Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: davids3511 on February 07, 2010, 08:52:19 pm
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Ok, this isn't about bashing Gardiners, I think their producs and service is great.
However, I recently asked for a quote for the top 3 sections for my SLX30 and was given a price of £270.00 plus VAT. To me, this is taking the Michael. A new 25ft SLX is only £46.00 more and comes with a brush and pole hose.
An 18ft is only £186 on their website which is 3 foot more than I need and also comes with free brush and pole hose. Why is my 15ft replacement sections so much more expensive? Not a happy bunny. Feel Gardiners are ripping me off.
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Did you ask them why? There might have been a mistake.
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Did you ask them why? There might have been a mistake.
Not had a chance. They wrote it all down for me and included it with a delivery. I didn't get it until Friday evening.
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maybe have to get sections made up and cost is high
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maybe have to get sections made up and cost is high
So how do they get them made up for the complete poles then?
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three top sections should be less than an 18ft pole not more expensive.
I would like to know the outcome as I will need the same and another 30ft pole shortly, and if this is true I will be looking else where as the slx wears very quick, shame as is nice and light.
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three top sections should be less than an 18ft pole not more expensive.
I would like to know the outcome as I will need the same and another 30ft pole shortly, and if this is true I will be looking else where as the slx wears very quick, shame as is nice and light.
I agree, I couldn't believe the price. Apparantly if I had a MK1 pole it would have been £245, not £270. What niggles me more is that the pole is only 10 months old and wear has been a serious issue. I take care of the pole, I regularly wash it out and always clean down the pole hose if it is gritty. I almost always wipe it down every time it goes back in the van.
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Stop yer moaning! Wait 'till you buy superlight base sections at £100 each!
The price of carbon is pretty high and also Gardiners have cornered the market for the time being I feel.
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Stop yer moaning! Wait 'till you buy superlight base sections at £100 each!
The price of carbon is pretty high and also Gardiners have cornered the market for the time being I feel.
Each section is £105.75 inc vat so I am there already. The price of carbon has nothing to do with it. If it had the price of the different poles would all be relative to each other. As it stands a 4 section 18ft pole with pole hose and brush is almost £100.00 cheaper than my 15ft 3 sections.
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Yes that does seem odd. Give them a call.
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I have to agree the wear on the pole is poor mine is 10 months old and im always cleaning it at every job and hosing it when i get home.
James
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I wouldn't mind the wear too much if the sections were a bit less of a rip off. It is a great pole and very light. I will be upset if it isn't a mistake as I will have to look at alternatives on the market but I really don't want to.
I was basing my logic on the fact I needed a new 18ft GF pole every year anyway and was hoping that if i replaced the odd section every now and again the cost of ownership after the initial outlay on the SLX wouldn't be much higher. However, it looks like I was very wrong.
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What are you basing your wear limit on? Mine is a year old nearly and yes it has worn but I think there is loads left in it yet.
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i couldn't believe how much the sl2 sections had gone up. I think my first replacement section was about 60 odd quid 12 months ago. i bought on the other day to the tune of a hundred and ten!
great pole to use but lots of flaws still and expensive to maintain
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i couldn't believe how much the sl2 sections had gone up. I think my first replacement section was about 60 odd quid 12 months ago. i bought on the other day to the tune of a hundred and ten!
great pole to use but lots of flaws still and expensive to maintain
After reading your post I had to check and was shocked to see it has gone up so much. It must be a mis-print on their website surely!! like you, the last time I bought a section was last year and £50 plus VAT sticks in my mind.
I will be very disappointed if it is correct as I have always highly rated Gardiner in their service and fair pricing. Alex - If you want to send me a private email its info@ro-sheen.co.uk
Adie
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It could be that the poor guy just doesn't want to stock/sell them anymore for some reason and has raised the price because of it.
I've done the very same thing to customers I dont want anymore, I hike the price way up to a silly amount - if they say "no thank you" great, but if they agree to pay the silly price then at least it's worthwhile to keep going.
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Compare to Brodex, whates there prices like ?
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Compare to Brodex, whates there prices like ?
I do not think this has anything to do with another company, it is in regards to the price of 3 sections them being a lot more expensive that a 4 section pole with brush and fittings which if true does not look good
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I am about to ask about this very same point and I will let you know the result (top three sections of SLX30/35.)
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i couldn't believe how much the sl2 sections had gone up. I think my first replacement section was about 60 odd quid 12 months ago. i bought on the other day to the tune of a hundred and ten!
great pole to use but lots of flaws still and expensive to maintain
After reading your post I had to check and was shocked to see it has gone up so much. It must be a mis-print on their website surely!! like you, the last time I bought a section was last year and £50 plus VAT sticks in my mind.
I will be very disappointed if it is correct as I have always highly rated Gardiner in their service and fair pricing. Alex - If you want to send me a private email its info@ro-sheen.co.uk
Adie
it is correct as i had to buy the number 1 section and it cost me about £117 delivered i think.
i then had to order the fibre glass top section and thread and that was £27 delivered. pretty damn expensive for a 3 inch tube and screw end fitting
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Cloud with a silver lining to report here - I spoke to "Sam" (Samantha, I guess) this lunchtime, who told me the top three sections for an SLX30 are £299 inc. vat and delivery. She did assure me that as Gardiners had sold loads of SLX's of that type that they are going to continue to supply "spares" for them indefinitely.
So for me, although I am disappointed at the high price (I would have thought £200 would for the three smallest sections would have been about "fair") I feel at least they will be obtainable when I need them.
Although after ten and a half months of constant use wear is showing, I reckon there is life left in it (as there should be!) as long as I keep painting on the "pull-out" stop indicators which for some reason soon wear off - especially on the second section.
By wiping the pole hose after every job (and occasionally before raising the pole in the middle of a dusty/gritty job) and especially using a self-made hose tidy I think you can extend the SLX' life appreciably.
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Why is it alex does not post on here anymore?
I am sure he would have looked in to this for you!
If he fell out with someone, i would bet he still reads these topics,
he has had lots of custom from this forum, a little unfair to vanish , and he was also brilliant with advice,....
so alex, if you are reading, please re-start your postings on here and dont let an odd person or view spoil it for you, and the rest of us.
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he has had lots of custom from this forum, a little unfair to vanish , and he was also brilliant with advice,....
I read about Alex from this forum couple of years ago as well. Now we supply GPS poles to Russia. No vanish. His advices were perfect, indeed. Glad I could speak to him and have his professional support and now also, and do agree ...
so alex, if you are reading, please re-start your postings on here...
Vadim
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I'm sure others will second and third that. His advice was textbook, but it must have been stressful when posters started being more belligerent,and getting him into trouble by making constant sales enquiries on here.The slx launch was a big thing for him and for us, basically the best pole ever and at an affordable price.Their were some cam lever and plastic nut issues, which the majority of us felt he dealt with brilliantly and in a very straight forward manner. None the less Familiarity breeds contemp and how he put up with it for as long as he did i don't know.
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Anyway Clive wheres this pic of your poxy logo gone? :-*
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I'm sure others will second and third that. His advice was textbook, but it must have been stressful when posters started being more belligerent,and getting him into trouble by making constant sales enquiries on here.The slx launch was a big thing for him and for us, basically the best pole ever and at an affordable price.Their were some cam lever and plastic nut issues, which the majority of us felt he dealt with brilliantly and in a very straight forward manner. None the less Familiarity breeds contemp and how he put up with it for as long as he did i don't know.
Ditto - well said SB
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any dealing si had with him were excellent
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i no they have changed the carbon i have the pole when they first come out and now have the new 35 and the 35 does wear down fast and you get a really black hand at the end of the day makes sense to them if it wears down fast more money for them .. ::)
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Ok, this isn't about bashing Gardiners, I think their producs and service is great.
However, I recently asked for a quote for the top 3 sections for my SLX30 and was given a price of £270.00 plus VAT. To me, this is taking the Michael. A new 25ft SLX is only £46.00 more and comes with a brush and pole hose.
An 18ft is only £186 on their website which is 3 foot more than I need and also comes with free brush and pole hose. Why is my 15ft replacement sections so much more expensive? Not a happy bunny. Feel Gardiners are ripping me off.
someone is laughing all the way to the bank no wonder hes not on here any more hes not got the time because hes to busy counting his millions.feel gardiners are ripping me off yes that is what has happened. shocking :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o sick very very sick!!!
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Who made the decision to buy your pole ???
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This topic is starting to fragment, and the Alex bashers are beginning to become more vociferous...
To come on hear and start slating companies or individuals without due cause, or to speculate on how they are running their business is quite possibly bordering on libel.
I suggest that you contact Gardiners direct and ask them for an explanation as to why these replacement sections are so expensive, else everything else written here is mere conjecture.
You can post their explanation on here.....except that others with absolutely no understanding of what is involved will offer up yet more ridiculous reasons why Gardiners are ripping them off.
If Alex has wiped his hands of the forum I don't blame him.
Ian
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Surely people are allowed to express their opinions!! Persanally I had to replace my pole last week :( It cost me less than £20 from B&Q! :) Good old Harris poles... can't beat em!!! ;)
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i think the slx is a mint pole a bit pricey yes wear quickly yes but in genral a great pole to use day in day out,yup i had issues with the clamps rang gardiners new set of clamps next day,what more do u want from a supplier?if you have problems wit wear or sections braking is it not worth ringing a pole doctor might b cheaper to have the sections refurbed?just a thought....
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This topic is starting to fragment, and the Alex bashers are beginning to become more vociferous...
To come on hear and start slating companies or individuals without due cause, or to speculate on how they are running their business is quite possibly bordering on libel.
I suggest that you contact Gardiners direct and ask them for an explanation as to why these replacement sections are so expensive, else everything else written here is mere conjecture.
You can post their explanation on here.....except that others with absolutely no understanding of what is involved will offer up yet more ridiculous reasons why Gardiners are ripping them off.
If Alex has wiped his hands of the forum I don't blame him.
Ian
With all due respect Ian you’re wrong, people are just commenting on the price and quality of the products, which is perfectly normal behaviour for customers of any product.
The over the top personal comment from individuals are just that one person’s opinion that are usually out weighed by fans of Gardiner’s anyway, but I don’t recall moderators stopping those people going over the top with their unbalanced positive comments. Remember Gardiner’s sold a pole with bike seat clamps on for about £400! Gardiner’s talked about the cost of tooling which is very expensive, although obviously there is no required tooling for off the shelf bike seat clamp. My view is Gardiner’s used the people and there money from this forum to pay for his pole R&D without putting in his own money or at least the bulk of it. (Which I personally think is very clever)
Asking Gardiner’s or any manufacturer to comment on here is fine, but to expect everyone to accept what he says without question is clearly wrong, especially so of this particular forum and it members with regard to this issue considering the history of this pole.
Just to clarify these replacement sections I think are to expensive and there does seem to be an issue with the sections (expressed by many) wearing extremely quickly.
I think that is a very well thought out and balanced response...well done!
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Good post Ewan - agree totally. Have seen on here before where people have offered up an alternative view & others don't like it.
It's a forum, after all, to share your views good & bad. Some people don't take kindly to criticism (constructive) &, it seems, most suppliers that have come on here like the free publicity but don't always handle criticism very well from a customer care aspect. If the supplier doesn't like what's been said on an open forum then come on & put their side of the situation. If they have previously posted to help their business along & have chosen not to post anymore even when there are negative posts that is an issue only they can rectify.
You can't deny people posting their views though mods just because you don't like the persons view otherwise you won't have a forum at all just an appreciation society.
Just my view ::)
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Critisism is good, Slating a company or individual is not.
if people don't want to pay what Alex is asking then get rid of your pole and buy a different brand!
I really would like to see these guys that come on here (moaning that the prices are too high and they can do it cheaper) actually start up a business selling WFP's.
All mouth and no trousers come to mind.
If the moaning guys can do it cheaper, DO IT! don't come on here slagging individuals off!!!
Matt
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Hi mates,
As for me I like opinions from Ian_Giles, Ewan, 4Taz and MB Window Cleaning. And it could be sound strange, but I do agree with every of them.
Its the main idea of the forum - that we are all diffirent and could have different views what make great value of the forum. Even wrong views as well.
What I most like that you explain your point of view very clear. Well done, indeed. Thank you.
regards,
Vadim
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This topic is starting to fragment, and the Alex bashers are beginning to become more vociferous...
To come on hear and start slating companies or individuals without due cause, or to speculate on how they are running their business is quite possibly bordering on libel.
I suggest that you contact Gardiners direct and ask them for an explanation as to why these replacement sections are so expensive, else everything else written here is mere conjecture.
You can post their explanation on here.....except that others with absolutely no understanding of what is involved will offer up yet more ridiculous reasons why Gardiners are ripping them off.
If Alex has wiped his hands of the forum I don't blame him.
Ian
With all due respect Ian you’re wrong, people are just commenting on the price and quality of the products, which is perfectly normal behaviour for customers of any product.
The over the top personal comment from individuals are just that one person’s opinion that are usually out weighed by fans of Gardiner’s anyway, but I don’t recall moderators stopping those people going over the top with their unbalanced positive comments. Remember Gardiner’s sold a pole with bike seat clamps on for about £400! Gardiner’s talked about the cost of tooling which is very expensive, although obviously there is no required tooling for off the shelf bike seat clamp. My view is Gardiner’s used the people and there money from this forum to pay for his pole R&D without putting in his own money or at least the bulk of it. (Which I personally think is very clever)
Asking Gardiner’s or any manufacturer to comment on here is fine, but to expect everyone to accept what he says without question is clearly wrong, especially so of this particular forum and it members with regard to this issue considering the history of this pole.
Just to clarify these replacement sections I think are to expensive and there does seem to be an issue with the sections (expressed by many) wearing extremely quickly.
I think you'll find they are based on bike seat clamps but were indeed manufactured for that pole!
Might be a good idea that you "remember" correctly in the future! ;)
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This topic is starting to fragment, and the Alex bashers are beginning to become more vociferous...
To come on hear and start slating companies or individuals without due cause, or to speculate on how they are running their business is quite possibly bordering on libel.
I suggest that you contact Gardiners direct and ask them for an explanation as to why these replacement sections are so expensive, else everything else written here is mere conjecture.
You can post their explanation on here.....except that others with absolutely no understanding of what is involved will offer up yet more ridiculous reasons why Gardiners are ripping them off.
If Alex has wiped his hands of the forum I don't blame him.
Ian
Has this post been heavily moderated as I cannot see what you mean. It looks like you can post any opinion you like but it better not be negative about Gardiners. I have never seen a manufacturer so heavily 'looked after' by a supposedly unbiased forum. Its like Alex has his wingmen all over who pop up to defend him against quite reasonable observations.
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Critisism is good, Slating a company or individual is not.
if people don't want to pay what Alex is asking then get rid of your pole and buy a different brand!
I really would like to see these guys that come on here (moaning that the prices are too high and they can do it cheaper) actually start up a business selling WFP's.
All mouth and no trousers come to mind.
If the moaning guys can do it cheaper, DO IT! don't come on here slagging individuals off!!!
Matt
So according to you we should shut up and put up? Why am I not allowed my opinion on this matter?
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that does seem to be the case doesn't it? i think freedom of speech doesn't apply.
we seem to have 2 points here that are both relevant within this thread.
I'm questioning why pole parts have gone up over 50% in about a year?
Am i going to throw a 800 quid pole in the bin? am i f--p ;D
but when i bought the pole i didn't realize the running costs were gonna go up over 50% i think the words "over a barrel" apply
still a great pole to use but it could be made a lot better as by the sound of it so can the slx. I spent my money so i can voice my opinion 8) ;)
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"opinion on cost of replacement sections for sl2" or " shocked at cost of replacement sections for sl2" would have been reasonable titles for this post however " Gardiners rip off " or whatever it was originally (cant remember) is not a fair and reasonable post to make.
I think it is totally acceptable to express your opinion on the quality of a product or service but if you dont offer evidence and information to support your point of view it is likely to read as an attack on the company in question.
The OP was unhappy about the cost of replacment sections but had not bothered to get the details of costs or the reasons why, so the first page decended into an unfounded bithc about the rip off by a supplier.
my opinion for what its worth
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i don't think any of them titles are reasonable as the OP wanted to now about the SLX ;)
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"opinion on cost of replacement sections for sl2" or " shocked at cost of replacement sections for sl2" would have been reasonable titles for this post however " Gardiners rip off " or whatever it was originally (cant remember) is not a fair and reasonable post to make.
I think it is totally acceptable to express your opinion on the quality of a product or service but if you dont offer evidence and information to support your point of view it is likely to read as an attack on the company in question.
The OP was unhappy about the cost of replacment sections but had not bothered to get the details of costs or the reasons why, so the first page decended into an unfounded bithc about the rip off by a supplier.
my opinion for what its worth
I did ask Gardners and was told "the price is the price". They did find it very hard to justify the difference in pricing but I was not speaking to Alex, I am sure he could have spelled it out for me. The main thrust of the argument was that the top section is reinforced, I asked if the top section of the 18ft pole (nearly £100.00 cheaper for 3ft less carbon and comes with a superlight brush, pole hose, angle adapter, tail and base cap) was not reinforced but didn't get a clear answer.
I did feel the attitude had a very slight undertone of 'go somewhere else if you don't like it' but I could be wrong. Basically I believe alot of people have invested a good whack of cash in this pole and £105 to replace one section is alot cheaper than buying a whole new pole elsewhere. I belived Gardiners are all to aware of this and as an earlier poster mentioned, we are over a barrel. Buy this section at this inflated price or buy a whole new pole somewhere else.
I am now not surprised that Alex has abandoned the forum, I think the honeymoon period where he was treated like some minor deity is now over.
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"opinion on cost of replacement sections for sl2" or " shocked at cost of replacement sections for sl2" would have been reasonable titles for this post however " Gardiners rip off " or whatever it was originally (cant remember) is not a fair and reasonable post to make.
I think it is totally acceptable to express your opinion on the quality of a product or service but if you dont offer evidence and information to support your point of view it is likely to read as an attack on the company in question.
The OP was unhappy about the cost of replacment sections but had not bothered to get the details of costs or the reasons why, so the first page decended into an unfounded bithc about the rip off by a supplier.
my opinion for what its worth
I did ask Gardners and was told "the price is the price". They did find it very hard to justify the difference in pricing but I was not speaking to Alex, I am sure he could have spelled it out for me. The main thrust of the argument was that the top section is reinforced, I asked if the top section of the 18ft pole (nearly £100.00 cheaper for 3ft less carbon and comes with a superlight brush, pole hose, angle adapter, tail and base cap) was not reinforced but didn't get a clear answer.
I did feel the attitude had a very slight undertone of 'go somewhere else if you don't like it' but I could be wrong. Basically I believe alot of people have invested a good whack of cash in this pole and £105 to replace one section is alot cheaper than buying a whole new pole elsewhere. I belived Gardiners are all to aware of this and as an earlier poster mentioned, we are over a barrel. Buy this section at this inflated price or buy a whole new pole somewhere else.
I am now not surprised that Alex has abandoned the forum, I think the honeymoon period where he was treated like some minor deity is now over.[/font]
haven't all suppliers done this in the end.
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I have had limited dealings with Alex but found his response time and customer service second to none.
It does seem you are having to pay too much for your replacement pole sections.
Best to e-mail him direct and post his response to this issue. I e-mailed him directly with my problem and he mailed me back same day (Sunday) and problem was sorted very quickly.
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My hat goes off to Alex.
He has "played" this forum for a long time to his advantage and done it very well so far. His PR skills are second to none and he has managed to get a vast amount of good publicity for nothing. He always seemed to be one of the boys and on their side. Come on get real.. he wanted your money for his business and seemed to get plenty of it. Good luck to him I say. He even had the mods on his side on a many occasions. He isn't your mate, freind or buddy. He is a businessman. Full stop.
I actually admire his skills.
Dan
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This topic is starting to fragment, and the Alex bashers are beginning to become more vociferous...
To come on hear and start slating companies or individuals without due cause, or to speculate on how they are running their business is quite possibly bordering on libel.
I suggest that you contact Gardiners direct and ask them for an explanation as to why these replacement sections are so expensive, else everything else written here is mere conjecture.
You can post their explanation on here.....except that others with absolutely no understanding of what is involved will offer up yet more ridiculous reasons why Gardiners are ripping them off.
If Alex has wiped his hands of the forum I don't blame him.
Ian
With all due respect Ian you’re wrong, people are just commenting on the price and quality of the products, which is perfectly normal behaviour for customers of any product.
The over the top personal comment from individuals are just that one person’s opinion that are usually out weighed by fans of Gardiner’s anyway, but I don’t recall moderators stopping those people going over the top with their unbalanced positive comments. Remember Gardiner’s sold a pole with bike seat clamps on for about £400! Gardiner’s talked about the cost of tooling which is very expensive, although obviously there is no required tooling for off the shelf bike seat clamp. My view is Gardiner’s used the people and there money from this forum to pay for his pole R&D without putting in his own money or at least the bulk of it. (Which I personally think is very clever)
Asking Gardiner’s or any manufacturer to comment on here is fine, but to expect everyone to accept what he says without question is clearly wrong, especially so of this particular forum and it members with regard to this issue considering the history of this pole.
Just to clarify these replacement sections I think are to expensive and there does seem to be an issue with the sections (expressed by many) wearing extremely quickly.
I think you'll find they are based on bike seat clamps but were indeed manufactured for that pole!
Might be a good idea that you "remember" correctly in the future! ;)
Oh my mistake, but you can get them from Halfords there on some of the bikes they sell! ::)
Yeah, he probably nipped down & bought 3000 units in 6 different sizes! ::)
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To be honest i think Alex is a decent bloke. he sent me a couple of bits when i needed it for the sl2 FOC.
If he has played the forum then he needs to teach me his sales techniques as its been a master class ;D
I would like to think otherwise and hopefully he drops the sl2 sections back down to the 60 quid mark ;D what are they chances eh?? ;D
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I don’t know if this has gone over your head, but the point is the clamps already exist, so no tooling expense.
They had to be resized, which requires tooling. Did that go over your head?
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My hat goes off to Alex.
He has "played" this forum for a long time to his advantage and done it very well so far. His PR skills are second to none and he has managed to get a vast amount of good publicity for nothing. He always seemed to be one of the boys and on their side. Come on get real.. he wanted your money for his business and seemed to get plenty of it. Good luck to him I say. He even had the mods on his side on a many occasions. He isn't your mate, freind or buddy. He is a businessman. Full stop.
I actually admire his skills.
Dan
have to agree on both counts, but would also add even if people think he has the market, over a barrel etc etc, you still get a first class service from them, many companys in the past who had at 1 point had his kind of corning of the market got to cocky and greedy and started treating there customers badly at the moment gardiners still seem to have a top notch customer service even if they don't come on here anymore but only time will tell...
paul
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Saddle clamps would crush a carbon pole.The issue was that they were too flimsy and the grade of plastic not strong enough.You are not helping the debate with constant misinformation ewan.
You think this forum is the jeremy kyle show where you can demand a dna or a lie detector test.No one is on trial here.
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cant fault alex for anything. he supplied something the market wanted and also his customer service is superb. If you dont like his products it's easy enough to go elsewhere. People buy from him as they feel he offers good products and excellent service. Sometimes it's worth paying that little bit extra for service like they offer
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My hat goes off to Alex.
He has "played" this forum for a long time to his advantage and done it very well so far. His PR skills are second to none and he has managed to get a vast amount of good publicity for nothing. He always seemed to be one of the boys and on their side. Come on get real.. he wanted your money for his business and seemed to get plenty of it. Good luck to him I say. He even had the mods on his side on a many occasions. He isn't your mate, freind or buddy. He is a businessman. Full stop.
I actually admire his skills.
Dan
i have allways said this
Alex was on here to sell his gear, people thought he was just being a helpfull bloke, yes he was helpfull BUT he was also here to sell his gear
I like Alex, so the above isnt a criticism, he customer service IS / WAS the best, other companies could learn a trick from him( he is the disney of the WC'er world, disney sets the benchmark for ALL CUSTOMER SERVICE ), if you e.mailed him with a issue, he would solve it ( sometimes even if he was out of pocket , which in my case he was )
Alex never got into the petty squabbles that all the other suppliers did
are his poles a rip-off ? ? ? no-one is holding a gun to your head to buy the pole, you have other options, the harris pole, a fishing pole, oh hang on, then you get the people who say " they are not proper poles, they will not work " yet they do work and they work well ::) then you can buy the others "proper" poles, but they dont last either
the big issue i will have is the wear and tear, if you buy a pole for 400 quid, you want it to last a few years
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Critisism is good, Slating a company or individual is not.
if people don't want to pay what Alex is asking then get rid of your pole and buy a different brand!
I really would like to see these guys that come on here (moaning that the prices are too high and they can do it cheaper) actually start up a business selling WFP's.
All mouth and no trousers come to mind.
If the moaning guys can do it cheaper, DO IT! don't come on here slagging individuals off!!!
Matt
So according to you we should shut up and put up? Why am I not allowed my opinion on this matter?
What I am saying is if you think a product is too expensive then buy from a different manufacturer. don't slate them!
Matt
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I think there is a huge difference between expensive and ripping people off.
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I agree with Matt, Alex wasn't holding a gun to your head to buy it.
If your unhappy with it, SELL IT! and buy another pole.
I have the SLX-25 and I have not had a problem with the clamps or wear and tear.
Matt
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I don’t know if this has gone over your head, but the point is the clamps already exist, so no tooling expense.
They had to be resized, which requires tooling. Did that go over your head?
Nothing gone over my head, I agree with Alex Gardiner, he said they are bike seat clamps when he first showed pictures of the sl-x, after someone asked. :P
i wonder who first had the idea of the bike clamps when discussing a quick and easy way for clamps ? ? ? ?
Oh i know, it was me on the DIY forum many years ago
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bike seat clamps is a quick and easy to understand explanation of what they are. It is not what they actually are.The slx clamps will fail before they crush the pole, an aluminium bike seat clamp would not.Because of the close tolerances the idea is that the grip from the clamp is light, just enough in fact to stop the pole sliding.
If halfords are putting these clamps on bikes they would soon be in court because they are not robust enough for the purpose.
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Critisism is good, Slating a company or individual is not.
if people don't want to pay what Alex is asking then get rid of your pole and buy a different brand!
I really would like to see these guys that come on here (moaning that the prices are too high and they can do it cheaper) actually start up a business selling WFP's.
All mouth and no trousers come to mind.
If the moaning guys can do it cheaper, DO IT! don't come on here slagging individuals off!!!
Matt
So according to you we should shut up and put up? Why am I not allowed my opinion on this matter?
What I am saying is if you think a product is too expensive then buy from a different manufacturer. don't slate them!
Matt
Why, I happen to think the replacement sections are over priced? It is a window cleaning pole bought by window cleaners which I am one of. This is a forum for window cleaners, many of whom have purchased or are thinking of purchasing one. If I believe the replacement sections are over priced why should I not come on here and say so. In the first couple of replys people though it must be a mistake. It was no mistake.
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I am also dissapointed to hear the price of the spare sections for the slx r so expensive. However i have invested in the superlite modular for all high work and the 18ft slx for everything else. I also had problems with clamps which as many have said was dealt with impeccably. The pole does wear, but if i manage to get 1 yr for 200 quid for a light rigid pole then that is much better than 100 quid for a unger gf pole that starts spinning after 4 months or so in my opion.
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Just to set teh record straight, I think Alex is far and away the best supplier, with the best customer service and products. I love the SLX, I think it is a great pole and will, albeit grudgingly, pay whay I need to for the sections. My point is a very narrow one, not intended to reflect on any other part of the Gardiner road show.
However, my one gripe is that I think Alex knows we will stump up rather than buy another whole new pole, a point MB seems to be missing again and again, and I think this is a pity. I know Alex runs a business and needs to pay for the yacht but it does destroy some of the goodwill I have towards Gardiners when I feel he has taken advantage of the situation.
I now know is naive and I will adjust my expectations accordingly as I will the advise I give to others. I know of at least two SLX poles sold on my advise to friends without reservation about Gardiners. Now though I would still recomment the pole but point out that they will have your eyes out if you need a spare section.
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I agree with Matt, Alex wasn't holding a gun to your head to buy it.
If your unhappy with it, SELL IT! and buy another pole.
I have the SLX-25 and I have not had a problem with the clamps or wear and tear.
Matt
That's great for you Matt, wait until you have to fork out £300.00 for 3 sections when an 18ft is only £200.00.
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Has anyone tried the first section of a harris pole on the slx ? that would be £15 if it fitted
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If and when it comes to it I would pay for it, the 18ft pole sections are shorter, but then if that was true (£300 for top 3 sections) I would buy another SLX-25 then I would have some spare sections.
I have spent alot more than that last year, and for how much we take from window cleaning £300 for equipment really isnt something to worry about.
People on here will buy a 4040 RO and then moan about the price of the replacement membrane. we are all in business, running costs come with the territory of having a business.
It would cost more to replace the wing mirror on a ferrari than of a ford mondeo wouldn't it, we buy the SLX for our personal comfort, otherwise we would all be using extels, so the SLX really is a
Matt
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The selling price of an item in spares is always going to be more than the selling price of the complete item.
A few years ago a car would cost about 27 times more in parts than the price in the showroom.
The price of a Bosch drilling machine would probably cost you 3 to 5 times as much in parts when compared to the price being sold in retail outlets.
You need to consider the whole sales and service picture of their business and their stock holding to maintain that service level. The cost to hold spares to service your product is an investment that is costly as it ties up capital. In the power tool service industry overseas we found that 20% of our stock holding (value wise) accounted for 80% of our sales. But we still had to keep the other slow moving items to provide an acceptable service level. It would be very interesting to know what % stock Gardiners have got that is slow moving, or that hasn't sold at all.
I bet Alex has priced his SLX poles very competitively when compared to other poles of a similar spec on the market. I have never owned a Facelift CF pole but the SLX was a lot cheaper than the equivalant Facelift and I am very happy with my choice. My son also likes his SLX. Was it worth 5 Unger Teleplus poles it replaced - an outstanding Yes.
You bought the 'printer' for virtually nothing, but they will make a profit when they sell you the replacement 'ink'.
If Gardiners didn't make a profit, they won't be here to serve you.
Spruce
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complaining about prices yet will happily charge 12-15 quid for 30 mins work clenaing a house. Ye couldn't mark some peoples necks with a blowtorch on here ff's
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The selling price of an item in spares is always going to be more than the selling price of the complete item.
A few years ago a car would cost about 27 times more in parts than the price in the showroom.
The price of a Bosch drilling machine would probably cost you 3 to 5 times as much in parts when compared to the price being sold in retail outlets.
You need to consider the whole sales and service picture of their business and their stock holding to maintain that service level. The cost to hold spares to service your product is an investment that is costly as it ties up capital. In the power tool service industry overseas we found that 20% of our stock holding (value wise) accounted for 80% of our sales. But we still had to keep the other slow moving items to provide an acceptable service level. It would be very interesting to know what % stock Gardiners have got that is slow moving, or that hasn't sold at all.
I bet Alex has priced his SLX poles very competitively when compared to other poles of a similar spec on the market. I have never owned a Facelift CF pole but the SLX was a lot cheaper than the equivalant Facelift and I am very happy with my choice. My son also likes his SLX. Was it worth 5 Unger Teleplus poles it replaced - an outstanding Yes.
You bought the 'printer' for virtually nothing, but they will make a profit when they sell you the replacement 'ink'.
If Gardiners didn't make a profit, they won't be here to serve you.
Spruce
Wel done, mate. I wanted to post this kind of explanation, but it was not good idea with my not perfect English. Thank you Spruce very much.
Best regards,
Vadim
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not withstanding the spares mark up being an accountancy fact, david 3511 is now making a very good case.
I still think there probably is a mistake- i may be wrong.
The only way you'll know for sure is to email Alex/Kirsty.
One strong point you have is that you are not buying one section- where possibly spruce's economics apply- but three sections.
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it's called business. look at the price of razor blades for yer razor
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The selling price of an item in spares is always going to be more than the selling price of the complete item.
A few years ago a car would cost about 27 times more in parts than the price in the showroom.
The price of a Bosch drilling machine would probably cost you 3 to 5 times as much in parts when compared to the price being sold in retail outlets.
You need to consider the whole sales and service picture of their business and their stock holding to maintain that service level. The cost to hold spares to service your product is an investment that is costly as it ties up capital. In the power tool service industry overseas we found that 20% of our stock holding (value wise) accounted for 80% of our sales. But we still had to keep the other slow moving items to provide an acceptable service level. It would be very interesting to know what % stock Gardiners have got that is slow moving, or that hasn't sold at all.
I bet Alex has priced his SLX poles very competitively when compared to other poles of a similar spec on the market. I have never owned a Facelift CF pole but the SLX was a lot cheaper than the equivalant Facelift and I am very happy with my choice. My son also likes his SLX. Was it worth 5 Unger Teleplus poles it replaced - an outstanding Yes.
You bought the 'printer' for virtually nothing, but they will make a profit when they sell you the replacement 'ink'.
If Gardiners didn't make a profit, they won't be here to serve you.
Spruce
Well said mate, very true. that'll be Ewan up all night trying to counter that one! ;D
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So davids3511, what did Alex say?
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I bought an sl2 extension before xmas and it cost £70. :o
I wanted a slx but held back until the issues were sorted. From the start it was very much a work in progress, due to complaints and fixes that had to be done.
I'm shocked at the price and davids point about 3 sections costing £300 is a good one.
It has sorta shot down my argument now. I was going to say that with all the problems and the time spent sorting out the fixes, i would have believed that the slx wasn't a good earner at all. And alex has increased the price the claw some cash back.
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I very much doubt that Alex will come on here to give a breakdown on costs and reasons for the price of the replacement sections, but if David were to ring him to express his shock at the cost of the said replacement sections then he may well get a general explanation.
How many on here have cleaned a house only for the customer to express shock at how fast they were done, and maybe to assume you must be earning £xxx per hour!
When that has happened to me I generally make some glib little comment and laugh it off, but to turn around and give them a full explanation about why charge what I do (overheads, downtime, no holiday pay, days off due to bad weather, time lost travelling between accounts and so on and so on) would only have them thinking I was spinning them a cock and bull story.
They will by and large have no real understanding.
Ditto us with regards to the complexities of running a business such as the manufacture and supply of the equipment we need to run our own businesses.
I too would be very interested to know why the cost of replacing pole sections are so shockingly expensive.
In fact simply having read this thread stops me in my tracks with regards to purchasing an SLX.
I've been mulling over whether to go for an SLX or just get another SL2, I love the SL2, when things go wrong, ie, pole section snaps or gets wedged, I can butcher it about and repair it myself, and so far my current one has lasted around two years and still going strong.
It's my telescopic cheapo that needs replacing, and as there are times when the telescopic pole is more advantageous than the modular I was thinking of biting the bullet and going for the SLX....
I very much doubt that Gardiners are ripping anyone off, but whether they are or not, for me the cost of those replacement sections is a worry, as it seems that wear and tear does mean they will need replacing at some point.
Ian
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Ian, I think it maybe a one off price, the resean behind my thinking is, Alex has recently struggled stocking the SLX-22 and SLX-25 and that to sell the top 3 sections to a customer would mean splitting a complete pole (which he is struggling to have in stock).
Matt
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Maybe the price of the whole unit is too cheap, maybe everyone that bought one as a genuine bargain.
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Maybe this topic, given the poularity of it, and going by the amount of people reading it.....may just have put some people off getting the slx.... if the parts are so costly,
in the long run, it may be more cost affective to buy a couple of X-tels.,
I have never tried an slx pole, and this thread is certainly not encouraging me to ever buy one.
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It was not long ago that you would be talking £1000 plus for a carbon pole.
Lets face it many claim to earn vast amounts of monney a day, so even if you had to replace the pole every year its still less than a days pay.
Roy
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It was not long ago that you would be talking £1000 plus for a carbon pole.
Lets face it many claim to earn vast amounts of monney a day, so even if you had to replace the pole every year its still less than a days pay.
Roy
Well said ;D
The SLX is a Luxury!
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I have seen taxis that are BMW's and Mercedes (not very practical). they are working tools but they are also a luxury.
;D ;D
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It works for me & for the huge benefit that I enjoy from it I'd buy one every 6 months if need be. I use the slx above any other pole, it earns me good money easier & faster. ;)
If you want a pole that's gonna last you 3 years thay are available but the trade-off is not for me.
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If you use a pole every working day for a year you will prob have to replace it. Why would this one be any different. I thought the whole point of the better poles was that it made work easier and faster to do.
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If you use a pole every working day for a year you will prob have to replace it. Why would this one be any different. I thought the whole point of the better poles was that it made work easier and faster to do.
I think two years on a "used every day" basis is ok for an SLX; but the carbon content in the thinnest three or four sections should not justify commanding such a high price IMHO.
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If you use a pole every working day for a year you will prob have to replace it. Why would this one be any different. I thought the whole point of the better poles was that it made work easier and faster to do.
Not quite, my £249 F16 is 5 years old.
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I went through £100 fibreglass poles every 3 months when i first started. If an 18ft SLX lasts me 6 months then i'm happy,as stated before,less than a days money for some of the big players!I agree what MB and Sunshine have said too.The pole is priced (imo) cheaply anyway and does make my day a whole lot easier. As soon as i buy one i order another from the next batch!
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I went through £100 fibreglass poles every 3 months when i first started. If an 18ft SLX lasts me 6 months then i'm happy,as stated before,less than a days money for some of the big players!I agree what MB and Sunshine have said too.The pole is priced (imo) cheaply anyway and does make my day a whole lot easier. As soon as i buy one i order another from the next batch!
its a shame I do not think these poles are made for people that employ, I have been carefull with my pole costing me good knows how much trying to keep the ware down, yet under a year and need new sections, will I pay £300 for sections, I think I will try something else and see what happens to them poles.
Is a shame as the pole is lite, makes your hands black not good and ware if you dont be carful is mental, could be wrecked in a month I recon. I think the replacement market was not looked at to much hence the over inflated price for three sections and stocking of the pole to buy new is totally on reasonable (god knows why, maybe it is money to stock who knows). Have to say this pole has changed alot by our comments and alex using it, hopefully he will listen again and lower the price on fixing a pole that does not last a year with normal ware ::) how ever cheap some think this pole is nothing is cheap if it needs fixing, wiping, baby sitting, bathing ect all the time.
I would not mind once a year paying a couple of hundred quid to replace sections and to replace all my poles with slx but as others have said this is looking like not going to happen.
Maybe someone should call Alex and find out why and what is going to happen then post the reply.
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Ian, at what point do you consider your pole to be worn out?
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I do agree that £300 for new sections is steep,but £200 for a pole to be used every day for at least six months is a no brainer isn't it? My £500 30ft Facelift only lasted me three months, however, they replaced it for me foc with the new revised model. Some aspect of goodwill is always appreciated.
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Ian, at what point do you consider your pole to be worn out?
when it annoys the hell out of me, it spins round after tightening, you every day have to mess about with it this is when a pole that was cheap starts to cost money and becomes not cheap.
I would be very warey of the secondhand market of an slx, because by the sounds of it, you can use uit for 6 months is starts playing up, maybe 5 months sell it and buy a new one.
new cost say 500 in cluding vat sell £300 6 months old at best 12 months, replacement sections £300 for 3 maths not good there if you understand what I am saying.
I could save £100 and get a new pole, someone is making losing and gaining
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Thing is, I can't see how it can spin? The clamps can be tightened loads. Have you got the latest plastic clamps?
The first SLX had the bike clamps - when the carbon wore out under the clamp you simply removed the clamp, chopped an inch off and rebonded the clamp again.
The second version has the funny half sawn through the shaft arrangement - if you have one of these ask for the upgrade to the plastic clamps. These are easy to fit and eliminate the carbon to carbon clamping system.
The poles will always wear but are unlikely to spin like the old x-tel type poles.
With a bit of workshop maintenance I'm sure these poles can last a lot longer than people think.
Still far too expensive for the spare sections though.
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Thing is, I can't see how it can spin? The clamps can be tightened loads. Have you got the latest plastic clamps?
The first SLX had the bike clamps - when the carbon wore out under the clamp you simply removed the clamp, chopped an inch off and rebonded the clamp again.
The second version has the funny half sawn through the shaft arrangement - if you have one of these ask for the upgrade to the plastic clamps. These are easy to fit and eliminate the carbon to carbon clamping system.
The poles will always wear but are unlikely to spin like the old x-tel type poles.
With a bit of workshop maintenance I'm sure these poles can last a lot longer than people think.
Still far too expensive for the spare sections though.
the prblem is if I tigthen the clamp to stop it spinning, I have to use my body weight to get the pole to extend, making having a light weight pole a very bad idea as I weigh more than a pole does, it strains your shoulders and upper back. so when it does this I would say pole is near on time to replace, either with sections or new pole, and as most on the time it is three section that are out this is where the problem is, shame as I do not want to have to use 2 pole to do one job.
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Take the sticky markers off. The first sections to wear out completely will be the top section then the second and so on. The third won't wear out before those.
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Thing is, I can't see how it can spin? The clamps can be tightened loads. Have you got the latest plastic clamps?
The first SLX had the bike clamps - when the carbon wore out under the clamp you simply removed the clamp, chopped an inch off and rebonded the clamp again.
The second version has the funny half sawn through the shaft arrangement - if you have one of these ask for the upgrade to the plastic clamps. These are easy to fit and eliminate the carbon to carbon clamping system.
The poles will always wear but are unlikely to spin like the old x-tel type poles.
With a bit of workshop maintenance I'm sure these poles can last a lot longer than people think.
Still far too expensive for the spare sections though.
Theres only so far you can tighten them, im at the point i have to use pliers to tighten it.
Ionics glyder soon i think, i bet there rubbing there hands reading this as im sure there reading it, as they always seem to jump on people when the y mention Reach and Wash ;)
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Pliers ???
Which clamps have you got?
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It is possible of course that the clamp itself has worn too - cheap as chips - honest!
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The newest ones
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http://www.gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/acatalog/SL-X_Clamp_Bodies.html
Why don't you guys speak to Gardiners and ask for advice?
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Ionics glyder soon i think, i bet there rubbing there hands reading this as im sure there reading it, as they always seem to jump on people when the y mention Reach and Wash ;)
you will be able to use the logo them, i would start to look at yacht mooring in the south of france if i were you :P
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So davids3511, what did Alex say?
Alex didn't speak to me, one of his staff relayed his message. Basically to quote 'the price is the price', the top section is reinforced so more expensive. They didn't explain why the full 18foot pole is so much cheaper. When I asked if the top section of that is not reinforced I did not get a clear answer. I think the basics of their argument was that it is expensive to service and supply the section sales.
What they said is fair enough and I can't really remember it word for word now but they did struggle to justify it to me. I think if Alex had spoken to me himself things would have been much clearer. However, it's not a case of him refusing to speak to me, I didn't ask directly for him.
He did come to an agreement with me over price as I was buying 3 sections so fair play to him for that. I don't want to go into that on a public forum as I don't think that would be fair to Alex but also feel it would be unfair to him not to mention it in passing.
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My SL-X will be 2 years old in March, i have one from the original batch. I have used it at least 5 days of the week, apart from a few weeks holiday. I use it for near on all of my work and it has never let me down. It went back to Gardiners for a service after about 10 months, they fitted a new top clamp and sent it back. As for wear, it still looks good to me. I give the clamps (bicycle ones)a tweek every morning and they last all day. The Gardiners logo is still visible on the base section, and the red markers are also still visible. I changed the pole hose about 2 weeks ago, just because i had loads in the unit, and the end cap along with the tennis balls. Now i think my pole has been very very good value for money.
My guys have a new 30ft SL-X each, and we have changed the clamps twice, then upgraded them to the newer stronger ones. We have stripped the poles down twice as the clamp glue has come away and they have had to be re-glued. The top two sections of the poles do seem to be wearing quite quickly, and the sticky marker tape has come away. All three poles get flushed through at the end of the week, and the pole hose is always wiped when being put back in the van. Imo, the original poles were/are a better pole, the clamps are much better (i know many moaned about them) they are stronger than the plastic ones. I know we have discussed this here before but i think the carbon quality is a lot better on the original (i may be wrong, i am only a window cleaner), in fact my original and the latest version feel like two very different poles. If mine packed up tomorrow, i think i would probably buy another, just because of the great service that we have always had at Gardiners, but then again, i may just give the Glyder a try?
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So davids3511, what did Alex say?
Alex didn't speak to me, one of his staff relayed his message. Basically to quote 'the price is the price', the top section is reinforced so more expensive. They didn't explain why the full 18foot pole is so much cheaper. When I asked if the top section of that is not reinforced I did not get a clear answer. I think the basics of their argument was that it is expensive to service and supply the section sales.
What they said is fair enough and I can't really remember it word for word now but they did struggle to justify it to me. I think if Alex had spoken to me himself things would have been much clearer. However, it's not a case of him refusing to speak to me, I didn't ask directly for him.
He did come to an agreement with me over price as I was buying 3 sections so fair play to him for that. I don't want to go into that on a public forum as I don't think that would be fair to Alex but also feel it would be unfair to him not to mention it in passing.
LOL reinforced, with what gold, tell me what with beside carbon fibre, because I can’t think of any other material.
Didn’t take long to drop the price, how much 10% 30% what?
I think you just have a gripe with gardiners Ewan. I know you like to act clever but what exactly do you know about the construction, manufacture of carbon fibre pole sections? or the structure, running & organization of a real business?
A bit rich from someone who charged £35 to scrape 1 egg from 1 window!!! LOL ;D ;D ::) ::)
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David 3511
How much did Alex charge?
This topic started with the title gardiners rip off but was changed.We have had six pages of vilification of Alex. Now you say it wouldn't be fair to post the price on a public forum?
Don't worry about Alex, you certainly didn't earlier in the thread.He doesn't come on here anymore and although this forum helped greatly in the gestation, launch, and the ultimate customer base, he doesn't care too much about us either.
You started this thread.You had enough to say at the start. Now finish it like a man and hang the consequences.
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Crikey Slumps, this is like a bun fight. Have you ever chatted to Alex? To say he doesn't care about us is a bit strong. When I started he was a real help, even sending me a pole to get by. Seem to remember Squeaky having some help with a Superlight pole. Think Alex made one up out of various second hand tubes to keep him going whilst he had a shoulder injury and no money. I've spoken by phone and email with Alex and a more genuine person would be hard to find.
Yes, their products can seem expensive but have a look at the competition.
Really don't see why everyone wants to pitch in and attack Gardiners, is it because they are doing alright?
We don't know, they could even be struggling financially. We'd be buggered then if they went down the pan.
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Crikey Slumps, this is like a bun fight. Have you ever chatted to Alex? To say he doesn't care about us is a bit strong. When I started he was a real help, even sending me a pole to get by. Seem to remember Squeaky having some help with a Superlight pole. Think Alex made one up out of various second hand tubes to keep him going whilst he had a shoulder injury and no money. I've spoken by phone and email with Alex and a more genuine person would be hard to find.
Yes, their products can seem expensive but have a look at the competition.
Really don't see why everyone wants to pitch in and attack Gardiners, is it because they are doing alright?
We don't know, they could even be struggling financially. We'd be buggered then if they went down the pan.
ftp this is not an attack on Alex as a person, it is the fact you can buy an 18ft slx with new brush and hose and goose neck )plastic) for less than you can get three replacement sections (some of of bought the highest price pole and it seems that some of us are peed off that we are held over a barrel becauswe price seems for good reason a rip off, thaTS NOT SLATING ALEX THAT BEING HONEST.
HE HAS TO GET THESE PARTS ANYWAY IN THE PARTS PROCESS AS EACH WILL HAVE A DIFFERENT TOOL
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I think if you actually get to Alex he is a great guy and will help. He sent me a free set of the new clamps when my old ones broke with no problems and I am sure he could have explained the pricing to me if I had got to him. Instead I spoke to his staff who will have to stick to company policy and will not have the freedom to make decisions on the fly.
He has charged me a price very similar to Malc at £299 inc delivery.
I don't believe I vilified Alex, I was very unhappy with the pricing structure and to be honest I still am. At £299 it is still very expensive but the pole is excellent and I will pay the £299 to keep using it. Alex has offered a discount which at the end of the day he didn't have to and I appreciate that.
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This post insn't the first where I have heard the mk1 pole is better. Didn't Alex move the production of the pole to the UK for the mk2? I seem to remember some comment about the SLX logo not being printed on the mk2 pole as there wasn't a machine in the uk to do it. Does this maybe explain the possible difference in quality?
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David 3511
How much did Alex charge?
This topic started with the title gardiners rip off but was changed.We have had six pages of vilification of Alex. Now you say it wouldn't be fair to post the price on a public forum?
Don't worry about Alex, you certainly didn't earlier in the thread.He doesn't come on here anymore and although this forum helped greatly in the gestation, launch, and the ultimate customer base, he doesn't care too much about us either.
You started this thread.You had enough to say at the start. Now finish it like a man and hang the consequences.
Oi you whinging old woman, after numerous requests to see some dumb logo you've spouted about (like all your other stuff you like to bore us with) why dont you post a picture of it instead of bemoaning one of the best posters this forum has had who undoubtedly has been a huge contributing factor in benefitting your business.
So in true Slumpy words 'you started the thread on your logo, now finish it like a man and hang the conseuences!'
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This post insn't the first where I have heard the mk1 pole is better. Didn't Alex move the production of the pole to the UK for the mk2? I seem to remember some comment about the SLX logo not being printed on the mk2 pole as there wasn't a machine in the uk to do it. Does this maybe explain the possible difference in quality?
yes, that was rupert the bear, he used to stare at his pole and marvel at the kaleidescope or colours that would come off it in the sun
what a star
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Good answer. I was just curious ;D
As cruel and antagonistic as this forum can sometimes be to show us two fingers is not good PR. But that's just what i think.
As regards the logo i've put it up twice- and it's nothing special anyway.
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Well youve taken it down then, its not on your logo thread.
Come on be a man, practise what you preach! ;)
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But what if David3511 phones me up and calls me a pratt and say's what do i mean be a man?
I have to keep deleting my account as it is.
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I said you were a fraud Slumpy on your logo thread, there's no need to prove it ;)
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Technically the old Emporium was the lightest, not sure about the new Cleantech/Emporium one though.
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But what if David3511 phones me up and calls me a pratt and say's what do i mean be a man?
I have to keep deleting my account as it is.
I wouldn't dare say that to one of the pillars of cleanitup ;D
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But what if David3511 phones me up and calls me a pratt and say's what do i mean be a man?
I have to keep deleting my account as it is.
I wouldn't dare say that to one of the pillocks of cleanitup ;D
i have edited it for you
;D ;D ;D
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Tell you what I have noticed, the 18ft and 22ft SLX is no longer on Gardiners site. I wonder why? The 30 ft is still there showing as not in stock just like the 18ft and 22ft were until very recently.
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Maybe they are updating the range. They have the 40' S-Max on offer at the moment so maybe that one is a slow seller?
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Tell you what I have noticed, the 18ft and 22ft SLX is no longer on Gardiners site. I wonder why? The 30 ft is still there showing as not in stock just like the 18ft and 22ft were until very recently.
i just got the 30ftslx, when i asked about the 22ft they told me they stopped
making them as they werent very popular ??? ??? ???
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Have to say I really can't see the point in an eighteen foot carbon pole. Carbon really comes into it's own on the longer lengths.
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Have to say I really can't see the point in an eighteen foot carbon pole. Carbon really comes into it's own on the longer lengths.
i agree, so glad i didnt go 4 the shorter 1's. mind u it only just goes in the bk of my van ::)
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Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.
Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.
Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.
And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.
Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are ;D
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Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.
Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.
Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.
And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.
Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are ;D
surely the answer is to have the ETD and take a deposit
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Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.
Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.
Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.
And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.
Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are ;D
surely the answer is to have the ETD and take a deposit
I would be asking for money up front, cuts down on people wasting there time, also they could sell spares cheaper ;D
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Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.
Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.
Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.
And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.
Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are ;D
surely the answer is to have the ETD and take a deposit
I would be asking for money up front, cuts down on people wasting there time, also they could sell spares cheaper ;D
It doesn't work that way, sadly. A policy like that usually chases customers away.
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I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know the facts or fiction. Bad P R can breed from situation and lead to rumour.
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yeah holding stock costs companie sload so cash and if only buying in small amounts of stock then the price they pay will most likely be higher. What ye need is basically a JIT system (just in time). This works well in factories and stuff when ordering chemicals. We only held what we needed and sometime slittle more but if you wanted to hold more most of the time ye were told no as it's costing the comaony money to hold stock. Money could be used elsewhere.
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I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know the facts or fiction. Bad P R can breed from situation and lead to rumour.
they dont really need to justify their prices to anyone. Would you go to B&Q and demand to know why drill bits are so expensive?
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I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know the facts or fiction. Bad P R can breed from situation and lead to rumour.
they dont really need to justify their prices to anyone. Would you go to B&Q and demand to know why drill bits are so expensive?
No, they don't need to justify anything but they are not on the scale of B&Q either. With B&Q if you don't but someone else in one of their 100's of stores will. A bit of bad press on a forum would have no impact whatsoever. Gardiners on the other hand is not so huge that they cannot see an impact.
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I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know the facts or fiction. Bad P R can breed from situation and lead to rumour.
they dont really need to justify their prices to anyone. Would you go to B&Q and demand to know why drill bits are so expensive?
No, they don't need to justify anything but they are not on the scale of B&Q either. With B&Q if you don't but someone else in one of their 100's of stores will. A bit of bad press on a forum would have no impact whatsoever. Gardiners on the other hand is not so huge that they cannot see an impact.
Gardiners do not need to sell to you though, as if you dont buy it, Dave ( FTP ) will, so no loss
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I have more stock than Gardiners now and will be selling spare sections shortly. ;)
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I have read all of the posts on this thread, and will reserve judgement until the defendant has had a chance to speak.
Has he been summoned to this thread? Or maybe he is exercising his right to remain silent.
There are a couple of things worthy of consideration. I bought the SL2 55ft, it was delivered complete in one box, if however it had been delivered in 10 separate packages, how much would that of added to the cost?
I believe that Alex genuinely tries to give us what we consider to be the best tools for the job, he even evaluated the Stanley paint pad swivel conversion that I made.
The problem is that most of us are not in a position to judge what is the best tool.
OK we know what we want, a pole and brush that weighs nothing.
The practicality from an engineering aspect is daunting.
I had a number three section of the SL2 snap while I was lifting five sections of it, the pole wasn't even on the ground, it was resting on a hedge. I was positive that the pole had not sustained any previous damage.
I examined the broken section in my workshop, I am a skilled tool room machinist right up to inspection level.
I was surprised to find that at the point of breakage the wall thickness of the tube varied between 0.4 and 0.5 of a mm. I contacted Alex and emailed him photos showing the readings on the digital calipers, I also sent him the two pieces for his own inspection. Alex replaced the no 3 section free of charge. Alex said that these readings were within manufacturers tolerance.
Now from an engineering aspect 20% tolerance is from my own experience unheard of, so maybe there are manufacturing issues.
In my opinion telescopic carbon poles with this wall thickness is impractical, you have sections sliding up and down inside each other causing friction and wear, I'm no expert on the abrasive resistance of carbon fibre, but the fact that guys have complained of having black hands using these poles is worrying.
The other manufacturers have gone for a higher wall thickness, and with it increased weight, with carbon fibre being so expensive why would they do this?
We have demanded Lightness, and Alex has given it with the SLX, but is at a price where longevity is concerned?
I think that if we want a pole to last, and to be really light, then the modular route is the only practical solution, on a modular pole you can beef up the ferrules, and if we were prepared to have poles that would not stack inside each other, we could even have lightweight metallic ferrules that would last for ages.
I believe Alex to be a genuine man that really is trying to break ground in WFP technology, not easy for the little guy, and lets not forget he is still cleaning windows.
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What a brilliant post dai, it sounds like you know your engineering.
The ' defendant' has moved on.
Leaving aside the engineering dai using an SLX is worth at least £2 a day to me if not more.It is probably 'worth' £5 a day to me. I used to use a 17' xtel and a 34' hybrid.Very often i would use step ladders with 17' either to get an angle, or gain height. So a 22' SLX used as an all day pole avoids me having to use steps and many other issues .This is why I say the pole is worth £5 a day to me.
Of course i would like it to last longer, but purely on a cost benefit basis 6 months is okay for me.
This topic has shocked a few of us, because i always thought the tool was billed as designed by a window cleaner for window cleaners. It does sound like david3511 has been properly turned over and topped up.
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Slumpy, if you look on their website Gardiners only seem to be selling the 30ft slx now so you will have to upgrade when your 22ft wears out.
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0.5 sounds to thin Dai, does depend on pole diameter size though, what is the size of the diameter?
I didn't measure the outside diameter Ewan, I was more concerned about how wear would affect very thin walls.
If your down to 0.40mm in places how much wear can it take?
I am referring to the SL2, This pole being modular will not be subject to the same wear as a telescopic with clamps. I haven't measured the wall thickness on the SLX, it may be thicker.
As you can see on the picture the walls are much thicker in some places than others,
one measurement here is 0.5mm different to the other, again I am no expert on the laws of physics, but I have to ask myself if such lack of uniformity could cause a weak spot.
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very strong in compression.Weak laterally.
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Anyone use silicone spray or even WD40 on the sections to reduce wear?
I know guys who use CF fishing poles for 15 years, 2 times a week. They don't wear quickly.
Also Fishing poles are used horizontally and not vertically like we use them.
I am pretty certain that the SLX is made from fishing pole blanks, if so he will get fluctuations in wall thickness.
Matt
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Anyone use silicone spray or even WD40 on the sections to reduce wear?
I know guys who use CF fishing poles for 15 years, 2 times a week. They don't wear quickly.
Also Fishing poles are used horizontally and not vertically like we use them.
I am pretty certain that the SLX is made from fishing pole blanks, if so he will get fluctuations in wall thickness.
Matt
I use the Vaseline that came with the pole.
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Hi mates,
We use PTFE spray and the Vaseline from the SL2 kit.
rgrds,
Vadim
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i got a can of PTFE spray from a old window repair contact
i thought i would try and get my fishing pole to last 1 year, i used it once and then lost the can in my old VW T4 van, when i sold the van i found it again, it still doesnt get used
the fishing pole it now over 2 and 1/2 years old, all without the spray
is it really needed ? ? ? ?
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What a brilliant post dai, it sounds like you know your engineering.
The ' defendant' has moved on.
Leaving aside the engineering dai using an SLX is worth at least £2 a day to me if not more.It is probably 'worth' £5 a day to me. I used to use a 17' xtel and a 34' hybrid.Very often i would use step ladders with 17' either to get an angle, or gain height. So a 22' SLX used as an all day pole avoids me having to use steps and many other issues .This is why I say the pole is worth £5 a day to me.
Of course i would like it to last longer, but purely on a cost benefit basis 6 months is okay for me.
This topic has shocked a few of us, because i always thought the tool was billed as designed by a window cleaner for window cleaners. It does sound like david3511 has been properly turned over and topped up.
90% of the time I use the SLX as a 20ft pole and slip on the extra 2 sections as and when I need them, I do love the pole and it has made a huge difference to my working day. When you put it in terms of £2.00 a day it is well worth it.
I think Alex was always on a hiding to nothing when he introduced the SLX. Previously a carbon pole was the preserve of the minted window cleaner and not a pole used all day every day. This minted window cleaner didn't worry too much about section replacement costs.
Alex brought it to the main stream, but a main stream where £500.00 is still alot of money. He also introduced it as a cover all pole, to be used day in day out. He needed a unique selling point and that was weight. There were already loads of heavy CF poles on the market.
However, to reduce weight the walls had to be thinner. Add it all together and you have problems. You have a thin walled, expensive to replace pole used day in and day out (lots of wear) by window cleaners conscious of how much £500.00 is worth to them. I think that is why it stung when I heard the price of 3 sections