Clean It Up
UK Window Cleaning Forum => Window Cleaning Forum => Topic started by: welshwindows on September 26, 2009, 05:54:33 pm
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ok so im going to take the plunge and take on my first member of staff, how much do you guys pay your staff????
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start with minimum wage :)
is it paye?? have a look at some job ads in your area... also work out what your costs employing will be, if you cant afford minimum its not time to employ, if you can then work out what you want to earn from them and give them the rest :)
I reckon somewhere around the £7 ph mark is good give or take 50 p , or a commision if they are really good!!
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how did you do it? bring them on to your round so go through the roundtwice as fast or get another van and work seperately on 2 rounds?
whats PAYE? ive not looked in to it yet atall. so if i pay 7.50 an hour and expect to get about 3-4 quid from them myself = 11 quid how much money should i be taking in as turnover per hour? im averaging about 18-19quid at the moment,would this give me my 3-4quid an hour after all expenses (tax,NI,insurance, pension)???
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for the basics http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/intro/index.htm for getting started with employment
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I would go for a lower rate of pay but top it up with a bonus for jobs done per day, and if he does a full week.
I had a lad work for me who did not like Mondays, but he called in sick one Monday too many and is now working for himself.
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I agree with lower wage and bonuses. say you employ 30 hr at £6 hr,thats £180 a week. then work in target related bonuses, takes him to £300 if all targets reached. advantage you pay a decent working wage, but come holiday time you only need to find £180 that week, and they have no incentive to go on the sick
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what type of targets do you use?
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bonus for jobs done per day
That is for jobs done without complaints. If you give someone say £10 per hour they will not work as efficiant for you as they would if you only gave them £7 per hour plus a bonus for ammount done per day
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I also pay my lads for work they pick up.
ie: if 1 of my lads picks a job up , anything from £4.00 - £400.00 they get that on top of their weekly wage.
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what type of targets do you use?
Because you have someone working for you dont think you will get twice the ammount of work done per day.
I found that I got around 40% more work done .
You need to sort out how many jobs you do per day now, then add how much you will be paying out, plus a profit for yourself for employing him then you know how many jobs you need to do per day
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ok so im probably going through an average of 25houses a day, so you rekon with another person on board we could go through another 10?
the other problem im having is because im only 17 im worried of staff ending up stealing some of my round. any ideas on safeguarding the work for myself?????
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I also pay my lads for work they pick up.
ie: if 1 of my lads picks a job up , anything from £4.00 - £400.00 they get that on top of their weekly wage.
how much of the work found do you give the employer??
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the other problem im having is because im only 17 im worried of staff ending up stealing some of my round.
You cant, but if you are working along side them there should be no problems.
how much of the work found do you give the employer??
I would give them the price of 1 clean.
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I would go and get some professional advice from the CAB or the local business center.
Many on here have no more experience than you do in what is involved in employing.
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I would go and get some professional advice from the CAB or the local business center.
Many on here have no more experience than you do in what is involved in employing.
Good advice but some have actually employed staff
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cheers sunshine cleaning,im currently looking in to that. im hoping if theres any decent grants then i might be able to move to water fed pole system rather than traditional methods.
mr t what happens when its time to take on a second,third and forth member of staff. surely we dont all work together?
has anyone got any ideas on safeguarding work? i work the domestic market,any of you take out contracts with domestic dwellings????
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When you do take on more staff and need another van you should have built up trust with the person you started out with . Let him run the second van and pay him a bit more for the extra work .
I have never had any contracts with customers if a domestic customer wants to cancel they will .
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thank you,thats what ill do,sounds like a good idea. mr t you aint no fool!!!!
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The fist lad I took on I was too good to him. I was soft and treated him like a mate and not someone who worked for me . Dont make that mistake. Make sure you let them know exatcly what there duties are.
;)
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back to the 40% extra work thing, im currently averaging about 150 quid a day so with another person on board we could make another 60 quid = 210
if i pay 6.50 working a 8 hour day thats 52 quid, without taking into consideration the insurance/ NI/ TAX and these bonuses thats 8 quid extra per day. hardly seems worth it.
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back to the 40% extra work thing, im currently averaging about 150 quid a day so with another person on board we could make another 60 quid = 210
if i pay 6.50 working a 8 hour day thats 52 quid, without taking into consideration the insurance/ NI/ TAX and these bonuses thats 8 quid extra per day. hardly seems worth it.
technically you should also have your extra insurance to pay for too, public liability, employers insurance which is mandatory. You should also ensure your employees are fully trained for use with ladders as if there is an accident your insurance may not pay out.
welshwindows what part of wales you from?
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other way to go, don't take anyone on just now. at 17 why not stick with what you have now, max out what you can do just now. get some money under your bed and a couple of years with this round. then expand, put the new boy on your current round, the trust you will have with your customers will safeguard the work as much as it can be safeguarded. then start again on the growth of the next round ;)
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sticking to what im doing now is pretty much not an option, im maxed out and still hungry for more £££££££! im just unsure of how to take the next step.
it sounds like the only way is to invest in another van and work seperatly,that way instead of earning a turnover of 150 a day it would be 300, after the emploees wages/insurance(national,van,emploers and public liability) surely there would be atleast 30-40quid for my pocket off the employees work???
would me switching to water fed poles mean faster work therefor be able to make that 30-40quid by myself though? and if so what happens when your maxed out on work with wfp?
what im asking is is window cleaning an expandable business???
im from north wales (anglesey area) soon to be nationwide the way im talking tho!!!!!
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wfp will be quicker when you get up to speed. realistically you would be looking at 3 months to 6, to get up to speed and sort your technique, so yes you could increase your income alone.
what is the point of your business, do you have a long term goal.
eg. for me the goal is to spend more time with my family and make sure there is plenty of food on the table. i have a target, the window cleaning is a means to an end.
hope that makes sense. ;)
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ye its very usefull. i think the point of my business is to eventually make money off other people so that when it does come time to have a family etc il have the time. if that makes sense.
ive found out and proved to some extent that its more than possible to make an awesome living from window cleaning. all im trying to figure out is if theres more money to be made? just cant seem to make it work with my sums
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If you're earning enough to need staff then you should be earning enough to be able to afford to invest in WFP. That's the way I would go without doubt. After a little while you'll be working quicker and doing five days trad work in four days giving you a day to fill with yet more work.
Now you just go out and canvass more and more work which would enable you to employ.
My one big bit of advice would be to invest in the largest size tank you can afford when fitting WFP so that it'll hold enough water to let two people work all day. If you have a smaller tank fitted, enough for just you, you'll need to upgrade to employ someone. ;D
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try wfp first before you employ 8)
but i find its best to look after your self and your family :)
ps there is a local firm close to me who employ 6 or 8 staff , they are trad only
all of the staff have asked me for a job, as they are so disillusioned with trad
and there boss, for not looking after them :o
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does anyone of you run a business with a fleet of wfp vans?? if so whats the profit made from each employee? thats after all expenses and tax are paid......im talking beer tokens!
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ok theres a firm near me that are difficult to compete with but they have around 40 employees doing domestic mostly. the guys rattle through about £20 per hour, each employee gets paid 6 quid an hour and the rest in expences is roughly another 4 quid so thats 10 quid an hour profit per man x40 = £400 an hour
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cheers sunshine cleaning,im currently looking in to that. im hoping if theres any decent grants then i might be able to move to water fed pole system rather than traditional methods.
mr t what happens when its time to take on a second,third and forth member of staff. surely we dont all work together?
has anyone got any ideas on safeguarding work? i work the domestic market,any of you take out contracts with domestic dwellings????
I would speak to business link, you have your age on your sde there with grants ect.
call them it costs nothing, they come and see you all it costs is our time and you may just learn a thing or 2, staff are a nightmare at times but to earn more you need them ;)
Good on you by the way I wish I did the same at 17 I would not be working now not that I work that much these days ::)
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welsh windows.
i was in practically the same position you are up to 4 months ago. im 23 have a full round and was unsure witch way to go. i ended up buying wfp system rather than employing someone.
i have now compacted my round down from 5 weeks worth of work to 3. the other two weeks i spend delivering leaflets and advertising. i am now planning on generating enough work to get the wfp working for me full time, then i will get someone else (proably my dad) to come and operate the system full time for me.
if i pay him £100 a day i will still be making a very good profit out of him. with him doing this i will start a new round that i will work myself. i will then repeat this this system with someone else taking over the new round etc etc.
best of luck
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I would go and get some professional advice from the CAB or the local business center.
Many on here have no more experience than you do in what is involved in employing.
Good advice but some have actually employed staff
That may well be true, but the majority on here that have someone work with them do so on a subbing basis which is not strictly correct. Employment means paying PAYE, the employers contribution, holiday pay worked out on an average of the previous 12 weeks, having the necessary employers liability and all the other paperwork that goes with it. Not to say a contract of what is expected from the staff.
Simply getting a lad and paying him £7 ph and thinking your responsibilities have ended there just does not work.
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thanks lads,all very helpfull honestly. i understand that taking on staff is a bit of a ball ache,but it must be done to build a better future for myself aswell as the company. i take it subbing means sort of employing a self employed lad? therefore he or she would have to sort out their own ball ache stuff?
rich fraser if you were at this sticking point 4 months ago,whats your round like now? have you managed to fill in that 2 weeks youve gained?
stu mac that was very helpfull, 10quid an hour from each staff member far exceeded any of my sums and calculations. wehn you say this firm is hard to compete with is it cos theyre cheap? or because they pretty much cover the whole of your area? i take it they are wfp guys not trad method?
thank you all for your help
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i have just come out of paye and i found if you pay good you get good workers when i was on rubbish money i hated it, going rate down south 10-15 pound per hour... and your get good guys who do good work reading the posts on how much to pay its funnie when people come out with 6-7 pound per hour regards carl
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prices in north wales are quite different to down south im guessing. either that or the emploeyrs only making a couple of quid per hour from each staff member.
the guy ive lined up for the post is a big prop foreward dow our local rugby team so paying in biscuits is certainly unfeesable. nice idea tho ewan!!!!
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sounds like you'll have to move on to the cake pay scale if he's a big lad ;D ;D ;D
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i have just come out of paye and i found if you pay good you get good workers when i was on rubbish money i hated it, going rate down south 10-15 pound per hour... and your get good guys who do good work reading the posts on how much to pay its funnie when people come out with 6-7 pound per hour regards carl
depends where you are in the country mate, employed plumbers and sparks up here(north) are lucky to be on 15.00 ph cards in, let alone windys
£7+ is a good rate, and i know companies down south that get good staff at simlar price, nott everyone has a huge mortgage big car crazy outgoings etc, they live within there means and are happy doing so, the govt sets the minimum rate you can legally get workers for, anything above that you are doing well imho
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id still be interested to hear from any of you that employ staff,how are the figures looking?
i was perfectly happy with my one man band untill i went on holiday and thought this is the life. ever since im like duncan bannatyne,i just want more!!!!!
its official im obsessed!
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yes on the whole probably averaging about 20quid an hour, how much do rekon i should be taking in then?
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i am not knocking your hourly rate mate sometimes i do more but on the whole i am probably the same as you. if you want cheap staff employ young the minimum wage for a seventeen year old is just 3.51 an hour. in regards to the company round my way they are trad and cheap and do just about every estate in the area. not very well though and i pick up loads of work from them but i get the fussy customers who will not put up with the standards they provide
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cheers for that stu, being a seventeen year old myself there is no way a lad of my age will settle for 3.51 an hour. also i rekon young lads would be harder to hold on to,theyd just jump at the next job that offers a few pennies more.
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ok so im going to take the plunge and take on my first member of staff, how much do you guys pay your staff????
You could try and pay in biscuits!
Your basic biscuit for trainees, Rich Tea or Ginger nut etc
After training: Custard cream, bourbon biscuits
6 months later: Chocolate digestives or Hobnobs
1 year: Let them choose the biscuit of there choice.
;D
You always seem to talk with a mouth full of biscuits so maybe that s what you get paid in
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;D ;D ;D
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cheers for that stu, being a seventeen year old myself there is no way a lad of my age will settle for 3.51 an hour. also i rekon young lads would be harder to hold on to,theyd just jump at the next job that offers a few pennies more.
yep know what you mean unemployment is high round my way and the 3.51 is just till they are up to speed with the right bonus scheme etc they then get more.
if you check with business link/your local council there may be schemes that dont cost you money
ive got a lad wages paid by the council for 6 months and as many courses paid for as i can get him through and they supply all his workwear and ppe
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Similar schemes here Stu, best to check out all options before just employing and trying to run at full speed.
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WelshWindows, if you dont mind me asking, how much does your insurance company sting a 17 year old for van insurance?
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A good rule of thumb is busuness cycles and this is use in many business that have labour as there main out going is to pay not more than 30% of there hourly rate thats income to staff.So the ration is 30% to staff costs, 33% to expences ( not including wages) and the rest to profit which equates to 37% You would also get that hourly rate if you are actively doing the work.Profit is a return on investment and being in business.
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sounds like you'll have to move on to the cake pay scale if he's a big lad ;D ;D ;D
Not tried cake scale, got any more info?
Welshwindows if you are averaging £18-19ph I wouldn’t take on any staff based on those figures. But if you have a plan good luck to you.
Many businesses employ on much less, contract cleaning for instance... there are ways of spreading the cost of overheads, and making money by volume rather than highly inflated prices, contract cleaners would kill for margins like that and there costs are sometimes much more than wc
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WelshWindows, if you dont mind me asking, how much does your insurance company sting a 17 year old for van insurance?
im working out of a clapped out escort van and managed to get the insurance down to 600 quid third party cover. hopefully moving up to a vivarotype van soon for wfp so insurance quotes should be interesting!
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yes on the whole probably averaging about 20quid an hour, how much do rekon i should be taking in then?
Depends on how many hours of work do you have or intend to have.
What you decide to pay staff, how much it cost you to operate, how much you will need to expand and how much net profit you will be happy with.
Find out what your local competition at this level are charging.
How many "levels" has that SIMS business simulator programme have, that you use? He should just find out what other firms pay, and go from there?. Has your SIMS programme crashed, or which part of the tip should he follow? The first 2 lines , or the last line you typed? They contradict eachother, as they usually do when you give more than one line of brilliant advice. ???
Let's face it, the guy has done really well so far on his own, that means without taking any advice off anyone who hasn't got a proven track record.