Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: JW1 on October 06, 2009, 07:31:56 pm
-
I am about to go for an installed WFP system (can't do it myself, and haven't got any friends) so 500l or 250l?
I am a one man band, average 4-5 hours trad per day mainly residential. Not looking to expand round size.
Will 250 be enough (would save me a chunk of money)
What is your view of a 250l system?
If it's too small for me, who IS is suitable for? I can't imagine many people do less work than I do!!
I know there are 3 and 400l tanks available, but like the Brodex option at present. Although would consider other options.
-
Would depend on payload of your van. IMO opinion go for 500l. Very little price difference in a 500l tank to a 250l tank. If anyone charges you a lot more for this they are simply ripping you off.
-
its beter to be too big than to small
-
Cheers
Brodex system;
500l - £3300 (way too much for me)
250l - Closer to £2000
So I am shopping around
-
Ever thought about DIY..you would save yourself a wodge of cash...
The only complicated part is finding someone to safely fit a cage around your tank to the van.
Cheers
Dave.
-
Cheers
Brodex system;
500l - £3300 (way too much for me)
250l - Closer to £2000
So I am shopping around
Lot of guys on here use Pure Freedom. They would be a lot cheaper.
-
m8 have you tried sureclean systems? they are over in england and also in NI, the NI place is linked to them and thats where i got mine from 350L baffled tank, in a steel frame, with 4040 RO Unit, DI Vessel, all fixtures and fittings, plus hose and reel, 4 section WFP, TDS meter and fitting all for around 2500, its only pence for the different size of tanks and cage, that price you have there seems rough. Google them and see.
-
m8 have you tried sureclean systems? they are over in england and also in NI, the NI place is linked to them and thats where i got mine from 350L baffled tank, in a steel frame, with 4040 RO Unit, DI Vessel, all fixtures and fittings, plus hose and reel, 4 section WFP, TDS meter and fitting all for around 2500, its only pence for the different size of tanks and cage, that price you have there seems rough. Google them and see.
Cheers
I just got off the phone to them, and they were very helpful, will give me a quote by email shortly.
-
Cheers
Brodex system;
500l - £3300 (way too much for me)
250l - Closer to £2000
So I am shopping around
Lot of guys on here use Pure Freedom. They would be a lot cheaper.
Although I am looking at different options, Purefreedom are looking favourite at the moment, based on price and good reports on here.
-
If your van can take the weight I'd definatley go for the 500 litre. I asked on here the same question a few months back and Ian from windowwashers said go for a least 500 litre. I'm so glad I took his advice.
-
Purefreedom have recommended this;
1 x High volume 40 inch Reverse Osmosis System with automatic fill & shutoff.
2 x 20 inch Reverse Osmosis Prefilters
1 x 500 litre Baffled Tank
Full stainless steel securing cage.
2 x 100 psi Pumps & Strainers
2 x Flowmaster Digital Electronic Pump controller, one controller to incorporate a level fill relay and the other to have a built in split load relay wired to the vehicle to provide on board charging.
1 x 100 Ah Deep Cycle Leisure Battery
1 x 18x6" DI vessel complete with Deionisation resin
1 x Professional Metal Hose Reel with 100mtrs of 8mm Microbore Hose.
1 x Handheld Digital TDS Meter
1 x GXTEL 4S Fibre Glass pole c/w brush
1 x GXTEL 20S Fibre Glass pole c/w brush
1 x Protectacote kit to protect the back of the van from water spillage
External Ports for filling and working from the vehicle with it locked
All fixtures and fittings and a professional trouble free installation at our factory in one day, and if required training in the use of water fed poles can be arranged
The cost for the above will be £2422.73 including VAT
Does it sound like a good starter system? They suggest 2 pumps (one for a back-up) even though I am a one man band, is that necessary?
Cost ok? Poles ok?
Any advice gratefully received, cheers
-
you'll have guys tell you you could probably do it cheeper DIY, but for the hassle you save yourself that looks a good deal
-
i would only have the one man setup, you can always get a backpack for around the same price as a pump.
-
i would only have the one man setup, you can always get a backpack for around the same price as a pump.
Forgot to add this note;
We also spoke about a 25lt Trolley and if bought at the same the total would become £2897.73 including VAT
-
Jon,
You can get a great 35 Litre trolley from omnipole for £246.10 Delivered, I would opt for that instead also knocking off the second pump as in an emergency you could get by with connecting the trolley to your system for the couple of days it would take for a new pump to arrive!
Also sorry I don't understand what those 2 poles are can you tell me the lengths!
Regards
Al
-
Thanks for the advice Al. The poles are a 4ft and a 20 ft.
-
Jon,
Find out what your being charged for the 2 poles combined and if your budget would stretch to it swap them for a SLX-25ft carbon pole which would cost you around £400 ready to work.
Failing that as I know it can be very expensive putting all this together just dump the 4ft pole as its completely useless and you'll never use it!
Just to give you something else to think about, in my opinion if you have a garage I would set up your RO system in there and have the van as a pure water delivery system
Al
-
That's good advice about the 4ft pole, cheers. Please can you tell me what the advantages of setting up the system in the garage are as I have not explored it as an option. All together I really don't want to spend more than 2k, think 400l per day should be enough and want a really easy to use system.
-
Jon,
Find out what your being charged for the 2 poles combined and if your budget would stretch to it swap them for a SLX-25ft carbon pole which would cost you around £400 ready to work.
Failing that as I know it can be very expensive putting all this together just dump the 4ft pole as its completely useless and you'll never use it!
Just to give you something else to think about, in my opinion if you have a garage I would set up your RO system in there and have the van as a pure water delivery system
Al
I dont think he will be cleaning downstairs with a 25 ft slx will he ? whats the closed length on that??
-
5'3 just checked :)
IS that ok for bottoms?
-
Sean,
I'm sure there are going to be different opinions on this but I dont think he'll have any problems cleaning downstairs at 5'3", we've used 6' poles in the past and the only time if gets difficult is down the tight sides of conservatories but we just cleaned them side on.
Jon,
I really don't know your situation or your water TDS but you could buy a second hand 1000 litre IBC and set up the RO (from Purefreedom or elsewhere) in your garage meaning you don't have to leave your van hooked up to the mains overnight you can just leave the garage system producing water while your at work and transfer it via a cheap submersible pump
-
I have a little 4ft that extends to 7ft that I use on bungalows.
It cost £40 ready to go.
Matt
-
I'm assuming that my TDS level is fairly high, although I haven't checked it yet. I live in northants. I had been told that of I only use 400l on my own during the 5 hours I work (including travelling) I could fill the tank in around 5 hours (4pm til 9pm?)
I thought I would be ok keeping all the kit in the van?
-
John I have a 500GPD RO with a 350ltr tank which is all located in the van.
The only time I see the use of an IBC tank is if you have more than one van to fill or you are that busy you go through water like its going out of fashion.
Matt
-
Jon,
It would be OK to leave it in your van & if you only use it for work its probably your best option.
Matt,
We do fall into that category so probably why I prefer it ;)
-
Al I am hoping to take someone on in the new year with a second van, so I would be getting an IBC tank, why pay for 2 RO systems when one can supply 2 vans ;) ;D
Only snag is, I have nowhere to put the dam thing lol, we have 3 sheds in the back garden 2 of them are full to the brim with house stuff and tumble dryer, the 3rd has now been turned into an office.
I live in a mid terraced house, I couldn't even put a sub terrain IBC tank in the back.
Matt
-
After around a month of Reading and writing threads for and against wfp, discussing van and system options, finding suppliers, getting quotes, working out requirements, preparing how to educate customers and realising that the end result for a large number of my jobs mat not be cleaner or quicker I am left scratching my head.
Especially as I had a really good day today with my bucket, ladder and blade.
No TDS reading, tank filling, resin an batttery managing, hose uncoiling or customer dissatisfaction. Perhaps I'll end up keeping my £2500 until a more simple solution presents itself.
I really want to be off the ladders for safety reasons, but not if it brings me a world of stress.
-
Jon I have a lot less stress with WFP, I have only had one person cancel on me and that was because the windows were left wet and the water had dripped down the walls of her house. that is the norm with WFP.
I asked her what does she do when it rains, put up a huge brollie? ;D
one thing I would say Jon is what if you fell off your ladders?
how much income would you lose?
the vast majority of poeple don't care how the windows are cleaned as long as they are clean.
Also a selling point I make is that fact that after the windows have been cleaned the subsequent rain showers will dry spottless.
Matt
-
I have a little 4ft that extends to 7ft that I use on bungalows.
It cost £40 ready to go.
Matt
Matt, what make and where from
-
I have a little 4ft that extends to 7ft that I use on bungalows.
It cost £40 ready to go.
Matt
Matt, what make and where from
Polarbrite.
Tell Craig I sent you lol
-
Sorry Jon,
I didnt mean to add to your confusion, just go with the purefreedom set up they have offered you minus the 4ft pole and the extra pump.
When your on your 3rd and 4th cleans you'll be wondering why you didn't do it sooner
-
thats fine i just wondered as n=my brodex 27 ft is a pig when closed, its about 7 fott lol so just spoke before i checked facts :)
-
Sorry Jon,
I didnt mean to add to your confusion, just go with the purefreedom set up they have offered you minus the 4ft pole and the extra pump.
When your on your 3rd and 4th cleans you'll be wondering why you didn't do it sooner
Cheers again Al, I have taken your advice and will await revised price from Purefreedom.
I know I will be WFP eventually (maybe in the next few weeks) so I may as well bite the bullet...
... It didn't help reading this thread today either; http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=82274.0;all
-
Sorry Jon,
I didnt mean to add to your confusion, just go with the purefreedom set up they have offered you minus the 4ft pole and the extra pump.
When your on your 3rd and 4th cleans you'll be wondering why you didn't do it sooner
Cheers again Al, I have taken your advice and will await revised price from Purefreedom.
I know I will be WFP eventually (maybe in the next few weeks) so I may as well bite the bullet...
... It didn't help reading this thread today either; http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=82274.0;all
Jon I have been WFP for best part of this year and encountered bird muck.
What I do is give the muck a good soaking first, you have to let it rehydrate then brush away.
I have never had a problem with the muck re-appearing once the window has dried.
Matt
-
if you are in a rush unger make a scraper that can attach to an extension pole.
Matt
-
Oops, just read back and realised I got my Matts and Als mixed up a couple of times :-[
-
On a separate issue, I live in the sticks and I am not on mains drainage. The ony drain hole I have is by the back door, and I think it takes the waste across the back garden to a soak away somewhere.
Could I have a problem with the waste water? Van system at front of house, drain hole 50ft away at back and only to a soak away?
-
You could always fit a hose to your waste pipe.
-
I'm not entirely sure that the soak away could take 5 hours of waste water a day
-
You could go for a DI only option so waste water and water pressure would not be a problem. Could cost you £100 a month plus though, unless your water supply has a low tds (not many of us are that lucky though). May well pay you to check your water tds before proceeding.
-
Is there not a rhine or ditch you can hose your waste into or near to the road gutter?
-
No, the road level at the front is raised from my house/garden. No ditches nearby either.
As an approximate guide, if my TDS level was average for a hard water area, how much waste should I expect to produce to fill a 500l tank?
I know there are lots of variables like water pressure etc but am I to expect to make waste at a ratio of 1:1? (Ie waste 500l to make 500l) or 10:1 or somewhere inbetween?
I'm not sure how happy I'll be having the tap turned on full for 5 hours wasting hundreds of litres of water every day into the septic tank and soak away.
-
Hi
The water is very hard in Reading isn't it, so you may also have to consider a water softner before the RO unit.
Spruce
-
I don't really have the signs of VERY hard water (in kettle, dishwasher etc) so I would hope it's higher than average at worse.
I'm roughly between Northampton and Oxford.
At the moment, I must admit, after nearly placing my order at the weekend, I am now having second thoughts as it all sounds like too much hassle for me.
Maybe the technology isn't quite there yet.
-
Jon, Jon, Jon ... slow down. Let's start again.
What vehicle do you have now? Why do you "only" work 4/5 hrs a day and how many days a week? Do you see that changing?
-
Ok.... I've taken a deep breath.... calm again
I now have a 56 plate Expert with 815Kg payload (virtually all of which is unused!)
I work 4-5 hours a day because after years in a high-pressured work environment I decided that I would have a slower pace of life and no longer just chase the dollar.
I usaully try to work Mon-Fri but often lose a day due to weather.
I am really happy with my round of about 150 customers, I do a thorough job and in any work I have done I have tried to never leave room for improvement. This may mean that I am slower than I could be, but I always know I am leaving behind good work and satisfied customers.
I am not looking to work more hours, but would take on more work to fill the time saved if I go WFP (assuming it will be quicker)
I like working alone.
I am not very practical (so I won't be modding filters , poles or pumps etc)
I like a simple, stress-free existance.
My main desire is to get off the ladders, as although I am careful and not clumsy, I do not want to tempt fate any longer.
I can comfortably afford a system, but I don't want to spend more than £2500, and most of all I want it to offer me a reliable, functional and simple solution to getting my feet back on the ground.
-
I don't blame you wanting to get off ladders but you're saying you want a stress-free existance.
I have found converting to wfp very stressfull. So be prepared. There's so many more things that can now go wrong. Not like before.
Having said that I believe wfp is definatley the way to go. You need to keep doing your research like you are and keep asking questions.
Is there nobody local you can talk to about their setup?
-
OK; I would get a 400L tank and an RO that will produce 400L of pure overnight. Then if you decide that you want tomorrow off by working through for more hours today you can. Or if you want a couple of steady days you'll go home with about 100/150L on day one and top up on day two. Flexibility see? And in an Expert you'll have loads of room.
In 4/5 hrs as a conscientious wfp worker on domestics I reckon you will use 250L tops. I get through 400L on domestics if I work brisky for 7 hours or steadily for 8.
Sometimes folk want to start their custies off by wfp tops and trad bottoms, in which case you'll not use more than 200L in a day - but you'll be slower than all wfp.
Just because you have a 400L tank doesn't mean you have to have a faster producing RO. My RO-man type started as a 200gpd and I 've added a membrane to make it a 300gpd. I carry no resin on board and my water goes into the tank at zero TDS.
Oh yeah, on the soakaway taking the waste - lets say you use 250L pure on average per day - that means you will have waste of about 500L per day. If that goes to soakaway I cannot see a problem as it will dribble over a 12 hour period and so only about 40 litres (9 gallons) an hour. Or just run your waste hose a bit further away.
-
That's good advice about the 4ft pole, cheers. Please can you tell me what the advantages of setting up the system in the garage are as I have not explored it as an option. All together I really don't want to spend more than 2k, think 400l per day should be enough and want a really easy to use system.
I don't agree about the 4 ft pole.
Although my SLX collapsed will do nearly all ground floor work, I do have some jobs where the space is very tight and a 4ft (2 x 2ft) pole is ideal. Even if you don't get one just yet, you will probably want to add it later.
-
r u on a water meter
i have a small system that i set up as i as wasnt sure weather i wanted to go wfp and mine cost about 500, i use a di, 125 litre tank, poles, pumps, batterys, hose, reel brush and pipes and connections i needed. when i was using the 125 litre i was getting about 6 houses a day out of it,
get a tds and check ur water,
dont think that you ahve to spend 0000s on a system
-
I am not on a meter, but may have a drainage problem.
I think I would need to buy a system and have it installed, as I have virtually zero practical skills.
Although a £500 tryout appeals, I am more a poo or bust type, so would be all or nothing, but thanks for the advice anyway.
-
OK; I would get a 400L tank and an RO that will produce 400L of pure overnight. Then if you decide that you want tomorrow off by working through for more hours today you can. Or if you want a couple of steady days you'll go home with about 100/150L on day one and top up on day two. Flexibility see? And in an Expert you'll have loads of room.
In 4/5 hrs as a conscientious wfp worker on domestics I reckon you will use 250L tops. I get through 400L on domestics if I work brisky for 7 hours or steadily for 8.
Sometimes folk want to start their custies off by wfp tops and trad bottoms, in which case you'll not use more than 200L in a day - but you'll be slower than all wfp.
Just because you have a 400L tank doesn't mean you have to have a faster producing RO. My RO-man type started as a 200gpd and I 've added a membrane to make it a 300gpd. I carry no resin on board and my water goes into the tank at zero TDS.
Oh yeah, on the soakaway taking the waste - lets say you use 250L pure on average per day - that means you will have waste of about 500L per day. If that goes to soakaway I cannot see a problem as it will dribble over a 12 hour period and so only about 40 litres (9 gallons) an hour. Or just run your waste hose a bit further away.
Better 500 litres, best to err on side of caution and should be OK with your payload. Best to come home with 100l water than to run out.
-
Think I'm gonna wait a while, have a re-think in the spring.
I'm not convinced It's for me at the moment.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to offer advice.
-
jon wy not just get a backpack for now . to get the feel of things .wcw backpack £100 .trolley £20 = £120 .plus water system .i use just backpack . n its the dogs taters.
-
John if you have the money to spend, then getting that pure freedom setup will sort you out for years. Right from the start.
Having a wfp aetup will open up a whole new world of possibilities for you. If you can afford it, buy it and be done. That is the most stress free option.
Good luck with whatevr you do.