I and others have concerns about where it is going, I do wish the project success because people have now placed their trust in you and it's time for you to deliver!
For all of my criticisms I shall be the first to offer my congratulations if my many concerns turn out to be unfounded and CLEAN proves to be a success.
Simon
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Some of the comments made are just stupid, If you think that comments like "SWINGERS.com" and the song on youtube is funny, then think again, it is just plain stupid. grow up ::)
Oh we have a new moderator now, humour is now classed as "stupid",, and Immature.
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There you go. Simon, Sharon, Glynn & Karen all send their best wishes to CLEAN and wish it every success. Result :)
Perhaps the people envolved can get on with organising a new association to benefit carpet cleaners across the land rather than bickering on here.
All the best,
Jason.
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Oh... You've all made friends...... Great :)
Kind regards, Colin.
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You gotta laugh...."grown ups"
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You gotta laugh...."grown ups"
If you don't, you'll cry :D
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Looking forward to a good ccdo weekend.
Friday night - Few beers ;D
Saturday morning - Cleaning carpets to get discounted venue deal ;D
Saturday - CLEAN test ;D
Saturday afternoon - FA Cup Semi Final (Villa v Chelsea) ;D
Saturday night -A few beers ;)
Sunday day - CCDO ;D
Sunday afternoon - FA Cup Semi Final (Spurs v Portsmouth) ;D
Sunday night - More beer ;D
Monday morning - Drive home :(
Summary - Good weekend ;D
All the best,
Jason.
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Looking forward to all of that Jas - especially the few beers part ;D
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Same here mate can't wait!
All the best,
Jason.
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jason you were no where to be seen after 10pm last year and the year before, infact i was up chatting poope to dave leo till silly hours,
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Billy
Correct me if I’m wrong isn’t it your birthday on the 10th :P
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Is it not only "ACTUAL" carpet cleaners that are allowed on this forum??? I guess i'll be labled as sexest now :)
Tony
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not going this year len, not in the clean click
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nail on the head ;)
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Typical miss other peoples birthdays to save a few bob :-*
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jason you were no where to be seen after 10pm last year and the year before, infact i was up chatting poope to dave leo till silly hours,
Think you're mistaking me for lightweight Pete ;D. I was up till late same as you and a few others, think it was about 4 time before last.
P.S. Its nothing to do with a click, would love to see you there and tickets are still on sale.
All the best,
Jason.
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Hardly a clique, I don't know anyone and seeing CCDO as somewhere where I can learn from experienced C/C's and meet like minded people.... Clique tends to be a word used by people who can't seem to make friends ;D ;D ;D
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Behave Colin ............Every organisation has cliques and indeed that's what the NCCA's been criticised for by many on here who either imagined it to be the case or possibly found it to be so.
Human nature causes cliques to form and " outsiders " will always feel unwelcome or threatened in some way, so will either go off with " like minded " friends / colleagues and without realising it form their own cliques.
What constitutes a clique is theoretically groups of like minded individuals working together to protect their own interests and dominate the social or working environment to disadvantage others.
Problem is, it takes strong leadership to make EVERYONE feel INCLUDED and TRANSPARENT organisation / sharing of benefits / opportunity for everyone to achieve the highest level within the organisation for the least confident to feel WELCOME and INCLUDED.
Anyone who's been in education or training will understand what I'm saying it's not theory it's just understanding human behaviour and being able to communicate to the masses NOT just the followers.
Have a Happy Easter
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Robert.... ;D ;D ;D = Leg pulling ;)
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Hi Guys
Robert is of course right but this is to be expected at an early stage.
There has to be a group of people starting the organisation and they need to be reasonably like minded, otherwise it would be all talk and no action.
Imagine having 100 people all with their own agenda's, paralysis would ensue and absolutely nothing would happen.
This means there are some who feel they would be as well/better qualified who perceive themselves to be outsiders and this causes resentmemt.
My advice to anyone who wants to have an influence is to join and work constructively from within.
Cheers
Doug
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Mr Muscle how dont you do a course on Oven Cleaning at CCDO.
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Darren
Probably because it has nowt to do with carpet cleaning. :D
The clues in the title - Carpet Cleaners Day Out
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I dont want to sound critical but what is amusing me is that more then a few on this forum have criticised the NCCA because of the 2 day course culminating in a 1 hour tick box type test.
Now we have CLEAN with a much shorter course and a even shorter test - and this seems highly acceptable to most of those that were critical before.
Some were saying I am not joining NCCA because I have to take a "simple" test - why should I when I am an experienced carpet cleaner. Now they quiet happy at the thought of taking a shorter "simple" test, even though they have gained more experience.
Unlike Simon Sharon Glyn and Karen, I am prepared to wait to see how things unfold in its entirety presumably when a statement is made after its official launch on Apr 11th.
I agree with Dougs point, if you have 100's all making comments you dont get anywhere. Have you ever been on a committee of more then 1 - problems start to arise. ;)
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I appreciate your comments Joe - I can assure you though, that the exam will be far from "simple"
Have a good Easter.
Steve
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Joe they also do natural stone cleaning whats that got to do with carpet cleaning, hard floors,fire and flood its all about making money.
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Mr Muscle how dont you do a course on Oven Cleaning at CCDO.
Ta! I could get use to being called Mr Muscle.... Shame most of my muscle is my mouth ;D ;D ;D
This something I was going to ask at this years event about for next year. It is a great little add on for less than a price for taking an advert out in YP for a year and I've found oven cleaning has kept me in the game.... Just!
They could have an oven cleaners day out I suppose..... OCD Out!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Ok Darren, but I think hard floors and flood have a lot more in common with carpets - we have most of the gear to cope with them. To me oven cleaning is a different ball game.
Some carpet cleaners do window cleaning but I wouldnt expect to see window cleaning on the agenda at CCDO, although there was a WINEX and CARPEX exhibition in the same hall couple weeks ago (for cost convinence I reckon.
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I am just wondering , I have been in carpet cleaning 18 years now , 10 of them in Chem-Dry, I have never used a porty, and used a TM for only a few weeks. I have never has an insurance claim for damage to a carpet ,and always enjoyed lots of repeat and referral work.
I know little about chemistry, HWE, and other theory.
What I do know about is customer care, health and safety, sales and marketing.
I feel that any exam that is not simple will be failed by me , making me ineligible to join clean, even though I have successfully cleaned carpets for years.
Surely admission to CLEAN could be by industry experience, proven via customer verification.
I will take the exam, the above is just a thought though.
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Jason Give us a quick resume...............
I presume you have mostly been doing bonneting ....... what gear have you had the success with (inc fluids)
whats your tm you got?
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Behave Colin ............Every organisation has cliques and indeed that's what the NCCA's been criticised for by many on here who either imagined it to be the case or possibly found it to be so.
Human nature causes cliques to form and " outsiders " will always feel unwelcome or threatened in some way, so will either go off with " like minded " friends / colleagues and without realising it form their own cliques.
What constitutes a clique is theoretically groups of like minded individuals working together to protect their own interests and dominate the social or working environment to disadvantage others.
Problem is, it takes strong leadership to make EVERYONE feel INCLUDED and TRANSPARENT organisation / sharing of benefits / opportunity for everyone to achieve the highest level within the organisation for the least confident to feel WELCOME and INCLUDED.
Anyone who's been in education or training will understand what I'm saying it's not theory it's just understanding human behaviour and being able to communicate to the masses NOT just the followers.
Have a Happy Easter
gonna look like hellraiser the movie soon with all these nails on the head.
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There's no such thing as GOOD test or a DEFINITIVE exam.............but there needs to be a starting point for any organisation that's attempting to raise public perception / credibility.
Perhaps it might have been better to name the EXAM an ASSESSMENT with a view to formulating a TRAINING PROGRAMME after all assessments had been collated and given the assessors a starting point on which to build a training programme.
There'll be a strong resistence to sitting an exam ( human nature again ) and it might be worth introducing an online test which would follow a paid for training package .
For the doubters.............this is a well tried format and although it seems over simplistic the learning still has to take place in order to give the answers. Quick / easy / effective.
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I dont want to sound critical but what is amusing me is that more then a few on this forum have criticised the NCCA because of the 2 day course culminating in a 1 hour tick box type test.
That'll be me then ;D And I don't want to repeat myself but there are people out there with NCCA badges all over their websites and vehicles who one day decided to take up carpet cleaning, did the course, pass the exam and still without a real clue what they are doing are advertising themselves as experts.
Now we have CLEAN with a much shorter course and a even shorter test - and this seems highly acceptable to most of those that were critical before.
Where did this idea of a course come from, there is no course. It just so happens to be happening at the same time as a carpet cleaners get together. this exam if you want to call it that is to see who has the actual experience/knowledge of carpet cleaning through doing the actual job.
very different.
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Hi jasonl,
I think you have answered your own question as to why you have to sit an exam.
To join this type of body you have to SHOW a level of competence/knowledge by passing an exam.
You state you know very little about chemicals,these are a very important part of cleaning.
Before any body can recommend you they have to be confident that you have the knowledge
and experience to carry out the job without problems.
I understand that you have never had a problem with any jobs before but that was in a field you
were trained for using a limited range of products.
Do you understand all about carpet construction,fibres,soil levels,dye migration.and how to avoid
shrinkage etc? not to mention how to avoid bitumen bleed.
If you do understand then what's the problem you should pass the exam.
Expro
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i wouldn't pass the exam, fact.
would my customers swap me for one that does pass the exam. no chance.
does this have any relevance? no idea but when your on the tenth episode of "jay jay the jet plane" you tend to write anything to try and keep sane ;D
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It was Rainbow and Button Moon when my kids were little, Derek.
4 or 5 hours of that and you're a gibbering wreck ;D
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It was Rainbow and Button Moon when my kids were little, Derek.
4 or 5 hours of that and you're a gibbering wreck ;D
i will know how you feel in a week or so :o
Andrew
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rainbow was for adults wasn't it? ;D
you wanna try watching "dirtgirl world" (no not that dirtgirl world ;D) its a new kids one where the cartoon characters have real eyes and mouths, it effin freaks me out maaaaan. ;D
good luck with that andrew, people think you can't sleep cos the baby keeps you awake, its not that, its the bloody tunes from the cartoons going round and round in your head. ;D
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Hi jasonl,
I think you have answered your own question as to why you have to sit an exam.
To join this type of body you have to SHOW a level of competence/knowledge by passing an exam.
You state you know very little about chemicals,these are a very important part of cleaning.
Before any body can recommend you they have to be confident that you have the knowledge
and experience to carry out the job without problems.
I understand that you have never had a problem with any jobs before but that was in a field you
were trained for using a limited range of products.
Do you understand all about carpet construction,fibres,soil levels,dye migration.and how to avoid
shrinkage etc? not to mention how to avoid bitumen bleed.
If you do understand then what's the problem you should pass the exam.
Expro
For example, I know how to avoid shrinkage ,using LM cleaning, however ,using HWE I would not have a clue.
I can recognise wool , over say polyprop, I have no clue how to test for each using a burn test.
I have always avoided bitumen bleed, by not over applying solvents , this was common sense though that if you need a training course to tell you, frankly you should not be in the job.
Dye migration , I used to test for this , not this century though , since bleeders can be spotted immediately with experience.
Carpet construction ,, I know little about it , I do know , by sight , which carpets respond well to cleaning and which do not.
Guess I am a bad cleaner then?
When I joined the BDMA and passed the exam nearly 10 years ago, we were given a book with the syllabus in it, the questions in the exam were taken from this. I would say this is a lot fairer than an exam to find needs out, but that if you do not pass you cannot join the CLEAN.
So is the exam to test for knowledge? or to allow membership to CLEAN? or both?
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Good luck andrew
Robert,
Your posts are spot on and in hindsight perhaps "assessment" would have been more suitable. It is hard to avoid the perception of a clique and it's only by inclusion that we can avoid this. Obviously it does'nt help with the "serial distracters" and this also creates a perception of us and them but we've said it before and still mean it, anyone who wants to "pitch in" will be welcome (lord knows there is enough to do).
Only time will prove our intentions and people can make their own minds up about that for now. But be aware, this is going to work and everyone will benefit, not just C.L.E.A.N members (although their gain will be far greater) and you can quote me on that ;)
Pete
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Good luck andrew
Robert,
Your posts are spot on and in hindsight perhaps "assessment" would have been more suitable. It is hard to avoid the perception of a clique and it's only by inclusion that we can avoid this. Obviously it does'nt help with the "serial distracters" and this also creates a perception of us and them but we've said it before and still mean it, anyone who wants to "pitch in" will be welcome (lord knows there is enough to do).
Only time will prove our intentions and people can make their own minds up about that for now. But be aware, this is going to work and everyone will benefit, not just C.L.E.A.N members (although their gain will be far greater) and you can quote me on that ;)
Pete
i think someones missed roberts point, all though i could be wrong
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For example, I know how to avoid shrinkage ,using LM cleaning, however ,using HWE I would not have a clue.
I can recognise wool , over say polyprop, I have no clue how to test for each using a burn test.
I have always avoided bitumen bleed, by not over applying solvents , this was common sense though that if you need a training course to tell you, frankly you should not be in the job.
Dye migration , I used to test for this , not this century though , since bleeders can be spotted immediately with experience.
Carpet construction ,, I know little about it , I do know , by sight , which carpets respond well to cleaning and which do not.
Guess I am a bad cleaner then?
Jasonl
Knowledge about carpet construction/fibres is a must have because you can then spot a carpet that will
shrink before you clean it.!!
It is also worth knowing that bitumen bleed is not just caused by solvents.It can also be caused by waterbased
products
Expro
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With LM cleaning I have found that a well fitted carpet has more of an influence on shrinkage risk than what the actual construction of the carpet is.. I will take the exam ,, out of interest.
I really want CLEAN to work out and would like to take an actice part in it.
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It is also worth knowing that bitumen bleed is not just caused by solvents.It can also be caused by waterbased
products
Expro
can you name a couple for me for future reference
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It is also worth knowing that bitumen bleed is not just caused by solvents.It can also be caused by waterbased
products
Expro
can you name a couple for me for future reference
I can name one Derek... Water, very hot water, I have seen it happe a few times.
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Glynn
Derek Walker gave me £100 in cash today to the John Gregory fund and did'nt want it to be mentioned. Thats a gent in the true form. How much will you and Simon be contributing?
Pete
What an appalling way to get one upmanship, you said yourself he didnt want it mentioned so why are you going against his wishes??????
if you cant respect someones request for anonymity what else do you have you no respect for?
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What no one else has picked up on is, are those who are setting out the questions, qualified to do so ? Are they industry standards or their own interpretations??
If they are industry standards then anyone who has passed the NCCA should pass.
I could see some people who have been in the industry for quite a few years, and done loads of exams, could be upset to some degree by being more qualified than those setting out the exam questions.
This is not a knock just an observation.
Regards
Daryl
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Jasonl
I am neither for nor against C.L.E.A.N but I will not join them.
I do think it is time for you to"stop digging now".
Expro
ps
Re Bitumen bleed
Alkaline products with a hidden solvent content can also cause it
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Daryl
The exam questions have been compiled by Doug Holloway - there aren't too many guys with more knowledge and experience.
As far as being industry approved is concerned - someone with zero experience in carpet cleaning can pass the NCCA exam.
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Daryl
SPOT ON .
WILL CLEAN PLEASE BE OPEN AND ABOVE BOARD AND SAY WHO HAS SET THE QUESTIONS TO
THE EXAM /ASSESSMENT?
Just seen it is Doug Holloway.
What is his experience as a lecturer for a manufacturer or industry approved training organisation.?
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Jasonl
I am neither for nor against C.L.E.A.N but I will not join them.
I do think it is time for you to"stop digging now".
Expro
ps
Re Bitumen bleed
Alkaline products with a hidden solvent content can also cause it
sorry, thought you said "other than solvent"
anyway we've done tests and waterbased solvents don't seem to have much effect on bitumen.
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Steve i agree totally what you said about the NCCA. Thats why i said they SHOULD pass.
Doug may be knowlegeable and experienced, but is he qualified? Its just an observation because i thought that you have to be qualified ie teachers etc before you set exams.
No disrespect to Doug its just a question.
Regards
Daryl
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sorry, thought you said "other than solvent
anyway we've done tests and waterbased solvents don't seem to have much effect on bitumen.
Derek
Over application of some traffic lane cleaners and a long dwell time can cause bitumen bleed as
can failure to remove citrus based products.
Expro
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sorry, thought you said "other than solvent
anyway we've done tests and waterbased solvents don't seem to have much effect on bitumen.
Derek
Over application of some traffic lane cleaners and a long dwell time can cause bitumen bleed as
can failure to remove citrus based products.
Expro
name one, i'll do a test.
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Hi Daryl
Why do you need to be qualified as a teacher to compile questions for an exam ? This is an entrance exam for membership acceptance into CLEAN.
I would suggest that with Doug's technical background he is more qualified than most to set the questions.
Steve
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Derek
I Won't name them on this Forum but try propriety brands and use them hot [65c].
Also try citrus products worked in and only blotted out.
It's true that citrus/ traffic lane products should be safe if used as intended but it also
depends on the age of the bitumen backed tiles.
Expro
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Steve
Without industry trained and approved trainers the associations credibility has to to be
questioned.
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Jeez, who said anything about training so why would they need a qualified TRAINER?
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Hi Steve , i didnt mean to be qualified as a teacher, a teacher is qualified to set questions to pupils.
Qualifications in carpet cleaning to set questions for carpet cleaners.
Regards
Daryl
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Expro
With respect, our credibility and very existence has been questioned since the day we launched.
The bottom line is - if you want to join CLEAN you have to pass an entrance exam set by one of the Directors of CLEAN.
Steve
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expro
tried citra boost neat, rubbed in and still no transfer, left it on for, well its still on there now and still no bleed.
not tried it hot though, might try that now as i really am fed up of jay jay the jet plane :(
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my next experiment, mwa! mwa! mwahhhhh mwahhhhh haaaa haaaaaaaa
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Just to clarify, Derek did not say don't say anything as he was not looking for any praise but on the basis that it might spur others to be generous then he and I agreed we would mention it.
Pete
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expro
tried citra boost neat, rubbed in and still no transfer, left it on for, well its still on there now and still no bleed.
not tried it hot though, might try that now as i really am fed up of jay jay the jet plane :(
Derek ,, Bitumen can bleed in hot weather especially when magnified through glass on a very hot day. Probably this problem would best be corrected using a low moisture method.
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Jay Jay Whoops!!!! Sorry Derek
Leave it on for a long period like overnight.
The reason I say this is because some people agitate it in and just blot out without
rinsing it away. That's where the problems come from especially on spot removal
and on very old tiles its even quicker.
Expro
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jason, when bitumen bleeds it pointless trying anything me young, its what they call a lost cause. we forced bitumen to bleed on a test and theres no reversing it back.
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Derek , I have corrected it severel times , I did one on Wednesday, looked at it Thursday and it is fine.
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Just to clarify, Derek did not say don't say anything as he was not looking for any praise but on the basis that it might spur others to be generous then he and I agreed we would mention it.
Pete
i'm sure your a lovely bloke pete but FM you can't half dig some deep holes ;D
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Well done Jason.
Have you any photo's of the removal of bitumen bleed?
Expro
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Derek ;D ;D
You can smell it from here ;D
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Hi guys
I have set most of the questions in consultation with other experienced cleaners.
My qualifications are as such, 9 o levels, 3 a levels, degree chemistry specialising in plastics.
6 years as research and development chemist, two as technical manager.
Part of my duties was to instruct in the implementation of BS 5750, later to become ISO 9001.
During this I developed quality systems which were aimed at differing levels of workforce, some technical, some sales and some shop floor.
Also spent 4 years as technical salesman for Borden Chemicals, attending various sales courses, such as Tack International, which was one of the top sales/presentation courses at the time.
I first started carpet cleaning in 1971 at Marks and Spencers head quarters in Baker Street, London at the tender age of 13, this obviously being a Saturday job.
I had my own business carpet and office cleaning business in the the City from 82-86 and have been running this business in Essex since 1989.
I have also developed various cleaning chemicals.
I would never claim to know everything.
Cheers
doug
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Part of my duties was to instruct in the implementation of BS 5750, later to become ISO 9001.
During this I developed quality systems which were aimed at differing levels of workforce, some technical, some sales and some shop floor.
Blimey, not heard BS5750 in years, I used to do similar in the late 70's/early 80's - when I did it it was still Def Stan 05-27. ;D
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So what we all going to talk about when this is over...Oh o forgot everybody has fallen out...
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Now that we have got Doug's potted history - we only need to know what he did between 1986 and 1989 ;)
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While you lot have been winding eachother up on here, I've started and completed my DIY chore for the whole weekend!!! The wife's very happy :o Now I'm gonna get sloshed on wine for the rest of it... Call it a DIY victory p**s up ;D ;D ;D
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Before anyone says anything, I forgot to buy handles ;D
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colin
if that before and after is anything to go by, no wonder youve hit a platteau ;D
thats the seafood diet ;D
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When I first looked I thought you'd just cleaned up.
Never noticed the cupboards.
Looks a nice job though.
John
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colin
if that before and after is anything to go by, no wonder youve hit a platteau ;D
thats the seafood diet ;D
;D ;D ;D I've actually just dipped under 13 stone!... Cheers for the advice on the other channel mate!
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When I first looked I thought you'd just cleaned up.
Never noticed the cupboards.
Looks a nice job though.
John
Thank you John, I see what you mean though :D
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When I first looked I thought you'd just cleaned up.
Never noticed the cupboards.
Looks a nice job though.
John
ohhhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh, cheers john
nice job col,
is it me or are they slightly wonky ;D
only joking, made ya look though
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Hi guys
I have set most of the questions in consultation with other experienced cleaners.
My qualifications are as such, 9 o levels, 3 a levels, degree chemistry specialising in plastics.
6 years as research and development chemist, two as technical manager.
Part of my duties was to instruct in the implementation of BS 5750, later to become ISO 9001.
During this I developed quality systems which were aimed at differing levels of workforce, some technical, some sales and some shop floor.
Also spent 4 years as technical salesman for Borden Chemicals, attending various sales courses, such as Tack International, which was one of the top sales/presentation courses at the time.
Doug,
The qualifications are very impressive,
But someone is missing the point, what has that got to do with carpet cleaning?
My original post was asking about qualifications in carpet cleaning.
Stephen Hawkins is highly qualified, but a carpet cleaner he aint!!!
I'm not having a dig, i was just asking a question.
Regards
Daryl
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Daryl
I understand where you're coming from, but consider this.
I've been in the carpet industry for 29 years.
I'm an NICF trained fitter at Brintons factory and 29 years time served.
Prochem trained in carpet and upholstery cleaning 13 years ago.
NCCA trained.
IICRC certified firm.
IICRC trained in carpet cleaning, upholstery cleaning, hard floor cleaning.
LTT trained in leather cleaning.
But despite all of that I don't consider my knowledge, either practical or technical to be a patch on what Doug knows.
Make of that what you will.
Regards
Steve
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Steve,
If Doug had come on here and shown the training / qualification that you have, then i'm sure it would have shown some background in all aspects of carpet cleaning, not just chemistry. As you know there are plenty of carpet cleaners, from various backgrounds, out there who have been going for years but still dont know how to clean carpets, correctly, because they have had NO training.
It was meant to be a very simple question.
Many Thanks
Daryl
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I probably would not pass the NCCA,iicrc or CLEAN exams , does that mean I am not a competent or good carpet cleaner? Of course not.
On Tuesday I cleaned a large area in one of the , if not the best hotel in the New Forest, I have cleaned areas there for the last 8 months, I was chatting to the owner who says that he will continue to use me and that my buffer system is the best system he had seen. He has had several TM operators clean and shrink his carpets,leave them wet for 2-3 days ,and fail to remove stains that I did.
The next day I cleaned some upholstery in a restaurant in Poole , the owner wanted the carpets in his hall/stairs/landing cleaned , and said he wanted a TM to do the work, so I have another operator coming to do the job.
What I am saying is that service, reliability, and image are just as important as knowledge of this or that cleaning method.
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Colin, that shot was before the operation ;D ;D
Jason
you would pass the NCCA exam as there is training before, thats what some people dont like, me included. Because someone can come from any background, do the course, sit the exam and then call themselves "professional carpet cleaners" and have never put their hands on any kind of equipment.
Daryl
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Good call Daryll!
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Jason
you would pass the NCCA exam as there is training before, thats what some people dont like, me included. Because someone can come from any background, do the course, sit the exam and then call themselves "professional carpet cleaners" and have never put their hands on any kind of equipment.
Daryl
When did the NCCA change the format? I took 3 courses in 1993 on separate occasions, Upholstery cleaning, Carpet cleaning & stain treatment. Each of those was then followed up with an in depth question paper which I took away. These had to be answered within a certain time as a postal exam with at least a paragraph answer to each question. My returned answers were like a bloody phone directory, and lest we forget no internet then ;D I never questioned their training then, 3 passes meant you would be invited to join with proof of insurance, Derek Bolton and Paul Pierce hosted the courses. Second to none. I was a member in 1993/94 but beyond that could not see a benefit. I can understand the scepticism if it has changed so much, it was hard work and in depth.
Simon
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[quote author=cleaningmaster link=topic=94052.msg840060#msg840060 date=127024213
Jason
you would pass the NCCA exam as there is training before, thats what some people dont like, me included. Because someone can come from any background, do the course, sit the exam and then call themselves "professional carpet cleaners" and have never put their hands on any kind of equipment.
Daryl
Copied from the new NCCA website (but its aim has stayed the same)
The principal objective of the NCCA is the establishment and maintenance of minimum standards within the carpet and upholstery cleaning industry,
Note it refers to MINIMUM standards........ so NCCA does not claim when you take its course and pass the exam you become a "professional".
If individuals are claiming they are professionals simple because they passed the NCCA exam then they are claiming something in their imagination and stretching the truth to suit there own marketing aims.
but that is nothing new, I see websites etc that claim "your carpets will be cleaned using the most powerful machine on the market" and then you see a photo of an old 2 vac machine. Thats stretching the truth for marketing purposes but whose fault is it - the carpet cleaner or the machine manufacturer? Clearly the machine manufacturer has no control of what a carpet cleaner may say.
Like wise if a carpet cleaner wants to claim they are a "professional" simply because they took a 2 day course and passed an exam has nothing to do with the organisation conducting the exam.
Now, if CLEAN are not doing any training before an exam then they can only be targeting experience carpet cleaners. Thats fine as their aim, in part, is to educate the public in awareness of what a high quality carpet clean can do for their quality of life.
However,there is still going to be a need to provide training to provide a minimum standard, and that is one reason why I would have preferred the energies of CLEAN to join with the experience and infrastructure of NCCA - buy hey, I am not involved with the decision making of the CLEAN nor the NCCA.
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NCCA certification proves you have attended training and passed their entrance examination. This gratifies the customer that you are of a certain attitude, which can only benefit you and your business, and places you in a better position than that of the self taught, unqualified operator.
Those who claim to be qualified by experience alone, miss the point that, 20 years of so called experience could actually be 20 years of making the same mistakes.
Dave.
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Dave you are 100% right.
Expro
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I took the NCCA course and exam after years CC and learned allot. Exam too easy though.
The Woolsafe exam that you take away is suburb it forces you to thoroughly read the textbook in order to answer the very in depth questions. Took me a few hours to complete.
mark
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Poole??
That's a long way from Sheffield, hope you got a good price.
John
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I was a member of the ncca years ago after doing the course,I found it of little or no use to either myself or indeed the customers.
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I'm the complete opposite to you Glyn
I promote NCCA to my benefit, extoling the benefits to the customer.
It works - just last week a lady contacted me, I sold myself including the NCCA part of (I am just an ordainary member) and she said I am not going to bother ringing around I'll just book you. Job getting done this coming week. I get the benefit of getting an income, custy gets the benefit of a top notch service. I win, she wins
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i do the same as joe only with T.A.C.C.A. customers happy, i'm happy, everybody happy ;D
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i do the same as joe only with T.A.C.C.A.
Who?
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"exactly" neil.
and until a customer has a clue then we could easily say anyone.
me to my customer..........
"i may i just add mrs smith i am a member of the " Complete British Ombudsmen Leadership Legislation Of Cleaners in Knutsford"
heres my badge
complete
B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S. ;D
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Derek,
Regardless of the subject, how intense the 'discussion' you always seem to make such a valid point and make me bust my belt laughing.
Made my day that one ;D
Cheers
Simon
B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S. Indeed!
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Very true ;D
Like derek is doing just keep woking hard and you will get good returns either way join a set up or just go it alone without one and it wont stop you getting on ;D
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Poole??
That's a long way from Sheffield, hope you got a good price.
John
I live in Bournemouth half the time
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NCCA certification proves you have attended training and passed their entrance examination. This gratifies the customer that you are of a certain attitude, which can only benefit you and your business, and places you in a better position than that of the self taught, unqualified operator.
Those who claim to be qualified by experience alone, miss the point that, 20 years of so called experience could actually be 20 years of making the same mistakes.
Dave.
Yes it is ok having 20 years experience so long at in year 20 you are not doing things the same way as year 1.
In 2001 when I imported/built the first flood drying trailer in the UK so many so called experts said the heat was bad to dry buildings, is was the wrong way, it will never take off et etc , Now every major company uses them , they are considered the only way to dry big water damage situations, or to dry quickly.
What I am saying is there are 100 right ways to clean a carpet , and a thousand wrong ones, things are easily over complicated by some. I would say preventing damage ,health and safety and customer relations are needed as part of any exam.
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Jason ,
regarding that chap in the hotel, saying that he wont use anyone with a Truckmount, it wasn't the Truckmount that shrunk the carpet it was the numpty on the end of the wand. I think that is what a lot of people on here are on about..... training or lack of
Regards
Daryl
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He has owned the hotel for 13 years and he named 4 of the companies wit a TM ,, I will tell you who they are when I see you ,, 2 of them post on here.
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Then they need training ;)
A TM gives the deepest clean, period, but you cant use it on all carpets.
Daryl
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They probably were trained , this not not mean that they will practice what they were taught.
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Being a member of an organisation or association does not make you a professional, it makes you a member of an organisation or association.
Being a professional is more about attitude than capability. Passing exams and joining an association demonstrates a part of the person's attitude and their ability to take in and retain information.
I understand that the CLEAN examination is going to incorporate many aspects of running a successful carpet cleaning business which in my opinion will give more weight to the wearing of the CLEAN 'badge' than other associations and should give the customer a greater degree of comfort when employing that company.
However, it still relies on the customer having heard of the association and it still doesn't mean that the person is a professional. Cleaning carpets for a living does not make you a professional carpet cleaner. Cleaning carpets in the most approriate manner for the carpet involved, with the customer's interests at heart, to the best of your ability and to the satisfaction of the customer makes you a professional carpet cleaner.
Whilst I will not be joining CLEAN at this time, I firmly believe that they intend to educate the customers so that they understand the level of service they should get from a professional and that this will result in more professional carpet cleaners and fewer 'cowboy' carpet cleaners being in business.
I wish them good luck in this venture.
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Being a member of an organisation or association does not make you a professional, it makes you a member of an organisation or association.
Being a professional is more about attitude than capability. Passing exams and joining an association demonstrates a part of the person's attitude and their ability to take in and retain information.
I understand that the CLEAN examination is going to incorporate many aspects of running a successful carpet cleaning business which in my opinion will give more weight to the wearing of the CLEAN 'badge' than other associations and should give the customer a greater degree of comfort when employing that company.
However, it still relies on the customer having heard of the association and it still doesn't mean that the person is a professional. Cleaning carpets for a living does not make you a professional carpet cleaner. Cleaning carpets in the most approriate manner for the carpet involved, with the customer's interests at heart, to the best of your ability and to the satisfaction of the customer makes you a professional carpet cleaner.
Whilst I will not be joining CLEAN at this time, I firmly believe that they intend to educate the customers so that they understand the level of service they should get from a professional and that this will result in more professional carpet cleaners and fewer 'cowboy' carpet cleaners being in business.
I wish them good luck in this venture.
VERY WELL PUT ANDY,
Expro
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[
I understand that the CLEAN examination is going to incorporate many aspects of running a successful carpet cleaning business which in my opinion will give more weight to the wearing of the CLEAN 'badge' than other associations and should give the customer a greater degree of comfort when employing that company.
Well said,
however each runs their business differently to each other, what works for one doesnt work for another.
Regards
Daryl